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Danomatic

Juwan Howard to Michigan

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4 minutes ago, B_A said:

Wouldn't the allure of coaching your alma mater be an attractive position regardless of what hours it takes? Howard hasn't been shy about what the UM means to him, always been a consistent face in the crowd with Rose at past tourneys. I'm sure the substantial raise in pay is a minor plus as well. 

Probably is but coming from the NBA he doesn't realize how much more of a time constraint are on you and your family.  Heard that Brad Stevens wife has said that she loves Brad coaching in the NBA because it actually gives him way more family time.

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13 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me he will realize that being a college coach is a lot more time consuming than being a coach in the NBA.  In the summer he won't be able to go on vacations with I=his family because he will ne to be traveling around the country chasing 17 year old kids.

I agree and that's why I think...

1 minute ago, B_A said:

Wouldn't the allure of coaching your alma mater be an attractive position regardless of what hours it takes? Howard hasn't been shy about what the UM means to him, always been a consistent face in the crowd with Rose at past tourneys. I'm sure the substantial raise in pay is a minor plus as well. 

...that he wanted a head coach gig ASAP and his alma mater was the one to give it to him (after missing on targets before him). If he's successful, he will try to parlay it into a NBA head coaching gig. If he's unsuccessful, I still think he'll head back to the NBA.

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As an IU fan I'm really coming around on this hire. For selfish reasons. I don't think Michigan will be as good as Beilein Michigan. But I think Juwan can take a few recruits here and there from Sparty and others. I also think Juwan will target Chicago...a place where we haven't necessarily recruited well over the years. Combine those things I think it hurts Michigan but also helps us because he will be able to take a few guys Sparty over the coming years. 

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2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

As an IU fan I'm really coming around on this hire. For selfish reasons. I don't think Michigan will be as good as Beilein Michigan. But I think Juwan can take a few recruits here and there from Sparty and others. I also think Juwan will target Chicago...a place where we haven't necessarily recruited well over the years. Combine those things I think it hurts Michigan but also helps us because he will be able to take a few guys Sparty over the coming years. 

I don't think he will be afraid to get a little dirty in recruiting Chicago because it is pretty well know the recruiting landscape in Chicago public leagues.  To me when I see a former college great player come back to college I think they might be willing to break a few rules because they probably thought they were exploited in college.  Also it is pretty well know that the Fab 5 was paid money so it will be interesting on what Howard will be willing to do in recruiting.

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8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Probably is but coming from the NBA he doesn't realize how much more of a time constraint are on you and your family.  Heard that Brad Stevens wife has said that she loves Brad coaching in the NBA because it actually gives him way more family time.

I agree with what you're saying. This might be a case of his allegiance to the university and his first shot at proving himself in the big seat outweighing any increase in time commitment or the comfort of NBA coaching. I would think raising a family in Ann Arbor would be more attractive than Miami. All speculation on our part. 

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I don't understand all the insinuations that Michigan will be dirty now that Howard is the coach.  

If we want to automatically assume someone is dirty because of associations from his past, then we would have to look very closely our own coach.  His big brother is the face of the FBI probe.

Tear someone down all you want AFTER they do something wrong.  But at least give him a chance to run a clean program first.

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20 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I don't understand all the insinuations that Michigan will be dirty now that Howard is the coach.  

If we want to automatically assume someone is dirty because of associations from his past, then we would have to look very closely our own coach.  His big brother is the face of the FBI probe.

Tear someone down all you want AFTER they do something wrong.  But at least give him a chance to run a clean program first.

It might have to do with that UM was dirty before Belein and their new coach was in the middle of a final four that was vacated.  Not saying they will be dirty but to me I would look at them very closely the next few years.

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I see a distinction in the sense that Juwan Howard was part of a program that cheated, directly.  Archie's brother has cheated, but we have not attached Archie to any cheating as of now.  And based on the recruits he has landed, there is no indication that any has had his hand out.

