The Daily Hoosier Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 Will this fan base have the patience to wait until 2022 to see the results they are hoping for? https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/archie-miller-might-still-be-chasing-an-older-team-rooted-in-his-system-next-year/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 Good stuff, as usual, Mike. I know people have been critical that Archie hasn't ramped up his success as fast as some other coaches have, but I've thought and said many times...the difference between Crean's style and what IU is playing now, both on offense and defense is 180 degrees apart, which leads a reasonable person to conclude that it might take longer to incorporate. I expect better next year, but only in year 4 do we get enough shift in personnel and enough time in practice to really see the style embraced and incorporated like Archie wants. Even then, we have Crean recruits that Archie embraced as seniors. Get old and stay old takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 No, they won’t, nor should they. Tom Crean made the Sweet 16 in his fourth year at IU after taking over what was actually a “massive rebuild.” If Archie can’t get a top 5 seed and/or make the second weekend of the tournament by the end of his fourth year, he’s not the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 Just now, FW_Hoosier said: No, they won’t, nor should they. Tom Crean made the Sweet 16 in his fourth year at IU after taking over what was actually a “massive rebuild.” If Archie can’t get a top 5 seed and/or make the second weekend of the tournament by the end of his fourth year, he’s not the guy. I'd almost agree with that...and mostly agree with that. Here's one way Archie might have actually had more to overcome...Crean essentially got to start fresh with all of his guys. I realize that he just plugged holes as best he could in year one, but at least it was him choosing the guys. Archie pretty much started with Crean's guys, who all had to be retrained. Would Archie have chosen to start from scratch like Crean did? Unlikely, but at the same time, I have to wonder if re-training a college player with experience isn't almost as hard as training high school graduates. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: No, they won’t, nor should they. Tom Crean made the Sweet 16 in his fourth year at IU after taking over what was actually a “massive rebuild.” If Archie can’t get a top 5 seed and/or make the second weekend of the tournament by the end of his fourth year, he’s not the guy. Your opinion only...you really should use that caveat vs making blatant declarations. One of the biggest advantages that is often cited is that Indiana has a fertile recruiting base from which to draw. I have seen numerous comments about how CAM, or any coach at IU for that matter, should be able to field a competitive team comprised primarily of Indiana kids. Unfortunately, the previous head coach for whatever reason by and large ticked off the high school coaches in the state and estranged them from the program. Regaining the trust of those coaches is going to take time. Just because CAM came in and promised changes doesn't meant that automatically the pipeline to Bloomington is going to reopen. I am sure that many of these coaches are taking a "wait and see" approach to determine how much they buy into what CAM is selling. To put such an arbitrary absolute on this, or any coaching staff, sets the program up for upheaval and continued mediocrity, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 I think this is where the APR is a factor. Coaches who’ve had quick success have often loaded up on jucos, grad transfers and other transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: I'd almost agree with that...and mostly agree with that. Here's one way Archie might have actually had more to overcome...Crean essentially got to start fresh with all of his guys. I realize that he just plugged holes as best he could in year one, but at least it was him choosing the guys. Archie pretty much started with Crean's guys, who all had to be retrained. Would Archie have chosen to start from scratch like Crean did? Unlikely, but at the same time, I have to wonder if re-training a college player with experience isn't almost as hard as training high school graduates. Just a thought. Here’s where that logic breaks down though... Archie clearly didn’t take over a bigger rebuild than Crean did, because he’s clearly had way more success in his first two years at IU than Crean did in his first two years. And that’s due in large part to the talent Archie inherited from Crean. Regardless, the excuses and lowered expectations for Archie kind of blow my mind after how hard the fanbase was on Crean. The standard I initially laid out was pretty spectacularly low... Top 5 seed and/or making the second weekend of the tourney by the end of Year 4. If Archie can’t achieve either one of those things after four years, he has no business being the coach at IU, ***in my opinion.*** He’s John Groce at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Here’s where that logic breaks down though... Archie clearly didn’t take over a bigger rebuild than Crean did, because he’s clearly had way more success in his first two years at IU than Crean did in his first two years. And that’s due in large part to the talent Archie inherited from Crean. Regardless, the excuses and lowered expectations for Archie kind of blow my mind after how hard the fanbase was on Crean. The standard I initially laid out was pretty spectacularly low... Top 5 seed and/or making the second weekend of the tourney by the end of Year 4. If Archie can’t achieve either one of those things after four years, he has no business being the coach at IU, ***in my opinion.*** He’s John Groce at that point. Whoa...LOL...he's way better than John Groce ***in my opinion*** He'll get there. I just hope you don't melt down in a fit of impatience before he does. 😂😂😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 46 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: No, they won’t, nor should they. Tom Crean made the Sweet 16 in his fourth year at IU after taking over what was actually a “massive rebuild.” If Archie can’t get a top 5 seed and/or make the second weekend of the tournament by the end of his fourth year, he’s not the guy. And maybe finding "the guy"...meaning another RMK, never happens. It hasn't for UCLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 I guess it all depends on what you expect from this program. Is it all about just winning championships or bust and for those who feel this way you will never be satisfied. Is it about seeing this program built the right way and seeing improvement every year and making noticeable progress every year then you will be satisfied because I think Archie will be able to do this. I always look back and see even some of the all time great coaches took a few years until they could establish a consistent winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 The current 10 schollies for next season are nicely balanced (in part due to RS) SR-2 JR-2 SO-3 FR-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: Whoa...LOL...he's way better than John Groce ***in my opinion*** He'll get there. I just hope you don't melt down in a fit of impatience before he does. 