Micheal Lewis hired at UCLA

[Hoosierhoopster]

15 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I just don't want one and done players on our team and if you look at all 3 that we had what good did they bring IU basketball.  I hope they eat, drink and sleep basketball and if they play hard and focus on our team then there is no problem but I have seen to many one and done players in college that is only out for themselves.

EJ brought a great deal of good -- we were 24-4 when, through no fault of EJ's, Sampson had our program wrecked. 

Are you placing blame on Romeo for this season? What good did he bring? He was outstanding, he played through an injury that needed surgery to his own detriment, he picked IU over basically any program, Duke et al, that otherwise would've gladly taken him, and won with him. He did a great deal of good for IU.

There are one-and-done types, like Vonleh, who don't work out and who maybe should be better vetted, although even in Vonleh's case that team had no shooting, due to the recruiting, and could have been very good with shooters around him. Generalizing about one and done types to me is off. There are plenty of elite kids who are one and done types that can and do help all kinds of teams, ours included.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

EJ brought a great deal of good -- we were 24-4 when, through no fault of EJ's, Sampson had our program wrecked. 

Are you placing blame on Romeo for this season? What good did he bring? He was outstanding, he played through an injury that needed surgery to his own detriment, he picked IU over basically any program, Duke et al, that otherwise would've gladly taken him, and won with him. He did a great deal of good for IU.

There are one-and-done types, like Vonleh, who don't work out and who maybe should be better vetted, although even in Vonleh's case that team had no shooting, due to the recruiting, and could have been very good with shooters around him. Generalizing about one and done types to me is off. There are plenty of elite kids who are one and done types that can and do help all kinds of teams, ours included.

All I care about is results and none of the 3 years we had one and done players we accomplished anything.  I think some of this years problems probably go back to how Romeo was perceived by his teammates and some of the possible internal problems was due to that.

[milehiiu]

10 hours ago, Cutter said:

I don’t care if we have an nba guy on staff or not. I really don’t want any oad or players who only care about getting to the nba. 

Cutter.  I believe you are my brother from another mother.  Can't tell you how much I agree with this post. 

[Steubenhoosier]

Agree with Hoopster. EJ did a helluva a lot of good until the whole thing feel apart. 

There are some fallacies that have been allowe'd to live on, on this board. One is that Vonleh was a bad egg/bad for the program. I did this once before, and don't have the time now, but his numbers during his one season were awfully damn good. He carried that team in many respects. Yes, he bailed on the team at the end.... something that we are now seeing more than a few players doing to protect themselves when a pro contract is near.

Romeo did everything that his body allowed him to do this past year. Ended up being an excellent player, despite his injuries. Probably as, or more important than his on floor results, Romeo's commitment sent a message to the entire state of Indiana that CAM was a coach that could be trusted to develop elite level in-state kids. I am positive that this message was heard loud and clear by TJD, and will carry through to the upcoming recruiting classes.

To say that OAD's are not good for our program is --shortsighted and a blanket statement that really is a disservice to these 3 kids who played their hearts out in the year they were in Bloomington. I would hate for any kid that has that level of elite talent to hear a message from Bloomington or this fan base that they are not welcome here.

[Cutter]

34 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Cutter.  I believe you are my brother from another mother.  Can't tell you how much I agree with this post. 

Lol thank you

[milehiiu]

In terms of OAD's.  Even Coach Miller has said it best. IMHO. To paraphrase : " We need to get older".

--------------------------------------------------------------

Hard to do that if you are continuing to go after known OAD's.  Two recent examples given in this thread.  Noah and Romeo.  I just have to ask.  What really did they  do to improve IU's program.  Long term ?

How many recruits came to IU to play with Noah, or Romeo, knowing that Noah and Romeo were self professed OAD's ? Both played with injuries.  Noah shut it down. At least Romeo played through his injury.  But still.  Long term.... what could Romeo do for IU's program long term, if he chose to stay, injury free ? 

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, milehiiu said:

In terms of OAD's.  Even Coach Miller has said it best. IMHO. To paraphrase : " We need to get older".

--------------------------------------------------------------

Hard to do that if you are continuing to go after known OAD's.  Two recent examples given in this thread.  Noah and Romeo.  I just have to ask.  What really did they  do to improve IU's program.  Long term ?

How many recruits came to IU to play with Noah, or Romeo, knowing that Noah and Romeo were self professed OAD's ? Both played with injuries.  Noah shut it down. At least Romeo played through his injury.  But still.  Long term.... what could Romeo do for IU's program long term, if he chose to stay, injury free ? 

Exactly who would you would have wanted one year of Romeo or maybe 3 years of Aaron Henry.  How about would you rather have one year of  Gordon or 4 years of Etwaun Moore.  It is jus tnot what the one and done player does in his 1 year at IU but who you might have been able to land who would be here longer.