Edited by BobSaccamanno

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7 hours ago, BGleas said:

Only thing that I saw bothering me about this hire is that I keep hearing people like Jalen Rose (who I like on ESPN) and others of the NBA guys saying things like Howard is the perfect guy the “restore Michigan basketball” or “bring the program back”? 

That’s so disrespectful to John Beilein. I think he’s slightly overrated, but Beilein oversaw the most successful era of Michigan basketball. Howard should be hoping he can just keep up. 

I guess it’s the ‘getting guys to the NBA is more important than wins’ mentality. 

As an Indiana fan, I 100% support this hire.  When Michigan falls back to the middle of the pack, it opens things up for us.

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10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

It might have to do with that UM was dirty before Belein and their new coach was in the middle of a final four that was vacated.  Not saying they will be dirty but to me I would look at them very closely the next few years.

I just think it is unfair to make that assumption.  Was Eric Gordon guilty of the things that went on under Sampson just because some of his teammates were?  

Don't get me wrong.  Michigan has made a risky hire, not because of what Howard may or may not have done over 25 years ago, but because he has never coached in college basketball before.

The man has been Involved with a lot of worthwhile organizations.  That speaks more about his character than a vacated Final Four that may very well have not been related to anything he was involved with.

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6 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I see a distinction in the sense that Juwan Howard was part of a program that cheated, directly.  Archie's brother has cheated, but we have not attached Archie to any cheating as of now.  And based on the recruits he has landed, there is no indication that any has had his hand out.

I'll repeat.  Eric Gordon.  Guilt by association is totally unfair.

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15 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I see a distinction in the sense that Juwan Howard was part of a program that cheated, directly.  Archie's brother has cheated, but we have not attached Archie to any cheating as of now.  And based on the recruits he has landed, there is no indication that any has had his hand out.

Archie not part of a program that cheated?  He was Sean’s top recruiter at Arizona for two years.

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4 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Archie not part of a program that cheated?  He was Sean’s top recruiter at Arizona for two years. 

Well, you don't cheat AND finish 8-12 in the B10. So I'm pretty confidant he's clean now.

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33 minutes ago, Wayward1 said:

Well, you don't cheat AND finish 8-12 in the B10. So I'm pretty confidant he's clean now.

Good to hear from you WW. Need to hear more from you going forward.

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1 hour ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Archie not part of a program that cheated?  He was Sean’s top recruiter at Arizona for two years.

Maybe so, but he hasn't been implicated in anything.  The Fab Five teams were sanctioned.

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20 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Maybe so, but he hasn't been implicated in anything.  The Fab Five teams were sanctioned.

Howard wasn’t implicated in anything either.  And you would think Arizona is due for some sanctions as well.  Howard was just a player for a dirty program, Archie actually coached for one.

I guess you can go with the “Sean wasn’t cheating back then” argument, but I think it’s a bit of a stretch for IU fans to try and take the moral high ground on this one.

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4 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Howard wasn’t implicated in anything either.  And you would think Arizona is due for some sanctions as well.  Howard was just a player for a dirty program, Archie actually coached for one.

I guess you can go with the “Sean wasn’t cheating back then” argument, but I think it’s a bit of a stretch for IU fans to try and take the moral high ground on this one.

Well if you don't think Howard got paid then you are naïve because if Rose and Webber got paid then I bet Howard did as well.

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4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Well if you don't think Howard got paid then you are naïve because if Rose and Webber got paid then I bet Howard did as well.

Oh Scott, you’re THIS close to figuring it out...

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I hope he does well. I was a fan of the Fab 5 as a kid, just always liked IU more. When they didn’t play IU, I pulled for Michigan. 

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47 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Well if you don't think Howard got paid then you are naïve because if Rose and Webber got paid then I bet Howard did as well.

Maybe he did get paid.  It was over 25 years ago.  All evidence now says he is a good man that is well respected in basketball circles.

