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First Car, Worst Car, Favorite Car


IUFLA

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3 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I have owned 5 Kia's and will own more I am sure. Nothing but positive from me. My grandfather who passed several years ago, but when i bought my first Kia in 2003 he said he would take me to any dealership and put me in a GM and take care of the difference. He fought in Korean and could not believe that I bought one. I told him if (at the time) GM had anything on the market that cold give me the mileage and look as nice I would take him on it. 200K miles later I traded that Optima in for a new Kia Sedona. 

The American car manufactures rested on their belief in the 50's and 60's that the public would buy what ever crap they decided to put into the market place. Just look at GM for example.  A Chevy that was a Pontiac, that was an Olds, Buick and Cadillac.  All very same to the other. With a higher price. But with little to no innovation.

Then came the Japanese products. Innovative.  Reliable. Less costly (at the time). And over time. America took notice. And started buying more and more Toyota's, Subaru's and Datsun's ( Nisson's).

When Kia and Hyundai were first introduced to America. Quite frankly. They were both crap products.  However, unlike America's big three who felt they could continue forcing crap products down the mouths of American's. The Korean manufacturers went back to the drawing board. And have come up with some of the most attractive and reliable products in America today.

And the big three. Only now. Is seeing the light. And beginning to catch up to the Asian imports.

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10 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Reminds me of the time I drove my 1992 Mazda MPV into my uncle's (who fought in Pearl Harbor...USS Raleigh) driveway...

I had some splainin to do...

I've got a related story.  A number of years back. Driving our Subaru from Denver to Chicago one Summer.  Stopped for gas in North Platte, Nebraska.  Got chased out of the station, by a red neck, driving a raised Chevy pickup, waiving a rifle at me and my family.  Saying: "Get that Jap piece of.... out of here !" 

Never stopped in North Platte ever again.  LOL

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8 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

I've got a related story.  A number of years back. Driving our Subaru from Denver to Chicago one Summer.  Stopped for gas in North Platte, Nebraska.  Got chased out of the station, by a red neck, driving a raised Chevy pickup, waiving a rifle at me and my family.  Saying: "Get that Jap piece of.... out of here !" 

Never stopped in North Platte ever again.  LOL

I spent the night in North Platte once, on my way to better places.  I remember it being dirty. 

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4 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I spent the night in North Platte once, on my way to better places.  I remember it being dirty. 

My wife spent the weekend there, just two weeks back. With a friend who lives there.  Said I had to stay home to take care of the dogs.  But asked my wife not to spend any money there, because of what happened years before.    LOL

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2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

I have owned 5 Kia's and will own more I am sure. Nothing but positive from me. My grandfather who passed several years ago, but when i bought my first Kia in 2003 he said he would take me to any dealership and put me in a GM and take care of the difference. He fought in Korean and could not believe that I bought one. I told him if (at the time) GM had anything on the market that cold give me the mileage and look as nice I would take him on it. 200K miles later I traded that Optima in for a new Kia Sedona. 

I absolutely agree. Hyundai bought Kia Motors in 1997, which wound up being a turning point for both. I own a 2011 Santa Fe with almost 200K on the clock, no major issues and few minor ones.

Now, pre 1997 Kias were a different story. Difficult to troubleshoot and expensive to fix.

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2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

My grandpa also worked 40 plus years at the GM plant in Norwood, OH.  I was in double trouble

Have a coworker whose mom did the same. Have another whose dad retired from Lordstown, OH. Hell, my dad worked for a Cadillac dealership for 11 years.

But the flip side of that issue, I grew up near Princeton. I currently live near Georgetown, KY. The people I know that made/make a living from Toyota is in the hundreds. In today's world, something as complex as an automobile is never going to be 100% sourced in 1 country. It may not carry an traditionally American nameplate, but my Hyundai's final assembly was in West Point, GA. Its powertrain was assembled in Birmingham, AL. I know that the creation of my car directly involved American jobs, and that checks the box for me.

