Wichita State post game thread

[IU Scott]

Just now, Zlinedavid said:

And as sad as it makes me to admit this, they've gotten Gonzaga and Wichita closer than we have over the past several years. 

I know I always get ripped for this point of view but we as fans need to look in the mirror and take some responsibility for this program.  We have made changes in coaches, AD's and other administration positions but the one constant is the fans.  Maybe how we try to compare every coach to RMK and hold them to that standard is part of the problem.  Maybe it is the vocal minority in this fan base who goes to social media to rip the players and coaches are part of the problem.  maybe it is fans like me who hold on to the past and traditions are part of the problem with the program.

[AxnJxn]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I know I always get ripped for this point of view but we as fans need to look in the mirror and take some responsibility for this program.  We have made changes in coaches, AD's and other administration positions but the one constant is the fans.  Maybe how we try to compare every coach to RMK and hold them to that standard is part of the problem.  Maybe it is the vocal minority in this fan base who goes to social media to rip the players and coaches are part of the problem.  maybe it is fans like me who hold on to the past and traditions are part of the problem with the program.

Sorry, but not buying this. The fans didn't pull the "zero tolerance" nonsense on RMK, they didn't cave to the player's demands and hire Davis, they didn't ignore past transgressions and hire Sampson, and they didn't make Crean forget that defense and valuing the basketball are part of the game. I don't think there's an unreasonable expectation with respect to the fans here. This was once a blue blood program, and that was before RMK showed up, and the resources are there for it to be one again. 

[rogue3542]

1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said:

No, we have to MAKE more, not just shoot more.

If the points per possession yield is 1/3rd higher, but you're 50% less likely in aggregate to make them, you're not coming out ahead.

Case in point: Crean's teams always had shooters. But when were the 3 most successful years he had? When he had an effective big man.

One aspect isn't going to guarantee success. The key is getting the right balance.

Sure, you need two good big men (one as a backup), but you aren't going to make more threes if you don't shoot them to begin with. Our percentage on three was higher last night. If we shoot more, we win. Their threes were killer last night.

After watching a lot of the NCAA tournament this year, I've concluded that shooting the three well is the #1 barometer of success along with good defense as a close second. Do those two things well, and the rest falls into place.

Crean's worst years, aside from the first three, were when our shooting wasn't good. The Noah Vonleh season is a good example.

[FW_Hoosier]

16 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I know I always get ripped for this point of view but we as fans need to look in the mirror and take some responsibility for this program.  We have made changes in coaches, AD's and other administration positions but the one constant is the fans.  Maybe how we try to compare every coach to RMK and hold them to that standard is part of the problem.  Maybe it is the vocal minority in this fan base who goes to social media to rip the players and coaches are part of the problem.  maybe it is fans like me who hold on to the past and traditions are part of the problem with the program.

The fans just packed Assembly Hall for a bunch of meaningless NIT games like it was the Final Four.  So sick of the fans getting blamed for the pathetic state of the program.  The fanbase is literally the only elite aspect of the program left.

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

The fans just packed Assembly Hall for a bunch of meaningless NIT games like it was the Final Four.  So sick of the fans getting blamed for the pathetic state of the program.

Did I say they were the whole blame, no but I feel we are part of the problem.  Also would we have packed the house if the tickets weren't 20 dollars and students get in free.  It allowed a lot of people who never get to go to AH a chance to go so that was part of the reason for the good turnout.

[Zlinedavid]

14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I know I always get ripped for this point of view but we as fans need to look in the mirror and take some responsibility for this program.  We have made changes in coaches, AD's and other administration positions but the one constant is the fans.  Maybe how we try to compare every coach to RMK and hold them to that standard is part of the problem.  Maybe it is the vocal minority in this fan base who goes to social media to rip the players and coaches are part of the problem.  maybe it is fans like me who hold on to the past and traditions are part of the problem with the program.

My comment wasn't meant to be a basis of expectations.  I've never been a fan that says "We absolutely must do X Y and Z  at least every other year or we're a total abject failure and the entire administration should be fired, the roster expelled and hell....impeach the governor for allowing such a travesty to occur at a state institution!!!1!!one!"

My statement was more of a compliment to Few and Marshall, and simply to say, you don't have to be at a blue blood program to contend for a title.  If you're a good coach, you can get the job done anywhere. 

[Zuckerkorn]

21 minutes ago, rogue3542 said:

Sure, you need two good big men (one as a backup), but you aren't going to make more threes if you don't shoot them to begin with. Our percentage on three was higher last night. If we shoot more, we win. Their threes were killer last night.

After watching a lot of the NCAA tournament this year, I've concluded that shooting the three well is the #1 barometer of success along with good defense as a close second. Do those two things well, and the rest falls into place.

Crean's worst years, aside from the first three, were when our shooting wasn't good. The Noah Vonleh season is a good example.