I bet there are a lot of coaches/players that you respect that have cheated and just not got caught.  

I, for one, will give him the benefit of the doubt until something proves me wrong.  

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1 hour ago, Feathery said:

I hope he does well. I was a fan of the Fab 5 as a kid, just always liked IU more. When they didn’t play IU, I pulled for Michigan. 

I grew up in northern Indiana (Ft. Wayne) and was in middle school at the time the Fab Five (barf) hit.  They became the "cool" pick for a bunch of kids.  I hated them.  With a passion.  As far as I was concerned at the time, they were everything that was soulless and evil.  The complete antithesis of Indiana.  Steve Fischer was the antichrist and they were his evil minions and many an argument was had over the lunch table and many a milkshake was won by betting on IU whenever they played.  My position has softened a bit as I have aged and I took a liking to Rose as a Pacer and Webber as he got older...but man I hated those guys when they were college players.  Bunch of loudmouths who never won sh.....

Edited by IUCrazy2
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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Maybe he did get paid.  It was over 25 years ago.  All evidence now says he is a good man that is well respected in basketball circles.

I bet there are a lot of coaches/players that you respect that have cheated and just not got caught.  

I, for one, will give him the benefit of the doubt until something proves me wrong.  

Good post but I want to add to it a tad...

When you are young sometimes(most of the time) you don't know what "cheating" is.  

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41 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I grew up in northern Indiana (Ft. Wayne) and was in middle school at the time the Fab Five (barf) hit.  They became the "cool" pick for a bunch of kids.  I hated them.  With a passion.  As far as I was concerned at the time, they were everything that was soulless and evil.  The complete antithesis of Indiana.  Steve Fischer was the antichrist and they were his evil minions and many an argument was had over the lunch table and many a milkshake was won by betting on IU whenever they played.  My position has softened a bit as I have aged and I took a liking to Rose as a Pacer and Webber as he got older...but man I hated those guys when they were college players.  Bunch of loudmouths who never won sh.....

Growing up on the coast, they were just like my friends. We all ran our mouths playing ball. Just part of the culture. The baggy shorts were great, end of the nut huggers!!

Edited by Feathery
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10 hours ago, Feathery said:

Growing up on the coast, they were just like my friends. We all ran our mouths playing ball. Just part of the culture. The baggy shorts were great, end of the nut huggers!!

Yeah, I know about the mouth running, I always just thought it had more weight when you, I don't know, actually win something.

Did the Fab Five ever win anything in college?  Big Ten?  Nope.  National Title?  Nope.  Heck, did they ever win anything like the Maui Invitational?  That I don't know.

What I do know is that they liked to call guys like Calbert Cheaney and Grant Hill all sorts of racially divisive things while on the ball court all while getting their a$$e$ handed to them by the same.  Being brash when you are winning (Michael Jordan falls into that category) is one thing, but Michigan in those days was a bunch of talented guys whose focus on style led them to seriously underperform their abilities.  All flash and no substance, the best bunch of losers that money could buy.

Edited by IUCrazy2

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52 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Yeah, I know about the mouth running, I always just thought it had more weight when you, I don't know, actually win something.

Did the Fab Five ever win anything in college?  Big Ten?  Nope.  National Title?  Nope.  Heck, did they ever win anything like the Maui Invitational?  That I don't know.

What I do know is that they liked to call guys like Calbert Cheaney and Grant Hill all sorts of racially divisive things while on the ball court all while getting their a$$e$ handed to them by the same.  Being brash when you are winning (Michael Jordan falls into that category) is one thing, but Michigan in those days was a bunch of talented guys whose focus on style led them to seriously underperform their abilities.  All flash and no substance, the best bunch of losers that money could buy.

They "made" 2 Final Fours and an Elite 8 in 3 years. It's fine if you don't like their style, but calling them "..a bunch of losers" is stretching it.

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