Wichita State post game thread

[Zlinedavid]

1 minute ago, madmax said:

They also have a fantastic coach who has had the time to fully emplace his system. I think they will be perennially good for a long time, at least as long as Bennett is there. I also think he is going to break through to the final 4 this year.

The only downside is that they're in the murderer's row of conferences.

[Zlinedavid]

42 minutes ago, JWoolsey said:

I'm feeling really humbled with the making the right gut call line too because that's the ultimate end game. Strong. Very strong

This is my favorite example of how to apply statistics, and is a completely true story.  During WW2, the US Army Air Corps dispatched a team of engineers to determine where they should reinforce the armor on planes to keep them from being shot down.  So they began combing the flight lines, looking at every plane, recording every mark and bullet hole they could find.  They recorded the general and specific area of each hit, and mapped out the likelihood of where a bullet would hit based on those planes. 

And then they added armor to all the areas that showed nearly zero bullet strikes. 

A mechanic reminded them as they were recording one plane's bullet strikes "You know you're only looking at the planes that made it back, right?"

[JWoolsey]

14 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

This is my favorite example of how to apply statistics, and is a completely true story.  During WW2, the US Army Air Corps dispatched a team of engineers to determine where they should reinforce the armor on planes to keep them from being shot down.  So they began combing the flight lines, looking at every plane, recording every mark and bullet hole they could find.  They recorded the general and specific area of each hit, and mapped out the likelihood of where a bullet would hit based on those planes. 

And then they added armor to all the areas that showed nearly zero bullet strikes. 

A mechanic reminded them as they were recording one plane's bullet strikes "You know you're only looking at the planes that made it back, right?"

You should run for office.

Looking forward to more interactions 🙂 

[Zlinedavid]

Just now, JWoolsey said:

You should run for office.

I have higher moral standards than that. 

[Long Duk Dong]

1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said:

All the reasons why we (or likely anyone else) wasn't getting Marshall last year, this year or anytime soon are below:

 

Tried.  No amount of money was going to pry him from the NBA. 

 

A) There's still some lingering bad blood between the Bennett family and Indiana over the firing of Tony's sister Kathi. 
B) You'd complain that we just hired the only coach to ever lose to a 16 seed.

 

Find an IU benefactor with a net worth even approaching the Koch brothers and you can make this claim.  And just as a reminder of the scale you're up against, their combined net worth is 25X that of Mark Cuban.  Marshall's salary is a rounding error to them. 

 

I think what you mean to say is that you're ashamed of the state of IU men's basketball.  Last I checked, women's basketball is as competitive as they've ever been.  Men's soccer is coming off of a B10 title, and back to back College Cup appearances.  We have probably the most dominant women's swimmer on the planet at the moment.  Baseball has made the NCAA tournament in 6 out of the past 7 years, with one CWS appearance and 2 conference titles. 

Now, while YOU may be ashamed of IU basketball at the moment, I'm not.  Why? Because I can draw a clear, distinct line between "not entirely happy" and "ashamed".  Now, 11 years ago, I was ashamed of IU basketball.  Today, not entirely happy, but I can also respect a clean program with a coach that appears to be putting his all into it.  That gets me well past the threshold of "ashamed". 

Any other brilliant insights you'd like to offer now, Nostradongus?

Excuses excuses. Our basketball and football programs deserve fans like you. Winners get it done.

You can be proud of men's soccer and women's swimming. That's sweet. Basketball and football are disasters and have been forever.

I can respect a clean program too.  I created a thread days ago that we should be like Villanova, Michigan, MSU. Virginia as well. I believe they are pretty clean.

There is no way on Earth that Tennessee should have a better program than Indiana. But they do. Their AD, like so many others, made a better hire than Glass did. It was lazy and cheap.

 

[Zlinedavid]

4 hours ago, Long Duk Dong said:

Excuses excuses. Our basketball and football programs deserve fans like you. Winners get it done.

You can be proud of men's soccer and women's swimming. That's sweet. Basketball and football are disasters and have been forever.

I can respect a clean program too.  I created a thread days ago that we should be like Villanova, Michigan, MSU. Virginia as well. I believe they are pretty clean.

There is no way on Earth that Tennessee should have a better program than Indiana. But they do. Their AD, like so many others, made a better hire than Glass did. It was lazy and cheap.

 

Oooh, did I hit a nerve Dongy? Getting a little chapped in the posterior because there's a legitimate reason as to why each of the non-"lazy and cheap" coaches you drool over would not have come to Indiana?

"Winners get it done." OK Mr Winner. How would you have convinced Donovan, Marshall or Bennett? Explain in step by step explanations how you think those situations should have been handled. And "Winners get it done", doesn't count. Translation of that statement is: "I really really want this, but I don't know how I would make it happen either. I'll complain about it nonetheless." The reality you need to wake up to is that throwing a ton of money at someone still might not get them to do what you want.