If you can't make 'em, don't shoot 'em.  I recall Knight talking about how you get your best shooters the majority of the shots.  How many times this season did we have players chuck up a 3-point shot and miss badly - effectively a turnover.  Perhaps my biggest complaint has been Archie's acceptance (encouragement?) of letting every player have the green light.  IDK, but maybe it's because we only had 2 players capable of scoring from the post, no mid-range shooting, and opponents didn't respect our shooting and could sag and defend the drive.

A team has to be able to get and make shots from multiple places on the court to be good. Morgan was really our most reliable scoring option, with Romeo a close second and both have likely put on the cream & crimson for the last time.

[dbmhoosier]

1 hour ago, bluegrassIU said:

This is not true. Gregg is in Wichita because that is where he wants to be. He has had plenty of chances to take bigger jobs. He is happy where he is, and he gets paid just as if he were at a big school.

He is good enough, he has had chances, he chooses to stay where he is because he is happy.

Has a top 10 program ever offered him?

[Hoosierhoopster]

35 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Has a top 10 program ever offered him?

IU pursued Marshall, prior to bringing in CAM

[FKIM01]

13 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

IU pursued Marshall, prior to bringing in CAM

Interesting.  That would be news to me.  

[bluegrassIU]

7 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Interesting.  That would be news to me.  

I dont kmow if pursue is the rightt word. Absolutely talked seriously.

[bluegrassIU]

58 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Has a top 10 program ever offered him?

I have amazing contacts inWichita, none at IU. Lol

My boss is a personal friend of Gregg. Let's just say he has been pursued by some big programs. Top 10? Can not say exactly.

He absolutely loves Wichita. IU was one of the few he even entertained talking to.

I know we all hear 'sources". But trust I know Wichita. I actually had dinner with him and his wife (with my boss and his wife). They are that close.

My boss is on boards as WSU. They are a big deal in Wichita, and very close to the program.

So I am not bringing any "guessing" or rumors when it come to Wichita state.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, bluegrassIU said:

I have amazing contacts inWichita, none at IU. Lol

My boss is a personal friend of Gregg. Let's just say he has been pursued by some big programs. Top 10? Can not say exactly.

He absolutely loves Wichita. IU was one of the few he even entertained talking to.

I know we all hear 'sources". But trust I know Wichita. I actually had dinner with him and his wife (with my boss and his wife). They are that close.

My boss is on boards as WSU. They are a big deal in Wichita, and very close to the program.

So I am not bringing any "guessing" or rumors when it come to Wichita state.

He sure was my #1 choice and would have loved to have him at IU but it didn't happen so we need to back Archie

[Billingsley99]

16 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

I have amazing contacts inWichita, none at IU. Lol

My boss is a personal friend of Gregg. Let's just say he has been pursued by some big programs. Top 10? Can not say exactly.

He absolutely loves Wichita. IU was one of the few he even entertained talking to.

I know we all hear 'sources". But trust I know Wichita. I actually had dinner with him and his wife (with my boss and his wife). They are that close.

My boss is on boards as WSU. They are a big deal in Wichita, and very close to the program.

So I am not bringing any "guessing" or rumors when it come to Wichita state.

I like hearing this type of connection and stories. 

[BobSaccamanno]

23 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

I have amazing contacts inWichita, none at IU. Lol

My boss is a personal friend of Gregg. Let's just say he has been pursued by some big programs. Top 10? Can not say exactly.

He absolutely loves Wichita. IU was one of the few he even entertained talking to.

I know we all hear 'sources". But trust I know Wichita. I actually had dinner with him and his wife (with my boss and his wife). They are that close.

My boss is on boards as WSU. They are a big deal in Wichita, and very close to the program.

So I am not bringing any "guessing" or rumors when it come to Wichita state.

That's great.  How much are you able to elaborate on IU and Marshall?  Did they "interview" him, talk money, offer him, etc?  Was he a favorite choice of IU's?  What went wrong between the parties?

[Reacher]

4 hours ago, Parakeet Jones said:

I was at the game so I didn’t see it on TV. Could someone tell me what Dakich had to say last night please?  I’m curious. 

Only heard a bit myself but was shocked to hear him say a call on Morgan was terrible. 

[bluegrassIU]

1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

That's great.  How much are you able to elaborate on IU and Marshall?  Did they "interview" him, talk money, offer him, etc?  Was he a favorite choice of IU's?  What went wrong between the parties?

I cant say how close. I also know the Donivan thing was real....because Marshal knows who IU reached out to. So all those mockers, I just smile and ignore.

Donovan was choice 1, but although there were talks, it did not get as far as somethought. But it was real.

Then there were a few "next" ups. Marshal, Archie and mack are the only ones I know for sure.

I think Marshal and IU was serious. At the end of the day, as much as it was close, I think both sides backed off.

