Possibility of a platoon?

[Reacher]

Was just thinking with the depth we look to have, could we see more platoon type substitutions? I like the benefits that come with players getting used to their roles/ teammates.

Rob, Devonte, Jerome, Trayce, Davis

Al, Armann/ Damezi, Justin, Race, Joey

I like the mix of experience and skillsets with each group. Let the starters get roughly 25 min and the bench 15. 

Thoughts?

[tdhoosier]

Just now, Reacher said:

Was just thinking with the depth we look to have, could we see more platoon type substitutions? I like the benefits that come with players getting used to their roles/ teammates.

Rob, Devonte, Jerome, Trayce, Davis

Al, Armann/ Damezi, Justin, Race, Joey

I like the mix of experience and skillsets with each group. Let the starters get roughly 25 min and the bench 15. 

Thoughts?

Remember when we thought we had depth last year? Hopefully karma will dictate that we have very few injuries next year. 

I think there are way too many unknown to start talking about platoon subs. JMHO.

[Reacher]

Just now, tdhoosier said:

Remember when we thought we had depth last year? Hopefully karma will dictate that we have very few injuries next year. 

I think there are way too many unknown to start talking about platoon subs. JMHO.

Just doing my part to contribute to the 100 threads of off season talk about lineups!

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Was just thinking with the depth we look to have, could we see more platoon type substitutions? I like the benefits that come with players getting used to their roles/ teammates.

Rob, Devonte, Jerome, Trayce, Davis

Al, Armann/ Damezi, Justin, Race, Joey

I like the mix of experience and skillsets with each group. Let the starters get roughly 25 min and the bench 15. 

Thoughts?

Good conversation to start in the dead part of the off-season.

I'm not sure I see Justin Smith coming off the bench. I'd think he'd be a shoo-in starter.

I think the real competition will be at the 2 spot between Green and Hunter.

[IU Scott]

15 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Was just thinking with the depth we look to have, could we see more platoon type substitutions? I like the benefits that come with players getting used to their roles/ teammates.

Rob, Devonte, Jerome, Trayce, Davis

Al, Armann/ Damezi, Justin, Race, Joey

I like the mix of experience and skillsets with each group. Let the starters get roughly 25 min and the bench 15. 

Thoughts?

I never like a true platoon system where you sub all 5 at one time.  I want our best players on the floor for 32+ minutes a game like RP, Green and hopefully Jerome.

[tdhoosier]

2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Good conversation to start in the dead part of the off-season.

I'm not sure I see Justin Smith coming off the bench. I'd think he'd be a shoo-in starter.

I think the real competition will be at the 2 spot between Green and Hunter.

I think our best case scenario for a starting line-up:

RP - no explanation needed
Devonte - hope he matures into our leader and is our main PPG guy next season 
Hunter - Hopefully all the talk is not hype. Juwan said he and Romeo were the best freshmen (That means he's better than Rob and that would be an excellent thing)
TJD - Burger boy. Can he make that jump? There will be tough competition with Smith (who hasn't proved to me that he can play the 3)
De'ron - A healthy and imposing DD will be key in B1G play.

IF...a big IF...this comes to fruition and the players above hit their ceilings then out depth could give us a 'Platoon Light' substitution pattern with Brunk, Smith, Race and Al coming off the bench. I'd still prefer another dependable guard - not sure how much Damezi or Armaan will be able to contribute yet. 

 

[Reacher]

17 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Good conversation to start in the dead part of the off-season.

I'm not sure I see Justin Smith coming off the bench. I'd think he'd be a shoo-in starter.

I think the real competition will be at the 2 spot between Green and Hunter.

Actually I see him starting the first few games  but ideally like him as a sixth man

[Reacher]

8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I think our best case scenario for a starting line-up:

RP - no explanation needed
Devonte - hope he matures into our leader and is our main PPG guy next season 
Hunter - Hopefully all the talk is not hype. Juwan said he and Romeo were the best freshmen (That means he's better than Rob and that would be an excellent thing)
TJD - Burger boy. Can he make that jump? There will be tough competition with Smith (who hasn't proved to me that he can play the 3)
De'ron - A healthy and imposing DD will be key in B1G play.