[Steubenhoosier]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Exactly who would you would have wanted one year of Romeo or maybe 3 years of Aaron Henry.  How about would you rather have one year of  Gordon or 4 years of Etwaun Moore.  It is jus tnot what the one and done player does in his 1 year at IU but who you might have been able to land who would be here longer.

Yeah, this is a lazy argument. To really evaluate this, you’d need to also include whomever fills the scholarship opened when the OAD leaves. 

Scott, you look at things as though they are black and white. Try expanding your thought process to look at more than just the obvious 

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Yeah, this is a lazy argument. To really evaluate this, you’d need to also include whomever fills the scholarship opened when the OAD leaves. 

Scott, you look at things as though they are black and white. Try expanding your thought process to look at more than just the obvious 

No thank you I look at the things the right way

[Moyeneeded]

20 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

I'm with Rico on this. Lewis may have relationships with area coaches, but is he a huge draw for the kids themselves? He wasn't well known outside of our fan base and didn't have an NBA career. If you want to say that Cheaney should have a role like that, I agree.

And I could be dead wrong, but it's not an easy assumption that he would be a good recruiter in-state just because he is Michael Lewis.

Do you seriously think that any of the Knight era players have any draw to players today? Uhhhh noooo!

[milehiiu]

16 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Exactly who would you would have wanted one year of Romeo or maybe 3 years of Aaron Henry.  How about would you rather have one year of  Gordon or 4 years of Etwaun Moore.  It is jus tnot what the one and done player does in his 1 year at IU but who you might have been able to land who would be here longer.

I'll take any kid with talent, that wants to help build our program over any OAD. 

[Steubenhoosier]

23 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

No thank you I look at the things the right way

Glad that you were able to focus on the main point of my post 😒

[PoHoosier]

2 hours ago, milehiiu said:

I'll take any kid with talent, that wants to help build our program over any OAD. 

A program can be built with THE right one and done.  I emphasized THE as I would not want a team of them.  Reloading every year would be stressful for everyone and alienate fan bases every off year.

Sure, I prefer a team of 3 and 4 year guys, but to place a 'Me first' label on OADs is not always appropriate.  I am not saying you did that.  My point would be that if a OAD came in with that being his desire, places winning above that desire, then everything will work out.  I believe we have seen that at IU numerous times.

[IU Scott]

13 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Glad that you were able to focus on the main point of my post 😒

My thing is I would rather have a sophomore this year that has been in our system for a year instead of having Romeo for a year and having t replace him with another freshman.  I would rather have Henry who is a good player who will now be a sophomore who will help us this coming year.

[Steubenhoosier]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

My thing is I would rather have a sophomore this year that has been in our system for a year instead of having Romeo for a year and having t replace him with another freshman.  I would rather have Henry who is a good player who will now be a sophomore who will help us this coming year.

And you knew all this last year? That Romeo was definitely a OAD, and that Henry would be as good as he became?😗

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, Steubenhoosier said:

And you knew all this last year? That Romeo was definitely a OAD, and that Henry would be as good as he became?😗

Everyone knew Romeo was a one and done player and yes I thought Henry would be a solid player.

[Zlinedavid]

On 5/24/2019 at 7:01 PM, milehiiu said:

 

Hard to do that if you are continuing to go after known OAD's.  Two recent examples given in this thread.  Noah and Romeo.  I just have to ask.  What really did they  do to improve IU's program.  Long term ?

What did Romeo do for IU? For starters, he probably got TJD to take a closer look at us. Right, wrong or indifferent, kids follow trends. Getting that one premier recruit can often make the difference **emphasis** so long as you're not banking on that one recruit for one season,which Archie isn't.

Romeo playing at IU had as much to do with off the court situations as on. It immediately established Miller as a in-state force.

And because I said "Romeo" and "off the court" in the same sentence, before anyone brings up any of the "Romeo was a divisive presence on and off court" BS, I say...prove it. YOU as an individual may believe that, and nothing anyone may say will change your mind. Well, I may believe there's a purple leopard that hosts a baccarat game every Thursday in my attic. Doesn't mean that I'm right, and I can't offer any proof, but it's what I believe, dammit.

Long term, Romeo playing here did more good than harm.

[Zlinedavid]

On 5/25/2019 at 2:54 PM, IU Scott said:

Everyone knew Romeo was a one and done player and yes I thought Henry would be a solid player.

What if Archie CHOSE to focus on Hunter over Henry, and Hunter winds up being the better player? Can't recruit everyone.

