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Steubenhoosier

Coaches on the hot seat

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https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/2019-college-football-hot-seat-rankings-evaluating-job-security-of-all-130-fbs-coaches/

 

Annual article that is always fun. Allen is in the "safe for now" category. Harbaugh, Lovie and the Rutgers coach, not so much. Interesting to see how these guys are evaluated.

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I like Allen a lot in terms of his defensive mind, his vision for the roster he wants, and his ability to recruit.  I think he made a great move with DeBoer as he seems like an innovative, advanced mind.  Allen is unbelievably likable.  

At some point, though, the rubber will meet the road when it comes to pulling in some W's.  He's got to pull out some of the games against the Purdue, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Maryland types of teams.  

I'd say that by the end of 2020, you'd like to have some good wins behind you.  It's been elusive so far.

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1 hour ago, Leathernecks said:

A bowl season, and Allen will be in the "safe and secure" category.  Less than a bowl season, and Allen could be in the "pressure is mounting" category.

Agreed. 3 years in a row of no bowl after what Wilson did would warm up his seat I’d guess. 

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1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I like Allen a lot in terms of his defensive mind, his vision for the roster he wants, and his ability to recruit.  I think he made a great move with DeBoer as he seems like an innovative, advanced mind.  Allen is unbelievably likable.  

At some point, though, the rubber will meet the road when it comes to pulling in some W's.  He's got to pull out some of the games against the Purdue, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, Maryland types of teams.  

I'd say that by the end of 2020, you'd like to have some good wins behind you.  It's been elusive so far.

I totally agree! Unless something special has happened to Ramsey. His next big decision will be who’s going to start at QB. 

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2 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

A bowl season, and Allen will be in the "safe and secure" category.  Less than a bowl season, and Allen could be in the "pressure is mounting" category.

Fair or unfair absolutely. Same for Archie. Has a P5 school ever had two openings at same time? Assuming Illinois has with the mess both their programs have been over the last 15 or so years.

And before the message board police come along and suggest I'm not giving coaches time,etc.....I am. Just an honest question. 

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4 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Fair or unfair absolutely. Same for Archie. Has a P5 school ever had two openings at same time? Assuming Illinois has with the mess both their programs have been over the last 15 or so years.

And before the message board police come along and suggest I'm not giving coaches time,etc.....I am. Just an honest question. 

I have complete faith in Allen (much more than Miller, but that's a different discussion), so I'm not really worried even if we do just miss a bowl.  I think the fan sentiment will be a little more negative, but I don't think his seat would be very warm from an administrative standpoint.

We didn't have openings at the same time, but we did hire both coaches within a few months of each other.  Illinois had the same thing in 2011/12.  Florida was the same in 14/15. After seeing those cases, I'm guessing the new football coach would be hired a while before the basketball coach is even fired, so the openings won't overlap.

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Allen will be fine.  Harbaugh is the one I am keeping an eye on.  Wolves fans are getting restless.  And the Bucknuts are loving it.

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11 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

I have complete faith in Allen (much more than Miller, but that's a different discussion), so I'm not really worried even if we do just miss a bowl.  I think the fan sentiment will be a little more negative, but I don't think his seat would be very warm from an administrative standpoint.

We didn't have openings at the same time, but we did hire both coaches within a few months of each other.  Illinois had the same thing in 2011/12.  Florida was the same in 14/15. After seeing those cases, I'm guessing the new football coach would be hired a while before the basketball coach is even fired, so the openings won't overlap.

What has Allen actually done to give you this faith? Just curious actually. I know recruiting is up but that could be a product of our assistants, facilities,etc....I know all of us are different fans, people....but if Allen misses a bowl for the 3rd straight year sorry....I've got plenty concern coming and most I know are feeling the same way.

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Recruiting is way up, our defense has become a strength, we paid to keep an elite S&C team, and have a stable of high potential QBs.   But what I find must encouraging is his willingness to course correct at OC, and recognize he needed to hand over the reigns at DC to a trusted source.

Add the apparent genuine caring he has for his players, and the absolute devotion that has been stated by his players, and that is a recipe for good things to come.  

Still gotta get the wins for sure, but we're talking 1 game to go from 5-7 to 6-6.  We can't move to the West, so this has to be built on a very strong foundation to have talent AND depth.

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17 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Agreed. 3 years in a row of no bowl after what Wilson did would warm up his seat I’d guess. 

Not seeing this.  IU has been to three bowl games since 1993.  Kevin Wilson lead IU to one bowl.  How does all that translate into Allen being in trouble if we miss out on a bowl this year??

