Zuckerkorn Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 33 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: Part of Archie's mentality is "Play the hand you're dealt". We're not going to see wholesale roster changes like that. That's not how you build chemistry and synergy. I will say that thus far he hasn't been dealt a very good 'hand'. One good returning player from the previous staff was on this years team (and forced to play out of position at that). The sophomore class had no players that showed the talent and consistency to start on a top 40 team. Assuming he was forced to re-recruit this class by the AD, that sure didn't help. Finally, losing a top recruit for the entire season on top of the previous things really hurt. Injuries to other players didn't help, but you have to expect to lose some players (temporarily) throughout the season. Circumstances being what they are, Archie had the choice to either stick with his style of play/philosophy or change it to fit the hand he was dealt. I believe he chose to stick with the approach he's had success with in the past. Now he needs to find a way to either get the right players or do something he hasn't done thus far - coach the players he has to play his system effectively and successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 46 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: I like Archie, his will to win, his hatred of losing, his energy, and his toughness. Other than a couple of guys, his roster does not match the coach’s mentality. For that reason, I’d like to see wholesale changes to the roster. Ideally, we’d get a five new players coming in. Two could be grad transfers and another freshman or juco to go with the two we have signed. We need a roster that’s tougher and smarter, with better chemistry and synergy. We also need shooting. I hope Archie has it in him to make these difficult changes. Regardless of record, we didn’t have a team that played in a manner we would consider exemplary let alone be proud of. My concern is Archie has been too permissive and I hope that doesn’t portend allowing guys back. I will be very disappointed if we come back with the same crew minus Romeo and the seniors. We need some excisions to the roster. Prepare to be mostly disappointed then. Coach SS's tweet indicated that the staff doesn't plan much personnel turnover beyond graduation and the possibility of Romeo Langford declaring for the draft. The stated preference is to develop the players IU has. That being said, you're far too pessimistic. Two excellent recruits are being added, as will be the 2nd best player from last year's class. Everyone else is a year deeper into Archie's system. Don't be shocked if Romeo comes back...healthier with an improved shot. If all these things, or even most of these things happen, I think you'll see another year of improvement. Even if IU sees a win improvement the same as this year, that's 22 wins next season. Personally, I expect 23 or 24 wins and a trip to the NCAA tournament. I think's Bob Knight's take on Miller deserves repeating again and again and again...good or bad, Knight recognizes good coaching genes... "“Patience is not something a lot of fans have,” Knight said. “But this kid (Miller) is going to do a good job. Why? Because he can coach. Most of the coaches I’ve known, can’t coach. You folks are going to appreciate him, but it ain’t gonna happen in a year.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, hoosiertildeath said: If the off season is not full of bad news , I'd say He'll Yes !! Come on to IU Keon Brooks !!!!!!! If anyone claims to be an Indiana fan can't see what could happen in 2019-2020 , all I can do is scratch my head !!!!! ...I'm scratching my head too...Keion Brooks? That ship has sailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 39 minutes ago, Inequality said: Naw. RP is a beast and is only going to get better. IMO.. of the entire team, RP is the most valuable player on this IU roster going forward. His shooting was sure beastly last night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: ...I'm scratching my head too...Keion Brooks? That ship has sailed. HTD is still standing on the pier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATX_sig Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 Iu hasn't been very good since Yogi left. This year turned out to be about Rob learning to adjust from HS to college as a PG. It's to bad he missed a lot of time between semesters when the opportunity to concentrate on basketball only existed. I think the ffortunes turn the corner with a promising and upcoming PG. I know shooting is a huge topic of concern but next to having a PG like Rob running the show for 3 years, this team has to grow up in the paint. Morgan was a great player for IU but he should not have been manning the middle full time for 2 years. I expect Davis' injury woes left them with few options other than Morgan but lack of size and length from the paint outward needs to change IMO. Hopefully as the page turns to Archie's Frosh class of Rob, Race, Jake, DA, and hunter, there will be solid contributions from this group in the rotation. I think players likely show the most improvement from 1st to second year as they learn what to expect and adjust from HS to college. Then they add more consistency as they move to Jr/Sr. Along with TJD and Franklin this group is where the culture change will come. As yogi Berra said, He ain't gone until he's gone. Maybe romeo