Again, Gregg loves Wichita and his family can live a normal life. Go to dinner, movies etc. 

That would never happen at IU. And he likes comfort for him and his family.

IU learned Archie, I think hoping he was a 20 year guy based on his age.

So both were serious, but neither went all in. That's the best I can say it.

[dbmhoosier]

15 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

I cant say how close. I also know the Donivan thing was real....because Marshal knows who IU reached out to. So all those mockers, I just smile and ignore.

Donovan was choice 1, but although there were talks, it did not get as far as somethought. But it was real.

Then there were a few "next" ups. Marshal, Archie and mack are the only ones I know for sure.

I think Marshal and IU was serious. At the end of the day, as much as it was close, I think both sides backed off.

Again, Gregg loves Wichita and his family can live a normal life. Go to dinner, movies etc. 

That would never happen at IU. And he likes comfort for him and his family.

IU learned Archie, I think hoping he was a 20 year guy based on his age.

So both were serious, but neither went all in. That's the best I can say it.

Did Gregg truly want the Texas job as rumored?

[BobSaccamanno]

I was very impressed with Gregg Marshall's team.  They emphasized the three and really shot some daggers.  They played very hard and scrappy.  If someone pulled a dumb or lazy move, Marshall yanked them right away.  That team is not particularly talented but Marshall watches winning habits like the great coaches do. As he said in the pre-game, IU wouldn't recruit any of those guys and they beat the pedigreed guys on their home floor.  Pretty good x's and o's as he attacked IU's weaknesses well.  Even though he coaches them hard, they seemed pretty happy jumping around the locker room. He's a top flight coach.

[BobSaccamanno]

32 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

I cant say how close. I also know the Donivan thing was real....because Marshal knows who IU reached out to. So all those mockers, I just smile and ignore.

Donovan was choice 1, but although there were talks, it did not get as far as somethought. But it was real.

Then there were a few "next" ups. Marshal, Archie and mack are the only ones I know for sure.

I think Marshal and IU was serious. At the end of the day, as much as it was close, I think both sides backed off.

Again, Gregg loves Wichita and his family can live a normal life. Go to dinner, movies etc. 

That would never happen at IU. And he likes comfort for him and his family.

IU learned Archie, I think hoping he was a 20 year guy based on his age.

So both were serious, but neither went all in. That's the best I can say it.

Good stuff.  I was told that IU was not willing to pay elite money. If you put enough money on the table, you can do some convincing.  If IU gave Archie $3 M, you could blow that way up which is what it would take to get the elite guy.  The Koch brothers can pay top dollar but if IU upped the ante, he could go because of the opportunity IU presents.  

[IUguy]

Stop blaming Archie!  Pretty much all of us were thrilled when he got hired after what he accomplished at Dayton.  He has been saddled with non-shooters returning and hit hard by injuries.  Do any of you really belive that IU would not have made the playoffs if Hunter and Thompson were healthy all year and got worked into the regular rotation?  We do have some glaring deficiencies though.  Justin Smith, for all of his upside, has no basketball IQ and often is very lazy to boot.  There is no way he would play so many minutes if the other two guys were healthy or just starting out (Thompson).  The team should be stronger up front next year with TJD and a healthy Davis. If Hunter and the new guys can shoot as advertised, they, along with Green, who will only get better, should solve that problem.  With enough good pieces and a few reliable subs, Archie will do fine and we will be there in the mix next year.

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Good stuff.  I was told that IU was not willing to pay elite money. If you put enough money on the table, you can do some convincing.  If IU gave Archie $3 M, you could blow that way up which is what it would take to get the elite guy.  The Koch brothers can pay top dollar but if IU upped the ante, he could go because of the opportunity IU presents.  

Archie is the 10th highest paid coach so that is pretty elite to me

[BobSaccamanno]

Just now, IU Scott said:

Archie is the 10th highest paid coach so that is pretty elite to me

It's not high enough to get a top established coach, as I said.  He got a good salary that Glass can point to, but it is "up and coming" money.  It's not anywhere near the stratosphere you need to sign an elite established coach.  

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

It's not high enough to get a top established coach, as I said.  He got a good salary that Glass can point to, but it is "up and coming" money.  It's not anywhere near the stratosphere you need to sign an elite established coach.  

I have said that this many times but those top elite coaches are not leaving their current jobs to come here.  Any coach you are willing to pay 6 million to is not coming here because they already have top jobs. You also have coaches like Few and Marshall who are content where they are hat and can win big there.

[BGleas]

Just now, BobSaccamanno said:

It's not high enough to get a top established coach, as I said.  He got a good salary that Glass can point to, but it is "up and coming" money.  It's not anywhere near the stratosphere you need to sign an elite established coach.  

What elite established coach are you getting? There weren't really any available. It's not some stone-cold lock opinion that Marshall would have been a better hire than Archie, given factors like age, Marshall's temperament, etc.