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2 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

Not seeing this.  IU has been to three bowl games since 1993.  Kevin Wilson lead IU to one bowl.  How does all that translate into Allen being in trouble if we miss out on a bowl this year??

He lead them to two. He didn’t coach the second one but he got them there. 

It all depends on how long Allen’s leash is. With a third missed bowl game, I’d think that would hurt recruiting quite a bit don’t you?

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13 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

He lead them to two. He didn’t coach the second one but he got them there. 

It all depends on how long Allen’s leash is. With a third missed bowl game, I’d think that would hurt recruiting quite a bit don’t you?

No, not with the recruiting trajectory.  As long as that continues in a positive direction they will get a chance to develop these kids.  

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14 minutes ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

No, not with the recruiting trajectory.  As long as that continues in a positive direction they will get a chance to develop these kids.  

How many years do you think Allen gets at minimum?

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2 hours ago, Hoosierinbham said:

Recruiting is way up, our defense has become a strength, we paid to keep an elite S&C team, and have a stable of high potential QBs.   But what I find must encouraging is his willingness to course correct at OC, and recognize he needed to hand over the reigns at DC to a trusted source.

Add the apparent genuine caring he has for his players, and the absolute devotion that has been stated by his players, and that is a recipe for good things to come.  

Still gotta get the wins for sure, but we're talking 1 game to go from 5-7 to 6-6.  We can't move to the West, so this has to be built on a very strong foundation to have talent AND depth.

Great post. I love how Allen is building the program. Not worried if we even miss a bowl this year. It’s not hard to tell the program is getting better and Give him a chance to develop his players. Same with Archie. Everyone needs to chill. Sorry but Gets annoying. 

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4 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

What has Allen actually done to give you this faith? Just curious actually. I know recruiting is up but that could be a product of our assistants, facilities,etc....I know all of us are different fans, people....but if Allen misses a bowl for the 3rd straight year sorry....I've got plenty concern coming and most I know are feeling the same way.

If we had a better OC the last 2 years, I think we were easily in bowls, and Allen is talked about as one of our best coaches ever.  We have one now, so I think we're set up really nicely.  I'll list some of my favorite things.

  • Allen has shown to run a really good defense.  I think last year's poor defense was a combination of youth and being beat down by our offense sucking after a big stop (see Purdue game).  Wommack learned the same scheme from the same person, so it will almost be like we still have Allen at DC.  Kind of like in Beerfest when the one guy dies and his twin brother steps onto the team haha.
  • I like how he knows all aspects of the game are important like special teams, even though they were bad last year.  I expect him to have more of a hand in special teams this year now that he gave up DC responsibilities.
  • Fantastic recruiter.  I also like how he doesn't just lie and blow smoke to get recruits.  I hate the shady tactics that Fleck does in Minnesota and all the decommits they have been having.  Allen sells a true family atmosphere, and kids want to stick around.  Almost every recruit we get talks about the family atmosphere that we have.  Even if an assistant is the main one doing the recruiting, that family atmosphere comes from the top down.
  • Allen seems to have an ability to attract excellent assistants.  DeBoer is a great get.  Wommack seems like an up and comer.  The strength and conditioning coaches are some of the best in the country.  Hart is fantastic.  Nick Sheridan is really well respected.  I have confidence that if we need to make a change at an assistant position that we'll get an excellent coach.
  • I really like that he isn't too arrogant to change.  If he sees something he doesn't like, he's going to fix it.  I firmly believe Allen told DeBord to take a hike.  You could tell at the end of last year that he was getting pissed about the offense.  Allen isn't afraid to change the things he's doing if he sees something needs fixed.
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3 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

If we had a better OC the last 2 years, I think we were easily in bowls, and Allen is talked about as one of our best coaches ever.  We have one now, so I think we're set up really nicely.  I'll list some of my favorite things.

