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Again AAU schools in BIG 12 AND PAC12

BIG12

Texas, Iowa St, Kansas

PAC 12

UW, Oregon, Utah, Colorado, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Cal, Arizona

These will be the schools to watch. Who knows...maybe the PAC12 says why merge with the B1G if we can fix our problems by adding the left overs of the BIG 12 in getting OSU, Texas Tech, and Baylor etc.

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2 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

I live in Phoenix and I almost never hear about college sports. When I do, it's usually ASU and not UA. I have an uncle who has lived in Tucson for decades and he says that even when UA was really good people there don't really care much. 

It's good to expand into new markets and I'd personally love if ASU or even UA were to join the B1G so IU would occasionally travel here for me to watch, but don't think that there is a huge fan base for UA. Both teams are on TV here, though.

Phoenix is kind of an area where others move to though.  Rutgers does not really move the dial in New York either, but that did not matter.  It is just getting that footprint in the area.  

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2 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

I live in Phoenix and I almost never hear about college sports. When I do, it's usually ASU and not UA. I have an uncle who has lived in Tucson for decades and he says that even when UA was really good people there don't really care much. 

It's good to expand into new markets and I'd personally love if ASU or even UA were to join the B1G so IU would occasionally travel here for me to watch, but don't think that there is a huge fan base for UA. Both teams are on TV here, though.

It will all come down to revenue generated. If AU drives enough revenue through tv deals etc to the conference then they will be a target...if not it simply won't happen unless it ends up being an all or nothing deal. They will look for positive sum gains for the whole conference when negotiating tv deals for revenue sharing.

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Again AAU schools in BIG 12 AND PAC12

BIG12

Texas, Iowa St, Kansas

PAC 12

UW, Oregon, Utah, Colorado, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Cal, Arizona

These will be the schools to watch. Who knows...maybe the PAC12 says why merge with the B1G if we can fix our problems by adding the left overs of the BIG 12 in getting OSU, Texas Tech, and Baylor etc.

If we have competent leadership for the BIG, you go to the schools you want and show them why joining the BIG as part of a national conference is going to be a more lucrative deal for you then splitting revenue with the also rans of the Big 12.

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9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Again AAU schools in BIG 12 AND PAC12

BIG12

Texas, Iowa St, Kansas

PAC 12

UW, Oregon, Utah, Colorado, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Cal, Arizona

These will be the schools to watch. Who knows...maybe the PAC12 says why merge with the B1G if we can fix our problems by adding the left overs of the BIG 12 in getting OSU, Texas Tech, and Baylor etc.

Besides the AAU one could look at endowments as well...

https://thebestschools.org/features/richest-universities-endowments-generosity-research/

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1 hour ago, Reacher said:

Merging the Big 12 and Pac 10 would not be good for the B1G. Getting KS starts to blow this up a bit. Seems like the Pac 10 may not be as receptive to a merger with the B1G which realistically leaves only 1 option- take their best teams and let the leftovers merge with the Big 12.

TBH, my thinking right now is that the Big 12 saves the ship and invites members from the AAC and/or MWC.  

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5 minutes ago, rico said:

Thats good and all but if they aren't willing to share assets and research (that is funded by their endowments etc) with other universities like the AAU agreement then I'm not sure how much that means to the conference itself. Seems the B1G wants to share academic data and research within it's members (which has a huge economic benefit to all) all while maximizing profit by it's members standing to make deals with the tv networks and generate ad money and revenue for the conference. I think endowments definitely show the health and stability and standing of a school but if it doesn't directly translate (which maybe it could) to the other member schools might not be a big factor in deciding on whom to bring in.

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17 minutes ago, rico said:

TBH, my thinking right now is that the Big 12 saves the ship and invites members from the AAC and/or MWC.  

I think they will go to where the money is. I think they will split up to the PAC 12 and B1G who can and the one or two remaining will actually break off to those leagues. I don't think you can replace the two top revenue providers to the conference by bringing in two or four smaller revenue providers it will work. Everyone then will get a smaller cut of a smaller pie. Each school is going to do whats in it's own best interest to get the biggest piece of pie they can...and that will mean trying to convince the Pac12 or B1G it's worth cutting them in (for most this won't be the case though). I think half will go to the major conferences and the other half will drop down to the smaller ones. This will have a major effect on the championship playoffs for sure. Without Okl and Texas...the BiG 12 will drop out of the power 5 and be looked at like one of the group of 5 or 6 now instead. Only the highest ranked in that group would automatically qualify...but this may have less to do with their decision then simply go to where they would get the most tv dollar deal.