will return for another season. I think he struggled with the adjustment to college. maturity wise. He is very talented so the production was present. College is probably the best place to mature as a leader. Culver and Morant are good examples. Right now DA concerns me the most assuming the rest remain healthy or get healthy. Wasn't he billed as a scorer that could shoot. I think if that is the case maybe he just needs a little confidence to get going. Knocking down a couple of shot might of helped but he sure looked lost most of the time. This team may not have meteoric rise but I expect it to be better and at least earn a tourney berth. Everything that could go wrong in a single season seemed to go wrong this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, rico said: Every new season brings optimism on my part no matter how the previous season went. Same with me and I will be there in October for Hosier Hysteria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 38 minutes ago, Inequality said: Naw. RP is a beast and is only going to get better. IMO.. of the entire team, RP is the most valuable player on this IU roster going forward. I think RP will be a tremendous asset for the program and really shine as an upperclassman. I would not call him a beast at this point. He needs to pick his spots to score better. We needed more than 5 points from him vs WS. Too many times he disappears. He needs to play the whole game like its the last 2 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 minute ago, FKIM01 said: Prepare to be mostly disappointed then. Coach SS's tweet indicated that the staff doesn't plan much personnel turnover beyond graduation and the possibility of Romeo Langford declaring for the draft. The stated preference is to develop the players IU has. That being said, you're far too pessimistic. Two excellent recruits are being added, as will be the 2nd best player from last year's class. Everyone else is a year deeper into Archie's system. Don't be shocked if Romeo comes back...healthier with an improved shot. If all these things, or even most of these things happen, I think you'll see another year of improvement. Even if IU sees a win improvement the same as this year, that's 22 wins next season. Personally, I expect 23 or 24 wins and a trip to the NCAA tournament. I think's Bob Knight's take on Miller deserves repeating again and again and again...good or bad, Knight recognizes good coaching genes... "“Patience is not something a lot of fans have,” Knight said. “But this kid (Miller) is going to do a good job. Why? Because he can coach. Most of the coaches I’ve known, can’t coach. You folks are going to appreciate him, but it ain’t gonna happen in a year.” I think much of what causes the pessimism is the lack of a known quality. We don't know if Romeo will return. We don't know if Hunter will be healthy, and even if so how good he will be (particularly having not played competitively for months). It's always an unknown as to how freshmen will perform, and bigs tend to take longer to adjust. Add on to that how we really believed Smith and Green were going to show significant improvement (turning out to be marginal) and now we need to hope others will improve. It's really hard to objectively expect near term success. Now if Romeo opts to stay, Hunter is cleared and we hear he continues to be healthy and looking good, and we manage to grab a known quantity/quality transfer, the outlook can be greatly improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySportsPartizan Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 We really need a shooter to step up, Damezi has such a large opportunity to be one of the most improved players in the B1G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, ATX_sig said: Iu hasn't been very good since Yogi left. This year turned out to be about Rob learning to adjust from HS to college as a PG. It's to bad he missed a lot of time between semesters when the opportunity to concentrate on basketball only existed. I think the ffortunes turn the corner with a promising and upcoming PG. I know shooting is a huge topic of concern but next to having a PG like Rob running the show for 3 years, this team has to grow up in the paint. Morgan was a great player for IU but he should not have been manning the middle full time for 2 years. I expect Davis' injury woes left them with few options other than Morgan but lack of size and length from the paint outward needs to change IMO. Hopefully as the page turns to Archie's Frosh class of Rob, Race, Jake, DA, and hunter, there will be solid contributions from this group in the rotation. I think players likely show the most improvement from 1st to second year as they learn what to expect and adjust from HS to college. Then they add more consistency as they move to Jr/Sr. Along with TJD and Franklin this group is where the culture change will come. As yogi Berra said, He ain't gone until he's gone. Maybe romeo will return for another season. I think he struggled with the adjustment to college. maturity wise. He is very talented so the production was present. College is probably the best place to mature as a leader. Culver and Morant are good examples. Right now DA concerns me the most assuming the rest remain healthy or get healthy. Wasn't he billed as a scorer that could shoot. I think if that is the case maybe he just needs a little confidence to get going. Knocking down a couple of shot might of helped but he sure looked lost most