  • Allen has shown to run a really good defense.  I think last year's poor defense was a combination of youth and being beat down by our offense sucking after a big stop (see Purdue game).  Wommack learned the same scheme from the same person, so it will almost be like we still have Allen at DC.  Kind of like in Beerfest when the one guy dies and his twin brother steps onto the team haha.
  • I like how he knows all aspects of the game are important like special teams, even though they were bad last year.  I expect him to have more of a hand in special teams this year now that he gave up DC responsibilities.
  • Fantastic recruiter.  I also like how he doesn't just lie and blow smoke to get recruits.  I hate the shady tactics that Fleck does in Minnesota and all the decommits they have been having.  Allen sells a true family atmosphere, and kids want to stick around.  Almost every recruit we get talks about the family atmosphere that we have.  Even if an assistant is the main one doing the recruiting, that family atmosphere comes from the top down.
  • Allen seems to have an ability to attract excellent assistants.  DeBoer is a great get.  Wommack seems like an up and comer.  The strength and conditioning coaches are some of the best in the country.  Hart is fantastic.  Nick Sheridan is really well respected.  I have confidence that if we need to make a change at an assistant position that we'll get an excellent coach.
  • I really like that he isn't too arrogant to change.  If he sees something he doesn't like, he's going to fix it.  I firmly believe Allen told DeBord to take a hike.  You could tell at the end of last year that he was getting pissed about the offense.  Allen isn't afraid to change the things he's doing if he sees something needs fixed.

Agree with most of what you've outlined....but at end of the day we need to see some W results. I've had some employees that exemplify everything I want but if you aren't hitting the marks. They unfortunately end up firing themselves. Have to deliver soon. I'm all fine for another year or two but if he misses bowl this year. I cut/paste this from another board. 

Brohm takes Purdue Bowl games in years 1 and 2
Campbell takes Iowa State to bowl games in years 2 and 3
Mendenhall takes Virginia to bowl games in years 2 an 3
Babers takes Syracuse to a bowl game and 10 wins in year 3
Leach took WSU to a bowl game in year 2

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2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Agree with most of what you've outlined....but at end of the day we need to see some W results. I've had some employees that exemplify everything I want but if you aren't hitting the marks. They unfortunately end up firing themselves. Have to deliver soon. I'm all fine for another year or two but if he misses bowl this year. I cut/paste this from another board. 

Brohm takes Purdue Bowl games in years 1 and 2
Campbell takes Iowa State to bowl games in years 2 and 3
Mendenhall takes Virginia to bowl games in years 2 an 3
Babers takes Syracuse to a bowl game and 10 wins in year 3
Leach took WSU to a bowl game in year 2

None of them play in BIG Ten East 

PU Big Ten West- not the greatest 

Virignia ACC- has one top team rest conference is very meh 

Syracuse- Same

WSU- Pack 12 is terrible 

lot easier to make early bowl games in those circumstances. IU program is headed in right direction and if something needs to change to improve it Allen is willing to do it. 

Edited by 5 championships

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1 minute ago, 5 championships said:

None of them play in BIG Ten East 

Understand. It's a real reason and sometimes real excuse. Guess the way I view it is get over the hump. If not. Find someone who can. 

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7 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Understand. It's a real reason and sometimes real excuse. Guess the way I view it is get over the hump. If not. Find someone who can. 

I edited my original post. Allen is a fantastic coach with a program that has been not very good for a long time stuck in college football toughest division. Plus once he gets it rolling unlike Brohm he is here to stay. I really like where program is headed I see improvements I really like and I understand it’s going to take patience to finally get some W’s over Michigan State, Ohio Stste, Penn State, Michigan who’s entire school has been built around football for years. Playing those teams beats the crap out you. It’s going to take time to build up the skill and more depth but will get there 

Edited by 5 championships

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59 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

I edited my original post. Allen is a fantastic coach with a program that has been not very good for a long time stuck in college football toughest division. Plus once he gets it rolling unlike Brohm he is here to stay. I really like where program is headed I see improvements I really like and I understand it’s going to take patience to finally get some W’s over Michigan State, Ohio Stste, Penn State, Michigan who’s entire school has been built around football for years. Playing those teams beats the crap out you. It’s going to take time to build up the skill and more depth but will get there 

And I'm not saying to this to be a wise a-- or whatever....but when I and plenty of others keep hearing the "it's going to take time" mantra. Our skin crawls. Maybe it's just me. 

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Well, the other option is to take a team that has been one of the worst teams in college football history and expect it to magically start regularly slaying the big boys in possibly the toughest division in college football--at a place where big name coaches never want to come.

I'm willing to be patient with Tom Allen, because I like what he's doing and how he is doing it.

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1 hour ago, 5 championships said:

None of them play in BIG Ten East 

PU Big Ten West- not the greatest 

Virignia ACC- has one top team rest conference is very meh 

Syracuse- Same

WSU- Pack 12 is terrible 

lot easier to make early bowl games in those circumstances. IU program is headed in right direction and if something needs to change to improve it Allen is willing to do it. 

Purdue had a harder schedule last year than IU though. 

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