 

[tdhoosier]

These arguments are always great in retrospect, but until we can travel 3-4 years into the future to see how these players develop - nobody knows, at the moment, if a OAD or lower rated player with potential to stay more than 2 years will be the better option. CTC thought he had ‘the next Olapido’ many times only for them to transfer and add to our unbalanced classes or to have them ride the pine and take up valuable scholarships for 4 years. 

In retrospect Henry seems like a great option for a good program player, but so did players like Hollowell. Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get. 

[jv1972iu]

On 5/24/2019 at 9:13 PM, IU Scott said:

No thank you I look at the things the right way

Well, now that says it all folks.   

[FWIUFan]

On 5/24/2019 at 9:22 PM, milehiiu said:

I'll take any kid with talent, that wants to help build our program over any OAD. 

I don't usually pay much attention to the recruiting scene.  I'm fine leaving that to CAM.  However, the talk regarding not wanting OAD players and their value is a bit disingenuous.  We all want the best talent and usually that means the OAD players may be at least part of the answer.  However, all the OAD's don't translate to be able to play D1 BB.  On the flip side, lower rated players can fly under the radar or develop later.  We all see this every year.  In fact, this is much of the reason I enjoy collegiate BB so much.  However, please don't try and convince me that the IUBB fans weren't chomping at the bit to get Romeo to IU once CTC left.  That would be pure Horse Hockey!  Of course we wanted him!  By all accounts, he is a great young man and represented IU well on and off the court. I am glad he came to IU. I would take his clone to return every year.  

I think what we really mean to imply is that we want the best players for CAM's system and thus the success of IUBB.  Young men with talent, character, and who will fit the style or system CAM wants to play.  1* or OAD is irrelevant.  I only care if the kid can play and wants to be representing IUBB.

[IU Scott]

20 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

I don't usually pay much attention to the recruiting scene.  I'm fine leaving that to CAM.  However, the talk regarding not wanting OAD players and their value is a bit disingenuous.  We all want the best talent and usually that means the OAD players may be at least part of the answer.  However, all the OAD's don't translate to be able to play D1 BB.  On the flip side, lower rated players can fly under the radar or develop later.  We all see this every year.  In fact, this is much of the reason I enjoy collegiate BB so much.  However, please don't try and convince me that the IUBB fans weren't chomping at the bit to get Romeo to IU once CTC left.  That would be pure Horse Hockey!  Of course we wanted him!  By all accounts, he is a great young man and represented IU well on and off the court. I am glad he came to IU. I would take his clone to return every year.  

I think what we really mean to imply is that we want the best players for CAM's system and thus the success of IUBB.  Young men with talent, character, and who will fit the style or system CAM wants to play.  1* or OAD is irrelevant.  I only care if the kid can play and wants to be representing IUBB.

I don't mind having one OAD but I don't want a roster full of them like UK and  Duke as because I don't think that is what college basketball is all about.

[milehiiu]

SO.  When I ask what OAD's ever did to improve IU's program long term. I am thinking of legendary things.  Things that either as an individual or a member of a special team sets them apart.  Things like the many times  we talk about individuals or individual performances that burn in our memory banks for years. And things that cause IU fans to recall and talk about for literally decades.  Things like Calbert Cheaney spending four years at IU. And setting the all time B1G career scoring record. A record which stands to this day.  Things like the "Watshot" at a time when the program was struggling, and IU beat the then number one team in the country, while IU was ranked 39 in this great nation of ours. A basket and victory, which many at the time considered a turning point for our program.    Or "The Shot" which won IU a National Championship. Or the '76 Hoosiers. Going undefeated for an entire season, and perhaps being the last D-1 team to do so.

Yep. Not a surprise that TJD and Romeo were friends. However, Romeo had other friends who chose not to come to IU.  Is that all we are going to remember Romeo for ?  Honestly not even a year after the last season ended, I am hard pressed to recall an on the court performance, that stands out in my mind. I do remember many ill advised 3 point shots that never went in. Yes, we all know Romeo was injured. But we have had many others like DJ White and too many others to list that played through injuries. And I am sure as time goes by, what memories of Romeo I do have ,are surely to fade.  Unlike the time I saw Jimmy Rayl hit 56 points in a game, twice.  That's what I am talking about. I highly doubt that we will be talking about Romeo, like we talk about Steve Alford as a player at IU.

As far as Noah is concerned. All I recall is his ball hogging the lane, while getting double and triple teamed. And never looking for the open man for an outlet pass.  While basically shutting it down at season's end in order to protect his NBA status.

IU is a storied program.  And until, and if we ever get a OAD who helps to take us to a National Championship, I will not allow any OAD into the mile ring of fame. 

[rico]

On 5/24/2019 at 9:15 PM, Moyeneeded said:

Do you seriously think that any of the Knight era players have any draw to players today? Uhhhh noooo!

And Steve Alford says hello.