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9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Thats good and all but if they aren't willing to share assets and research (that is funded by their endowments etc) with other universities like the AAU agreement then I'm not sure how much that means to the conference itself. Seems the B1G wants to share academic data and research within it's members (which has a huge economic benefit to all) all while maximizing profit by it's members standing to make deals with the tv networks and generate ad money and revenue for the conference. I think endowments definitely show the health and stability and standing of a school but if it doesn't directly translate (which maybe it could) to the other member schools might not be a big factor in deciding on whom to bring in.

That really wasn't my point.  My point, I guess, was to say that AAU schools generate a lot of money without athletics. Did I say it right? 

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7 minutes ago, rico said:

That really wasn't my point.  My point, I guess, was to say that AAU schools generate a lot of money without athletics. Did I say it right? 

Ohh...nevermind...I'm sure you did....working and responding I just didn't read it and was focused on one point lol. Your absolutely right!

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20 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Thats good and all but if they aren't willing to share assets and research (that is funded by their endowments etc) with other universities like the AAU agreement then I'm not sure how much that means to the conference itself. Seems the B1G wants to share academic data and research within it's members (which has a huge economic benefit to all) all while maximizing profit by it's members standing to make deals with the tv networks and generate ad money and revenue for the conference. I think endowments definitely show the health and stability and standing of a school but if it doesn't directly translate (which maybe it could) to the other member schools might not be a big factor in deciding on whom to bring in.

This.  People continue to not understand that the $$$ related to research are far greater than athletics.  It just is.  This isn't some arbitrary rule.  There is a reason why Johns Hopkins is affiliated with the B1G  and lacrosse was just the bonus.

Edited by IUALUM03
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50 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

If we have competent leadership for the BIG, you go to the schools you want and show them why joining the BIG as part of a national conference is going to be a more lucrative deal for you then splitting revenue with the also rans of the Big 12.

Absolutely!! This is certainly big time wheeling and dealing here. Gotta have the very best working on these pitches and proposals and have everything perfect. You nail it and there is no reason we should lose out. Hopefully we have the right people in place to make it happen. My biggest worry is in another 10 years the SEC comes back wanting even more power and says let's get Ohio St......or maybe OSU, PSU, and Michigan or something....and leaves the B1G with the same problem and IU loses the big revenue sharing partners we have had anchoring our conference. It might not ever happen but when power goes unchecked...it's like a vaccuum...it will eventually suck up everything around it...that's my fear.

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5 minutes ago, IUALUM03 said:

This.  People continue to not understand that the $$$ related to research are far greater than athletics.  It just is.  This isn't some arbitrary rule.  There is a reason why Johns Hopkins is affiliated with the B1G  and lacrosse was just the bonus.

I'm not going to lie...I don't know how long this athletic thing can last with College athletics...and NIL and paying players etc. The profits are in the schools favor right now but for how long....and what happens if it goes to a 50/50 revenue split with the athletes like pro sports....academics will suddenly not be so lucrative for many many schools...even big ones. At that point will they just drop down and have their own secondary division (non-payment) and those academic agreements etc will loom quite important indeed. I mean I could easily see in 25-30 years maybe the NFL/NBA do joint ventures with the universities like Alabama/OSU and they will almost become feeder teams for their franchises and the schools and only those associated will pay the kids and those left out will become almost another division of athletics.

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6 minutes ago, IUaic said:

I think the Big 12 is toast and Bowlsby is doing whatever he can to save his job.

 

Why wouldn't he try to save the conference?  That IS his job.  But there are certain things out of his control, UT and OU leaving is one of them.  What the f*** was he supposed to do?  Give Texas and Oklahoma bigger slices of the Big 12 pie?  

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15 hours ago, olsontex said:

My thoughts are beginning to transition away from "what will happen" and "why it will happen", to think about instead on what I'd like to happen and what will be most beneficial long term.

It starts with accepting the reality of a few things.

Nice post.  You're a little "windy" but well thought out.  Seriously, you should post more...good stuff.