IF...a big IF...this comes to fruition and the players above hit their ceilings then out depth could give us a 'Platoon Light' substitution pattern with Brunk, Smith, Race and Al coming off the bench. I'd still prefer another dependable guard - not sure how much Damezi or Armaan will be able to contribute yet. 

 

Exactly how I was looking at it.

[tdhoosier]

4 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Exactly how I was looking at it.

Looking at it again, I think our players are pretty interchangeable - I don't think we'll need mass substitutions. Maybe the only 2 players I can't imagine (at least now) on the floor at the same time are De'ron and Brunk. That said we have a lot of combinations that will work and I think our success hinges on Hunter and the development of Justin: a) can Hunter step in as a 2 and b) can Justin develop his shot enough to play more of a 3 to stretch the floor. If so, I think we'll see a whole bunch of different line-ups. 

I'm fairly certain we'll be solid defensively. It's the offense (specifically shooting) that worries me again. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

A few thoughts to throw into the mix --

Think Al is getting kind of overlooked. He started 30 of 34 games, was 3rd in minutes played, finished our 4th-leading scorer (8.3 ppg), shot 35% from the arc (2nd behind Green, who ended up at 41%), led the team in FT% (74%), was 4th in FT's attempted, 5th in assists, and 6th in steals. And he'll almost certainly come in better. He is solid and a real contributor.

Smith started 32 games. He started to get it together both on and off the floor, was 3rd in rebounds, and 5th in ppg. His shooting and FT averages, though, were low and comparatively. Off-season needs include improving his FT shooting and strength going to the rim, and handle. He can grow his game, and if he does it will make us a lot better overall.

Davis's 60% FGs led the team (of players who played real minutes). Love the idea of his slimming down and coming in healthy. He needs to improve his rebounding though -- finished behind both Green and Rob, and he shot FT's at 57%. 

-- can we just get the guys into a free throw clinic over the summer, lol??

[5fouls]

We should probably temper exectations on Jerome.  Even if he is cleared to play, there will be a lot of rust.

Justin should get first crack at keeping his starting job, but the leash should be very short.  

I think Devonte will have a huge year.  Really liked what he showed at the end of last season.

[Reacher]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

We should probably temper exectations on Jerome.  Even if he is cleared to play, there will be a lot of rust.

Justin should get first crack at keeping his starting job, but the leash should be very short.  

I think Devonte will have a huge year.  Really liked what he showed at the end of last season.

Agree on Smith on Devonte. 

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

A few thoughts to throw into the mix --

Think Al is getting kind of overlooked. He started 30 of 34 games, was 3rd in minutes played, finished our 4th-leading scorer (8.3 ppg), shot 35% from the arc (2nd behind Green, who ended up at 41%), led the team in FT% (74%), was 4th in FT's attempted, 5th in assists, and 6th in steals. And he'll almost certainly come in better. He is solid and a real contributor.

Smith started 32 games. He started to get it together both on and off the floor, was 3rd in rebounds, and 5th in ppg. His shooting and FT averages, though, were low and comparatively. Off-season needs include improving his FT shooting and strength going to the rim, and handle. He can grow his game, and if he does it will make us a lot better overall.

Davis's 60% FGs led the team (of players who played real minutes). Love the idea of his slimming down and coming in healthy. He needs to improve his rebounding though -- finished behind both Green and Rob, and he shot FT's at 57%. 

-- can we just get the guys into a free throw clinic over the summer, lol??

If Al and Justin start, that would likely mean Devonte and/ or Trayce and/or Jerome won't. 