And there's no way in hell you can convince me that in 2015, you would have claimed that Rick Barnes was an outstanding hire. Hell, in 2015, Crean had a better record over the preceeding 4 years than Barnes. The same things you said about Crean at the time applied equally to Barnes. Oh, and FYI, Barnes at Tennessee was under .500 with no postseason appearances after 2 seasons. You'd be doing the same thing you're doing right now: complaining that it's not good enough for you, because you're a winner and you'd "get it done".

So tell me. I'm listening. How do you convince someone that is already making millions that says they don't want the job you're offering at any price? You're a "winner". Get it done. Convince me.
Then, now that Bennett, Barnes, Donovan and Marshall are off the table, who would your next non-"lazy and cheap" candidate be?

 

[Parakeet Jones]

I was at the game so I didn’t see it on TV. Could someone tell me what Dakich had to say last night please?  I’m curious. 

[Madison22]

7 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

This is my favorite example of how to apply statistics, and is a completely true story.  During WW2, the US Army Air Corps dispatched a team of engineers to determine where they should reinforce the armor on planes to keep them from being shot down.  So they began combing the flight lines, looking at every plane, recording every mark and bullet hole they could find.  They recorded the general and specific area of each hit, and mapped out the likelihood of where a bullet would hit based on those planes. 

And then they added armor to all the areas that showed nearly zero bullet strikes. 

A mechanic reminded them as they were recording one plane's bullet strikes "You know you're only looking at the planes that made it back, right?"

Short background on this story, plus how how praise and punishment of players may cause misleading conclusions.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/09/counterintuitive-world/

[NotIThatLives]

10 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

It's just a perfect fit for both parties.  He's a very smart hard nosed no nonsense coach who IU fans expect in their coach.  And Indiana produces those gym rat kids like Leal and Gollaway in spades.  He would work wonders with players like that.  Just a perfect fit for both parties.  If IU is willing to pay $7-8M year they can still land him.

Why would any blue blood have to pay him 2.5 times his current pay?

It's the extremes on this thread that are crazy.  One person days he's top 3, one guy says if he was good he would have a better job.   Truth in the middle and both of you know it, one would think.  His record is amazing, he does more with less.  He has also had decent if not real good offers.  He just loves what he has and who can blame him.  3 million a year in Wichita can buy basically anything you can imagine. 

[Ib4IU]

3 minutes ago, Parakeet Jones said:

I was at the game so I didn’t see it on TV. Could someone tell me what Dakich had to say last night please?  I’m curious. 

I actually thought he was a bit more quiet during last nights broadcast than usual. Kept saying Green was going to be a 15-18 point scorer next year. That may end up happening out of default. Someone has to score the points. 

[dbmhoosier]

2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Why would any blue blood have to pay him 2.5 times his current pay?

It's the extremes on this thread that are crazy.  One person days he's top 3, one guy says if he was good he would have a better job.   Truth in the middle and both of you know it, one would think.  His record is amazing, he does more with less.  He has also had decent if not real good offers.  He just loves what he has and who can blame him.  3 million a year in Wichita can buy basically anything you can imagine. 

He wanted the Texas job.  We would come to IU.  And yes we might get him for less than what I said.  But maybe not.  The Koch brothers don't mess around.

[Zlinedavid]

5 minutes ago, Madison22 said:

Short background on this story, plus how how praise and punishment of players may cause misleading conclusions.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/09/counterintuitive-world/

I've always heard it told as USAAC, but RAF makes sense too. I'm sure it's one of those anecdotes that has evolved over time.

And to simplify it even further, one of the oldest mantras in statistics: corellation does not mean causation.

[IU Scott]

9 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

I'd actually disagree with a lot of the above two statements.  Basketball is a basic game.  Don't make things overly complicated.  Play basic but nuanced.  Don't have to be straight out of the textbook, but you don't have to reinvent the wheel either.

And whoever succeeds K at Duke will have a tall order, but I think Marshall would be a great candidate.  Smart at Texas is the perfect counter-example.  "Young", "innovative", "different".  Sounds like what you're describing above.  Hasn't exactly worked so far.  Because it's basic, Marshall's style is portable.  It would work well anywhere. 

Exactly, some want to make it more complicated than it really is by using metrics.

[rogue3542]

Wichita State won because they shot 29 threes and hit 11, while we shot 18 and hit 6.

In modern college basketball, we have to have shooters, and we have to shoot more threes.

[IU Scott]

8 hours ago, Long Duk Dong said:

Because we are too cheap to hire the best and brightest coaches.

The administration simply does not want to win anymore. 

Indiana is done and they are fine with tgat.

