Brass Cannon Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 36 minutes ago, rico said: Title IX does not apply here...but yeah, the women should be paid more and the USMNT needs to get their sh** together. Your right. Goof on my part. The equal pay act doesn’t care about supply and demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Hold up a minute. Didn't the article say that the USWNT's union negotiated the pay in a CBA, taking guaranteed money over pay simply by bonuses (like the men do)? And, I would assume that the union members voted to ratify the agreement, so the first bone to pick would be with their own union. If they want a different pay mechanism, go to the negotiating table. I'm all for equal pay for equal work. And I don't blame the USWNT for trying to "strike when the ironis hot" as far as pay issues go. I do have an issue with the accusations of unfairness for talking points to trigger an uninformed public... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Obie Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Hold up a minute. Didn't the article say that the USWNT's union negotiated the pay in a CBA, taking guaranteed money over pay simply by bonuses (like the men do)? And, I would assume that the union members voted to ratify the agreement, so the first bone to pick would be with their own union. If they want a different pay mechanism, go to the negotiating table. I'm all for equal pay for equal work. And I don't blame the USWNT for trying to "strike when the ironis hot" as far as pay issues go. I do have an issue with the accusations of unfairness for talking points to triggerban uninformed public... I had to google 'Triggerban' ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Hold up a minute. Didn't the article say that the USWNT's union negotiated the pay in a CBA, taking guaranteed money over pay simply by bonuses (like the men do)? And, I would assume that the union members voted to ratify the agreement, so the first bone to pick would be with their own union. If they want a different pay mechanism, go to the negotiating table. I'm all for equal pay for equal work. And I don't blame the USWNT for trying to "strike when the ironis hot" as far as pay issues go. I do have an issue with the accusations of unfairness for talking points to trigger an uninformed public... You can’t just say if you are unhappy blame their union. For all we know the federation offered this deal and told them to take it or leave it. Possibly even meaning it. And regardless of negotiations having a union doesn’t let them violate the equal pay act. Perhaps the men and women should have the same union. And they are going to the negotiating table. Or more specifically the mediation table. Most likely because US soccer knew they were going to lose and it looks less crappy to lose in mediation than litigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just now, Officer Obie said: I had to google 'Triggerban' ... Lol...typo...I fixed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Obie Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just now, IUFLA said: Lol...typo...I fixed it I was just having some fun.. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: You can’t just say if you are unhappy blame their union. For all we know the federation offered this deal and told them to take it or leave it. Possibly even meaning it. And regardless of negotiations having a union doesn’t let them violate the equal pay act. Perhaps the men and women should have the same union. And they are going to the negotiating table. Or more specifically the mediation table. Most likely because US soccer knew they were going to lose and it looks less crappy to lose in mediation than litigation Well let's see...the union negotiated the contract, the members ratified the contract...that's pretty simple...and I'm not sure why the men and women have different unions. But it's a complex issue. The way the men and women qualify for the world cup is vastly different. There's lots of moving parts here. Like I said, I have no issue with the players pushing their union back to the negotiation table to strike a better deal. A lot of players in a lot of sports do the same thing after a highly successful year. Another article that explains the pay for both the men and the women Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Well let's see...the union negotiated the contract, the members ratified the contract...that's pretty simple...and I'm not sure why the men and women have different unions. But it's a complex issue. The way the men and women qualify for the world cup is vastly different. There's lots of moving parts here. Like I said, I have no issue with the players pushing their union back to the negotiation table to strike a better deal. A lot of players in a lot of sports do the same thing after a highly successful year. Another article that explains the pay for both the men and the women Yeah they ratified it because they are professional athletes and they had no choice because otherwise they wouldn’t have been able to play the sport they have dedicated their lives to. As my dad learned when he lost his job because of a crappy union sometime a crappy deal is better than no deal Thay doesn’t mean that the deal wasn’t a violation of the law btw. All it really means is that the CBA is null because you can’t have a contract for something that breaks the law And they have separate unions precisely so people will dismiss their fight for equality by saying the negotiated their deal. Totally ignoring how the US federation can then handle the negotiations between the Women’s and men’s team separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Yeah they ratified it because they are professional athletes and they had no choice because otherwise they wouldn’t have been able to play the sport they have dedicated their lives to. As my dad learned when he lost his job because of a crappy union sometime a crappy deal is better than no deal Thay doesn’t mean that the deal wasn’t a violation of the law btw. All it really means is that the CBA is null because you can’t have a contract for something that breaks the law And they have separate unions precisely so people will dismiss their fight for equality by saying the negotiated their deal. Totally ignoring how the US federation can then handle the negotiations between the Women’s and men’s team separately. Read the article I linked. It's impossible to equate a 1 to 1 on this. There are some things to work out, but it's not the egregious crime against humanity that some are making it out to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Read the article I linked. It's impossible to equate a 1 to 1 on this. There are some things to work out, but it's not the egregious crime against humanity that some are making it out to be... I’ve read the article. The simple fact of the matter is that a significantly higher percentage of revenue from the US soccer federation is given to the men’s team. Despite the women’s team bringing in more money. I’m not saying it’s the 38% number that keeps going around but it’s not the same Perhaps each year the federation should give each team an equal pool of money and let them create their own pay structure Just an idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Well let me see..... Should the WNBA players make the same as the NBA players? Something to ponder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said: Well let me see..... Should the WNBA players make the same as the NBA players? Something to ponder. That’s such an over simplified attempt to discredit the USWNT position. The WNBA is a separate league with different leadership. The National teams are both part of the same organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 22 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: I’ve read the article. The simple fact of the matter is that a significantly higher percentage of revenue from the US soccer federation is given to the men’s team. Despite the women’s team bringing in more money. I’m not saying it’s the 38% number that keeps going around but it’s not the same Perhaps each year the federation should give each team an equal pool of money and let them create their own pay structure Just an idea So in your opinion... why does the federation so this if they do in fact bring in more money (that still hasn't been determined at all). The matches themselves only make up a quarter of the revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, btownqb said: So in your opinion... why does the federation so this if they do in fact bring in more money (that still hasn't been determined at all). The matches themselves only make up a quarter of the revenue. If by “hasn’t been determined” you mean “ignoring the several reports made over the last few years” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted July 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 IMO, Soccer is similar to, if not is, an Olympic sport. As such, Olympians get paid a flat amount depending on the medal they win. Sex doesn’t matter. More famous Olympians, Shaun White, Lindsey Vonn, Gabby Douglas, etc., make their real money on endorsements. Gymnasts, swimmers, figure skaters— the high profile sports, don’t get more than the wrestlers, archers or curlers, just because they draw more tv viewers or spectators. The USSF ought to embrace the same model. Pay every player the same flat amount regardless of sex, ability or “it” factor. Reward success by paying for advancement in the tournaments. So much for making it out of the group phase, advancing to the quarterfinals, semifinals, finals and winning it all. No differentiation between the men’s and women’s teams. Let the market dictate who holds additional value by way of endorsement dollars. The model is already in place. Soccer just needs to adapt to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: If by “hasn’t been determined” you mean “ignoring the several reports made over the last few years” So you didn't answer the question and HoosierFaithful posted a Washington Post article clearly outlining ALL of the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Obie Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: IMO, Soccer is similar to, if not is, an Olympic sport. As such, Olympians get paid a flat amount depending on the medal they win. Sex doesn’t matter. More famous Olympians, Shaun White, Lindsey Vonn, Gabby Douglas, etc., make their real money on endorsements. Gymnasts, swimmers, figure skaters— the high profile sports, don’t get more than the wrestlers, archers or curlers, just because they draw more tv viewers or spectators. The USSF ought to embrace the same model. Pay every player the same flat amount regardless of sex, ability or “it” factor. Reward success by paying for advancement in the tournaments. So much for making it out of the group phase, advancing to the quarterfinals, semifinals, finals and winning it all. No differentiation between the men’s and women’s teams. Let the market dictate who holds additional value by way of endorsement dollars. The model is already in place. Soccer just needs to adapt to it. This makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, btownqb said: So you didn't answer the question and HoosierFaithful posted a Washington Post article clearly outlining ALL of the facts. I didn’t answer the question because your unwillingness to admit that very basic fact shows you are bias on the subject and just opposed to equal pay regardless of the situation. And the reason the federation has done it is because they were able to get away with it. Most business don’t jump at the chance to pay more wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: I didn’t answer the question because your unwillingness to admit that very basic fact shows you are bias on the subject and just opposed to equal pay regardless of the situation. And the reason the federation has done it is because they were able to get away with it. Most business don’t jump at the chance to pay more wages. First of all.. I was wanting additional information on the subject that's why I posted the Twitter post to begin with. I mentioned in another post that the pay at least needs to be so the females can more of the bonus money. We still haven't heard from the Federation on it, so I was trying to wait to offer a full blown opinion on the matter until I had all of the information (that's what most people do). And again.. this isn't a black and white issue as far as revenue is concerned, at least that's exactly how the Post article stated it.. but it does appear to me that there at least needs to be a happy medium. Others have stated other ways for the money to be more equal and they seem like good ideas. As far as your other absolutely outlandish accusation, I will not comment on because Faithful has already mentioned we aren't going to be talking about that garbage, but I can PROMISE you that you should learn much more about someone than what you see on a message board before you ever say something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Brass Cannon said: I didn’t answer the question because your unwillingness to admit that very basic fact shows you are bias on the subject and just opposed to equal pay regardless of the situation. And the reason the federation has done it is because they were able to get away with it. Most business don’t jump at the chance to pay more wages. Most businesses don't have marketable employees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 I was not interested in Womens soccer or the pay gap until reading this thread. Came across this- https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/03/07/world-cup-soccer-pay-disparity-between-men-and-women-is-justified/#1daeef646da4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 Those of you that are more educated on economics than I am.. what does the term market realities mean? I am trying to look it up and cannot find a concrete definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 hours ago, btownqb said: Those of you that are more educated on economics than I am.. what does the term market realities mean? I am trying to look it up and cannot find a concrete definition. Surely some of those Kelley School of Business folks know....😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said: Surely some of those Kelley School of Business folks know....😁 I have a degree from the Great IU School of Buisness. Market Realities ? Can be complicated. Simple answer. A marketing term. Strike while the iron is hot. IE... Market while people are aware. Popularity can be fleeting. Take advantage of the time... or else lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 hours ago, btownqb said: Those of you that are more educated on economics than I am.. what does the term market realities mean? I am trying to look it up and cannot find a concrete definition. This is not a dictionary definition but the market is the supply and demand for talent. In this case, the wages for soccer players. They can only be paid based upon the revenues they generate. If you pay more than the "market" will bear, you will be overpaying and going into debt / bankruptcy. Forbes mentions the Mens World cup generated much more so the "market" allows them to get paid more. The women actually get a higher %- but from less revenues. Those are the "realities" of the market. As @NotIThatLives pointed out, you cannot pay Candace Parker what LeBron makes. That is the market reality. See Milehiiu's response above for another way to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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