I like both Al and Justin but think the team is best served with them coming off the bench. That assumes their replacements are deserving.. Maybe Jerome is rusty and Trayce takes awhile to get used to the speed of the college game. I'm hoping they they can move into starter roles sooner rather than later. If they don't, I don't see the team making much progress over last year. 

[tdhoosier]

11 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Agree on Smith on Devonte. 

If Al and Justin start, that would likely mean Devonte and/ or Trayce and/or Jerome won't. 

I like both Al and Justin but think the team is best served with them coming off the bench. That assumes their replacements are deserving.. Maybe Jerome is rusty and Trayce takes awhile to get used to the speed of the college game. I'm hoping they they can move into starter roles sooner rather than later. If they don't, I don't see the team making much progress over last year. 

This.

One of these 2 things will need to happen if next year's team is what everybody wants it to be (top of the big ten, border line top 25, securely in the tournament):

1.  TJD and Jerome need to be everything we hope for and more. With losing Romeo and Juwan, we need a severe talent upgrade

2. Al or Justin will need to make a HUGE (almost Oladipo-esque) leap in the off-season.

If not (or not a mix of the 2), we will be a bubble team again at best. I'm just hoping we aren't in the situation where the main reason for Al and Justin starting is because TJD and Jerome aren't ready. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

3 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

This.

One of these 2 things will need to happen if next year's team is what everybody wants it to be (top of the big ten, border line top 25, securely in the tournament):

1.  TJD and Jerome need to be everything we hope for and more. With losing Romeo and Juwan, we need a severe talent upgrade

2. Al or Justin will need to make a HUGE (almost Oladipo-esque) leap in the off-season.

If not (or not a mix of the 2), we will be a bubble team again at best. I'm just hoping we aren't in the situation where the main reason for Al and Justin starting is because TJD and Jerome aren't ready. 

Why do you think Al has to make huge leap? Again, lead the team in FT percentage, shot 35 recent from deep, 4th in scoring, 4th in FT attempts, etc. 

That doesn’t say needs a huge leap. Continued improvement, sure. He was minimally solid, he’s not expected or supposed to be the major points guy, and we will have scorers around him. I don’t see reason to say he has to make a huge leap. 

FWIW I am on the Hunter hype train. I think  he’s going to do very well 

[tdhoosier]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Why do you think Al has to make huge leap? Again, lead the team in FT percentage, shot 35 recent from deep, 4th in scoring, 4th in FT attempts, etc. 

That doesn’t say needs a huge leap. Continued improvement, sure. He was minimally solid, he’s not expected or supposed to be the major points guy, and we will have scorers around him. I don’t see reason to say he has to make a huge leap. 

FWIW I am on the Hunter hype train. I think  he’s going to do very well 

Huge leap if he’s going to surpass RP or ‘good Devonte’ on the depth chart and start. 

Again, what I wrote above is what I think it’s going to take for the team to reach their ceiling. (The ceiling in my eyes being securely in the tournament)

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

Huge leap if he’s going to surpass RP or ‘good Devonte’ on the depth chart and start. 

Again, what I wrote above is what I think it’s going to take for the team to reach their ceiling. (The ceiling in my eyes being securely in the tournament)

He started 30 of 34 games last season. He wasn’t competing for those spots. It will be interesting to see if we run similar positions or go big etc.

[FW_Hoosier]

26 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

He started 30 of 34 games last season. He wasn’t competing for those spots. It will be interesting to see if we run similar positions or go big etc.

Honestly RP and Green are probably the only locked-in starters for next season.  Hunter and Durham will probably be competing to start at the 3, and TJD, Smith, DeRon, and Brunk will be competing to start at the 4/5.

[Hoosierhoopster]

49 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Honestly RP and Green are probably the only locked-in starters for next season.  Hunter and Durham will probably be competing to start at the 3, and TJD, Smith, DeRon, and Brunk will be competing to start at the 4/5.

Makes for great competition and growth of depth 

[Reacher]

7 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Honestly RP and Green are probably the only locked-in starters for next season.  Hunter and Durham will probably be competing to start at the 3, and TJD, Smith, DeRon, and Brunk will be competing to start at the 4/5.