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32 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I'm not going to lie...I don't know how long this athletic thing can last with College athletics...and NIL and paying players etc. The profits are in the schools favor right now but for how long....and what happens if it goes to a 50/50 revenue split with the athletes like pro sports....academics will suddenly not be so lucrative for many many schools...even big ones. At that point will they just drop down and have their own secondary division (non-payment) and those academic agreements etc will loom quite important indeed. I mean I could easily see in 25-30 years maybe the NFL/NBA do joint ventures with the universities like Alabama/OSU and they will almost become feeder teams for their franchises and the schools and only those associated will pay the kids and those left out will become almost another division of athletics.

I've though and said that for awhile now.  College athletics will only exist at colleges as long as they provide an economic benefit to colleges.  Colleges are willing to run a deficit for the advertising benefit, but I can see a day when they may say that it's just not worth it and pro leagues will have to develop their own feeder systems.  In that regard, baseball is way ahead of the others.

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3 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I've though and said that for awhile now.  College athletics will only exist at colleges as long as they provide an economic benefit to colleges.  Colleges are willing to run a deficit for the advertising benefit, but I can see a day when they may say that it's just not worth it and pro leagues will have to develop their own feeder systems.  In that regard, baseball is way ahead of the others.

The NFL specifically needs to step up to the plate in some regards forming some sort of "minor league" system.

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6 minutes ago, IUaic said:

I think the Big 12 is toast and Bowlsby is doing whatever he can to save his job.

 

He's trying to canoe up stream through rapids without a paddle. Agree the inevitability is that these schools will all break up and run to new homes that will take them in. They are simply going to go where they can get the most money and I don't see any way possible a new Big 12 without a Texas and Oklahoma will provide that. Actually his best hope is that the B1G does in fact take half the PAC12 with him and that would leave the non-AAU schools in both conferences to join together and hopefully have enough clout and support to make a new conference perhaps.

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3 minutes ago, rico said:

The NFL specifically needs to step up to the plate in some regards forming some sort of "minor league" system.

I do think in the end maybe 30-40 years as student/athletes will simply become players and not even attend the university or won't be required to and will get bigger and bigger cuts of the pie eventually the NFL and NBA will have to accredit certain universities and pay them to pay the players...or it will all collapse.

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13 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I do think in the end maybe 30-40 years as student/athletes will simply become players and not even attend the university or won't be required to and will get bigger and bigger cuts of the pie eventually the NFL and NBA will have to accredit certain universities and pay them to pay the players...or it will all collapse.

...or maybe it comes full circle.  Kids go to college to get an education.

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3 minutes ago, rico said:

...or maybe it comes full circle.  Kids go to college to get an education.

Then kids start an intramural sports league...and then that leads to them formulating a school team and reaching out to a neighboring school to perhaps schedule a competition and perhaps to form an intermural league with a few schools and then that leads to an official league (conference) and they schedule with another conference/league and so on til we are right back to where we are now lol!!

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Then kids start an intramural sports league...and then that leads to them formulating a school team and reaching out to a neighboring school to perhaps schedule a competition and perhaps to form an intermural league with a few schools and then that leads to an official league (conference) and they schedule with another conference/league and so on til we are right back to where we are now lol!!

Funny how history repeats itself...

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So I would think pro basketball has enough options where they couldn't care less if college basketball survives...as a matter of fact, it would probably benefit them by herding a lot of college basketball fans into watching NBA alternatives like G league...which is money in their pocket...

I know the NFL makes droves of money, but setting some minor league up would seem to me to be a costly venture simply based on player/coach/admin numbers, playing site access, and lack of viable leagues now...I'd think the NFL would like to keep the status quo...

Edited by IUFLA
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1 hour ago, rico said:

Why wouldn't he try to save the conference?  That IS his job.  But there are certain things out of his control, UT and OU leaving is one of them.  What the f*** was he supposed to do?  Give Texas and Oklahoma bigger slices of the Big 12 pie?  

Why didn't he have the conversation with the Pac-10 about a merger prior to OU and UT exiting? He may have, I don't know, it just seems that he is in panic mode ever since it became public. Maybe everything is coming out now that was being done behind the scenes before.

He should have found ways to get everyone in the Big 12 more money, not just those 2.

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