😂😂😂 Haha c’mon man, you’re misrepresenting my argument... I said he’s John Groce IF he can’t manage to get a top 5 seed or make the second weekend of the tourney by the end of his fourth year. That would be shocking considering the roster he would have at that point. And I don’t see how expecting those bare minimum results by 2021 is being impatient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoshenFan84 Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: Whoa...LOL...he's way better than John Groce ***in my opinion*** He'll get there. I just hope you don't melt down in a fit of impatience before he does. 😂😂😂 ***In my opinion*** Archie is turning the program around. Will he be the one to enjoy the fruits of his labor or the coach after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 In my opinion it is time for this whole fan base to get together and get behind this program and stop second guessing everything the coaches do. Maybe it is time that we learn some patience and let Archie and his staff to do their job without having to see or read some stupid comments by this fan base. It is time for this program to have some positive vibe around it and we as fans should do our part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Here’s where that logic breaks down though... Archie clearly didn’t take over a bigger rebuild than Crean did, because he’s clearly had way more success in his first two years at IU than Crean did in his first two years. And that’s due in large part to the talent Archie inherited from Crean. Regardless, the excuses and lowered expectations for Archie kind of blow my mind after how hard the fanbase was on Crean. The standard I initially laid out was pretty spectacularly low... Top 5 seed and/or making the second weekend of the tourney by the end of Year 4. If Archie can’t achieve either one of those things after four years, he has no business being the coach at IU, ***in my opinion.*** He’s John Groce at that point. Exactly and amen ! Top 5 seed and 2nd weekend of the dance used to be a banner year for Purdue, not a stretch goal for IU....not good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 If he misses the dance this coming season there's no way he should get a 4th year. He might due to our administration but he shouldn't and year 4 would be extremely toxic and the writing will all over the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said: Exactly and amen ! Top 5 seed and 2nd weekend of the dance used to be a banner year for Purdue, not a stretch goal for IU....not good Could it be that you and some others need to realize this program is not what it use to be like it was when we were younger. Let a coach have time to build a program that can sustain success and stop being impatient and want change after a couple of years. The problem I see with our fans is just like UCLA fans who expect what they had in the past and can't see the landscape of college basketball is not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said: If he misses the dance this coming season there's no way he should get a 4th year. He might due to our administration but he shouldn't and year 4 would be extremely toxic and the writing will all over the wall. Why is that, just because some of your buddies over on rivals say this kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 28 minutes ago, IU Scott said: In my opinion it is time for this whole fan base to get together and get behind this program and stop second guessing everything the coaches do. Maybe it is time that we learn some patience and let Archie and his staff to do their job without having to see or read some stupid comments by this fan base. It is time for this program to have some positive vibe around it and we as fans should do our part. Patience? What do you call the last 19+ years? I would say this fan base has been fairly patient. The style of play, off the court issues, bonehead coaching moves, arrogant AD, etc have worn that patience really thin the last several years. I only see that getting worse if things don’t begin to get noticibly better starting next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison22 Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Steubenhoosier said: Unfortunately, the previous head coach for whatever reason by and large ticked off the high school coaches in the state and estranged them from the program. Regaining the trust of those coaches is going to take time. I agree with your point. I see why people are impatient, too. It's not just the previous coach. Knight alienated Indiana high school coaches (and decided hunting and fishing were more important than recruiting). FIred. We were told it will take time. Mike Davis burned bridges all over the state. Fired. It will take time, they said. Sampson. Same. Fired. It will take time, we were told. Crean. Not good with Indiana high school coaches. Fired. It will take time, everyone said. Here we are 25 years later. Twenty. Five. Years. At some point, it feels like we keep reaching into the Big Old Bag of Excuses: injuries, he needs his own players, it's a new system that takes years to learn, whatever. I agree Archie needs time. But jeez, this has gotten old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Could it be that you and some others need to realize this program is not what it use to be like it was when we were younger. Let a coach have time to build a program that can sustain success and stop being impatient and want change after a couple of years. The problem I see with our fans is just like UCLA fans who expect what they had in the past and can't see the landscape of college basketball is not the same. Really???? Wasn’t it you, just the other day, that posted ‘It’s Miller Time (to leave)?” Now you’re preaching patience? Color me confused.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said: Really???? Wasn’t it you, just the other day, that posted ‘It’s Miller Time (to leave)?” Now you’re preaching patience? Color me confused.... That was in reference to player transfers...like "Creaning". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Why is that, just because some of your buddies over on rivals say this kind of thing. There's no way he could succeed at that point. It would be all over and recruiting would fall into the crapper. You can't succeed when at least half the fan base wants you fired and that's what would happen. And from what I'm told there's no way Crean would've had a 4th year had he missed on Zeller and he inherited a much worse situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdgenhoosier Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: If he misses the dance this coming season there's no way he should get a 4th year. He might due to our administration but he shouldn't and year 4 would be extremely toxic and the writing will all over the wall. As we sit here right now I vehemently disagree. I think much depends upon how next season progresses. To make such a blanket statement now before we even know what the roster will look like is extremely premature in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: That was in reference to player transfers...like "Creaning". Got it....thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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