Starting 3 guards screws up the balance by position and negates our depth at the 3. While I'm sure we will see a small lineup at times, I think Archie will take advantage of the size and depth on the roster and, for the most part, play 2 guards, 2 bigs and a wing. 

Which circles back to my original question. Since we appear to have quality depth, do we see platoon tyoe rotations or does he try and always leave 2/3 starters out there. 

[NotIThatLives]

47 minutes ago, Reacher said:

our depth at the 3. 

In our opinion there's only maybe two guys that are clear-cut starters over the rest of the field so I get where your idea 4 conversation is coming from. We also thought we had great depth last year then the injuries happened.  it will most likely take a miracle for everyone to stay healthy and to run that platoon system.

Now the major head-scratcher for me, what is our great depth at the three?  I am extremely confused on that comment. We literally only have one guy who is a true 3 on this roster in Jerome Hunter. I guess you can make the argument that Justin Smith could be a 3 but he never play the three last year and when he floated out to the wing it was usually a disaster waiting to happen.  

Totally agree that our front court is going to be a very traditional lineup with Tracye at the four most likely and Davis or brunk in the 5 man spot.  So if Jerome is not a 100% go we are going to see a 3 guard lineup basically out of necessity all the time

[btownqb]

Won't platoon, no one does. TJD will start day 1. 

[Seeking6]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Won't platoon, no one does. TJD will start day 1. 

Agree. I'm amazed at people thinking TJD isn't starting day 1. Actually really, really surprised. People can cite Carolina or Kentucky or Duke as places where Burger Boys don't start right away (although even there still rare) but it would be coaching/recruiting suicide for Archie and IU if TJD didn't start right away. Add in the fact he's really good too. 

[NCHoosier32]

i'm the guy who always sticks with the best 5 guys need major minutes.  it's an old school mentality i realize.  coaches at all levels try to script subs more, not wear guys down, etc., etc.  i still say these guys are in college and in their prime.  they don't need much rest in games.  talent matters.  once you establish who your best 5 are, they need to play a lot of minutes.  then give 6-8 good solid minutes too.  9-10 play sparingly in a close game.  everyone else can sit during a close game.  i like Coach K's model.  he has a bench full of McD's AA that don't get in the games because he only plays 8 guys big minutes.    

[IUFLA]

I'm going to say a couple of thoughts I have that might be a tad controversial, but looking for differing opinions...

First, I think bringing Justin Smith off the bench would be a mistake. Not that I'm afraid his Pop would go on a Twitter blitzkrieg and sow seeds of discord. I just think Justin has a "starters mentality." Some guys are more effective coming off the bench, and to some, it doesn't matter (Devonte Green comes to mind...you get the same Devonte whether he starts or not), but I think Justin is more dialed in as a starter. The 3 games he didn't start last year (@Minn, Purdue, @Iowa) were all losses. Justin scored 6 points in the 3 games shooting 3-10 and grabbing 9 total rebounds and 6 TOs. When he returned to the starting lineup, he had 3 of his best games (Wisc, MSU, @Ill all wins) scoring 12, 24, and 15, and grabbing 17 boards and 2 TOs. I know that's a small sample, but I do think it illustrates the main point.

Let me preface this second opinion by saying, I love Al Durham. Love his passion and leadership. But I think if he's a starter on this year's team, we're middle of the pack B10 at best. Yes, his outside shot improved. Yes, he's a good FT shooter. Yes, he's a leader. But he's mediocre defensively, especially against strong kids, and he has a penchant for head-down drives that usually result in a blocked shot or a turnover. Good back-up player, but not a starter on an NCAA tournament team.

Just my 2 cents...

 

 

[Wayward1]

We need Justin to become a combo forward this offseason and learn to help at the 3. That would give Hunter/Anderson time to develop and would bring TJD in at the 4 right away.