I am pretty sure Archie is one of the top 10 highest paid coaches in the country so how is that cheap.

[Madison22]

17 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

I've always heard it told as USAAC, but RAF makes sense too. I'm sure it's one of those anecdotes that has evolved over time.

And to simplify it even further, one of the oldest mantras in statistics: corellation does not mean causation.

I bet it was USAAC as well, and that this event occurred in multiple places.  Those engineers were smart independent thinkers. 

[Zlinedavid]

7 minutes ago, rogue3542 said:

Wichita State won because they shot 29 threes and hit 11, while we shot 18 and hit 6.

In modern college basketball, we have to have shooters, and we have to shoot more threes.

No, we have to MAKE more, not just shoot more.

If the points per possession yield is 1/3rd higher, but you're 50% less likely in aggregate to make them, you're not coming out ahead.

Case in point: Crean's teams always had shooters. But when were the 3 most successful years he had? When he had an effective big man.

One aspect isn't going to guarantee success. The key is getting the right balance.

[bluegrassIU]

11 hours ago, hoosier_exotics said:

So a power five top school wouldnt pay him to come?  Hes good at WS, not good enough for a great job. If he was, he would have been bought out and else where, years ago

This is not true. Gregg is in Wichita because that is where he wants to be. He has had plenty of chances to take bigger jobs. He is happy where he is, and he gets paid just as if he were at a big school.

He is good enough, he has had chances, he chooses to stay where he is because he is happy.

[IUFLA]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I am pretty sure Archie is one of the top 10 highest paid coaches in the country so how is that cheap.

Archie is number 10

For all of the gnashing of teeth on here about Archie, I think the goal in the second year of his tenure was to make the NCAA Tournament.

The injuries this team sustained mid-year is a valid excuse for missing the tourney, especially those to De'ron and Rob P. Had we won possibly 1 more likely 2 of the following games, Maryland, 2nd Purdue, either Iowa game, or Ohio St, we WOULD have made the tournament. 

And I also think we'll be ok for next year.

[hoosiertildeath]

Kudos to Coach AM and the Hoosiers players who won three more games this season than last year !!! Despite all of the Youth and all of those (censured ) injuries. ! This off season is going to be very interesting ,imho !

[GoshenFan84]

9 hours ago, Long Duk Dong said:

How about the guy who just kicked our butts at home with 10 newbies? A team that will be excellent next  year while we lose our two best. How about Donovan? Tony Bennett? 

How about offering more money than effing Wichita State does for a head coach to coach at Indiana?

Indiana athletics are absolutely shameful. I'm sorry if you aren't ashamed at the state and culture of IU athletics.

Was the Rivals board down last night? Why are you wasting your time watching something you don't enjoy? Does so much of your emotional well-being rely on 8 18-22 year olds? I'm not happy with the result either, but to say you're ashamed to be an IU fan, why bother watching the game or spending your time on an IU basketball forum talking about it? I recommend you find a new hobby. 

[rico]

22 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

This is not true. Gregg is in Wichita because that is where he wants to be. He has had plenty of chances to take bigger jobs. He is happy where he is, and he gets paid just as if he were at a big school.

He is good enough, he has had chances, he chooses to stay where he is because he is happy.

True.

If the guy is happy and well compensated where he is at there is only one thing that might get him to take another job at the college level.  And that be winning a championship.  And just like Few at Gonzaga, Gregg thinks he can win one at Wichita St.

[Zlinedavid]

25 minutes ago, rico said:

And just like Few at Gonzaga, Gregg thinks he can win one at Wichita St.

And as sad as it makes me to admit this, they've gotten Gonzaga and Wichita closer than we have over the past several years. 

[IU Scott]

29 minutes ago, GoshenFan84 said:

Was the Rivals board down last night? Why are you wasting your time watching something you don't enjoy? Does so much of your emotional well-being rely on 8 18-22 year olds? I'm not happy with the result either, but to say you're ashamed to be an IU fan, why bother watching the game or spending your time on an IU basketball forum talking about it? I recommend you find a new hobby. 

I use to be like some of these guys where losing effected my life but I grew out of it when I was around 25 years old when I had more important things come up in my life.  I still don't like losing and get upset during games but can  move on because I realize it is not that big of a deal.  I have come to a conclusion that some are not happy unless they are miserable and will always look at the negative things in life.  I think some would say a season was a disappointment if we went undefeated all year but lost in the championship game on a last second half court shot

[Zlinedavid]

Just now, IU Scott said:

I use to be like some of these guys where losing effected my life but I grew out of it when I was around 25 years old when I had more important things come up in my life.

Yep.  If we lose, toss back a whiskey, hit the sack, and the sun will be up in the morning. 

Of course, I'm going to toss back a whiskey in celebration if we win too.