of the time. This team may not have meteoric rise but I expect it to be better and at least earn a tourney berth. Everything that could go wrong in a single season seemed to go wrong this year. I've always believed that great players generally show signs of tbeir future performance in their freshman season. Maybe not consistently, or just in flashes, but it usually shows (barring injuries). Obviously Rob and Romeo fit that mold. Jake had a few flashes. But as you mentioned, Damezi never really showed anything. This is not to say you give up on a player after their freshman season. There are players that eventually became very good and reliable starters later in their careers, but the odds are just as good that such players will become role players or not work out. Rightly or not, we all want difference makers now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, IndySportsPartizan said: We really need a shooter to step up, Damezi has such a large opportunity to be one of the most improved players in the B1G. Absolutely. I watched him warming up against Arkansas and the kid simply did not miss. I can't remember how many in a row he hit from behind the arc, but it was a bunch. When that translates to an actual game, look out. Damezi's issues are not talent. It looks to be instructional (lack of defensive instruction in HS) and mental. If he can just get past that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJPaisley Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 I'm a Durham fan. I look forward to his growth next yr. He seems to have a great work ethic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 I remain optimistic because of these coaches' 2nd Seasons: Tom Izzo (MSU): 17-12; no NCAA tournament Jim Beilein (Mich): 21-17 (15-17 the following year) Coach K (Duke): 10-17 Jay Wright (Nova): 15-16 Billy Donovan (Florida): 15-17 I firmly believe we were a tournament team if injuries didn't desmate us this year and the attitude of the fanbase would be completely different. But because we don't have the ability to change history, let's give Arch another year or 2 before we start burning down the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUB74 Posted March 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, IU Scott said: Since IU has won 5 championships in 80 years so it is hard to expect them to win one every few years. I didn’t say that this is what I expect. This is what I want. The disparity between what I want and what I expect, prompted me to start this thread. I am not going to want less for IU basketball. I hope that someday what I want and what I expect have a great deal more in common! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, FKIM01 said: Prepare to be mostly disappointed then. Coach SS's tweet indicated that the staff doesn't plan much personnel turnover beyond graduation and the possibility of Romeo Langford declaring for the draft. The stated preference is to develop the players IU has. That being said, you're far too pessimistic. Two excellent recruits are being added, as will be the 2nd best player from last year's class. Everyone else is a year deeper into Archie's system. Don't be shocked if Romeo comes back...healthier with an improved shot. If all these things, or even most of these things happen, I think you'll see another year of improvement. Even if IU sees a win improvement the same as this year, that's 22 wins next season. Personally, I expect 23 or 24 wins and a trip to the NCAA tournament. I think's Bob Knight's take on Miller deserves repeating again and again and again...good or bad, Knight recognizes good coaching genes... "“Patience is not something a lot of fans have,” Knight said. “But this kid (Miller) is going to do a good job. Why? Because he can coach. Most of the coaches I’ve known, can’t coach. You folks are going to appreciate him, but it ain’t gonna happen in a year.” I'm with you. I think we're on the right track. One thing that often gets overlooked, is that pretty much anyone in a job like coaching, or a lot of jobs for that matter, get better with experience (granted, some more than others). He progressed as a coach at Dayton, and he'll progress under the different circumstances that IU presents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 11 hours ago, FKIM01 said: I put this in the transfer portal, but I think it makes sense here as well... The staff feels like they are close and this sunshine pumper does too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 To answer the OP in a single word; yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 hours ago, FKIM01 said: Absolutely. I watched him warming up against Arkansas and the kid simply did not miss. I can't remember how many in a row he hit from behind the arc, but it was a bunch. When that translates to an actual game, look out. Damezi's issues are not talent. It looks to be instructional (lack of defensive instruction in HS) and mental. If he can just get past that... I think we will know on Damezi next year. The game was way too fast for him this year, mentally. If he can adjust to the speed at this level, which will take considerable work, he can be a good player. It's one thing to hit 20 out of 30 threes against air. But, can he do it at the speed needed at this level? Not yet. Tommy Coverdale and Collin Hartmann are two kids who really improved their sophomore season. Damezi has the ability to do it too, but he will need to transform his game and adjust to the speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 12 hours ago, Zlinedavid said: A) Rob Phinisee B) Race Thompson C) Jerome Hunter D) De'Ron Davis E) Trayce Jackson-Davis F) Having the Carnegie Hall of College Basketball as a home court G) Archie Miller (I still think he's an extremely intelligent coach with a take-no-#&$% attitude) Agree with most of it except B and C. Don't get me wrong. I like Thompson and his upside/potential. But when watching him subbing in Wichita State game, he looked completely lost on defensive end. Also he's not an offensive threat at all at this point. Hopefully he learns and grows, but I'm a bit doubtful about his contribution next season. I think he needs a lot of playing time to get really acclimated to the college games. We only heard good things about Hunter on some early practice sessions he participated before he got sidelined. I'm very cautiously optimistic on Hunter because no one has seen him playing against real Big Ten opponents. In the past, we heard so many rave reviews on many different players how they played in scrimmages but only to turned out they were not even close to Big Ten level. So I fully expect Hunter would go through some growing pain just like other freshmen. IMO, De'ron Davis, Rob Phinisee, and TJD have to be our top dogs and carry the team. You didn't mention but actually I'm optimistic on Durham. Kid's got a great work ethics, and he seems highly coachable. With that said, I got a big question mark on Green and Smith. It's just my gut feeling, but I don't think Green enjoys playing Archie's offense. He only got 1 year of eligibility, so he's got a big decision to make in April, either fully becoming the type of player Archie wants or finding a new coach who lets him play his preferred style. Smith's got something to think about too, and I'll just leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 If you take into account both mental and physical toughness, the toughest kids we have coming back are Phinisee, Davis, Durham and Thompson. One of my top five favorite things of this season was De'Ron Davis literally wiping the smirk off Nick Ward's face at Michigan State. Early on, Ward thought this was going to be a picnic as he had that cocky smirk. Davis had not been playing due to injury. He then came in and absolutely took it to Ward and you saw that smirk disappear, and be replaced with a surprised "oh ^&%$" look. In general, Davis is confident and competent taking it to people with aggression. If he loses the flab and works on his conditioning, he can be outstanding next year. Phinny has hit big shots and played excellent defense for the most part. He had freshman moments but he's a winner. Durham is not the strongest or most talented kid, but he brings it. Race needs to work up his minutes but he has a no-nonsense attitude and is ready to bang. Green -- and this may sound weird-- is pretty tough in an unorthodox way. He's willing to take the tough shot late. That takes toughness. Now, he cancels some stuff out with boneheadedness at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 It's going to be an interesting month or so in the aftermath of the season. I listened to Archie's post-game from last night, and a few points were worth noting IMO: 1. Shooting the three was the biggest limitation preventing the team from reaching its potential. I loved that statement. 2. Playing the extra games put players' performance on tape. Thus, Archie has proof positive ammo on some teaching moments. 3. He wants to talk to all the players to "ensure everyone is on the same page." I am not convinced as some of you are that 1-2 players aren't gone. If Archie has a hard, honest conversation with guys and they are willing to listen and do what is needed, by all means, let them say. How they react will be key. It will be interesting to see what the transfer portal brings. We need to plan for at least four spots for that 2021 class just in case. In 2020, if we somehow come out of there with Ethan Morton or some other tough kid, then we can go all out on 2021. The big kid from Evansville from 2020 also intrigues me. As Tom Coverdale said, "we used to play with an _ you edge and IU needs players like that now." EDIT (This Coverdale quote was on a Hoosier Hysterics podcast offered by Peegs. Those guys do an excellent job. The Hartmann podcast was very instructive on Archie and Crean. Very candid.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said: Green -- and this may sound weird-- is pretty tough in an unorthodox way. He's willing to take the tough shot late. That takes toughness. Now, he cancels some stuff out with boneheadedness at times. And is it just me or do you sometimes see he gave up a bit too much space on shooters and they made big shots late in the game? Obviously, Green's got guts to take big shots when other kids looked around to get rid of the hot potato off their hands. I admire Green for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 Injuries hurt us this year ,but not as bad as poor shooting and bad basketball IQ imo. One other thing that hurt was we didn’t have a consistent an productive bench. Archie needs to hit the trail hard and get some quality players. We seem to be a long shot on the recruits I see on the recruiting board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 18 hours ago, BADGERVOL said: I’d feel a lot better if a couple guys announced they were transferring. I'm transferring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.