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2 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

I absolutely agree. Hyundai bought Kia Motors in 1997, which wound up being a turning point for both. I own a 2011 Santa Fe with almost 200K on the clock, no major issues and few minor ones.

Now, pre 1997 Kias were a different story. Difficult to troubleshoot and expensive to fix.

Sold my 05 Sedona with 328k

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4 hours ago, milehiiu said:

The American car manufactures rested on their belief in the 50's and 60's that the public would buy what ever crap they decided to put into the market place. Just look at GM for example.  A Chevy that was a Pontiac, that was an Olds, Buick and Cadillac.  All very same to the other. With a higher price. But with little to no innovation.

Then came the Japanese products. Innovative.  Reliable. Less costly (at the time). And over time. America took notice. And started buying more and more Toyota's, Subaru's and Datsun's ( Nisson's).

When Kia and Hyundai were first introduced to America. Quite frankly. They were both crap products.  However, unlike America's big three who felt they could continue forcing crap products down the mouths of American's. The Korean manufacturers went back to the drawing board. And have come up with some of the most attractive and reliable products in America today.

And the big three. Only now. Is seeing the light. And beginning to catch up to the Asian imports.

All very true. I still have a hard time trying to talk myself into buying from an American automaker.

Right now, we have a 2014 Toyota Camry, a 2011 Toyota Tundra (which has a sticker in the back window that states "Built in Texas, Made by Texans") and a 2018 Nissan Maxima (my attempt to strike a balance between practicality and "I ain't dead yet!"...a lot of fun to drive).

I've just had much better luck with Japanese automakers. Never a major issue.

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21 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

All very true. I still have a hard time trying to talk myself into buying from an American automaker.

Right now, we have a 2014 Toyota Camry, a 2011 Toyota Tundra (which has a sticker in the back window that states "Built in Texas, Made by Texans") and a 2018 Nissan Maxima (my attempt to strike a balance between practicality and "I ain't dead yet!"...a lot of fun to drive).

I've just had much better luck with Japanese automakers. Never a major issue.

You sir.  Are the reason why the American car manufacturers are still attempting to make up for their attitude of the 50's and 60's.  We Americans did not know different. Until. A better product came along.  A revolution. So to speak. That Americans woke up to. And embraced. 

Got my Consumer Reports annual Car Issue a month or so back. Even they rate non traditional autos at the top. Non tradition. Can't say imports any more. Only because the Asian companies saw the light. And rather than spending money to ship cars to the U.S. Felt it would be more cost effective. Long run. To build their cars is in the U.S.  Truly. A win win situation for America, and American consumers.  This thread proves we all love our cars. But most importantly. Cars that perform.

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5 hours ago, milehiiu said:

The American car manufactures rested on their belief in the 50's and 60's that the public would buy what ever crap they decided to put into the market place. Just look at GM for example.  A Chevy that was a Pontiac, that was an Olds, Buick and Cadillac.  All very same to the other. With a higher price. But with little to no innovation.

Then came the Japanese products. Innovative.  Reliable. Less costly (at the time). And over time. America took notice. And started buying more and more Toyota's, Subaru's and Datsun's ( Nisson's).

Spent 17 years in the auto industry dealing directly with the BIG 3 as well as Japanese imports. Including working directly with Toyota. Building on your first comment it was well known that when it came to negotiation times the UAW would go after the weakest of the 3, usually Chrysler, once they negotiated the best deal they could they then challenged the other two to match! Most times they caved with the belief that they were still competitive with the other two? Hence the outrageous pensions and such that required government bail out after 2008. (seriously, floor sweepers were making better than I can imagine in retirement) When the 80's came around and the imports proved themselves to be equal or superior, the whole game changed! It's not just management to blame for the downfall of American automobiles! Have to say they are making some serious comebacks lately! 

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1 hour ago, Drroogh said:

Have to say they are making some serious comebacks lately! 

I'd give you that. Until they axed it, the Ford Fusion was a solid Camry/Accord competitor. GM did a great job turning Cadillac back around, and even their mainline cars were improved.

The one thing that got me was how GM managed their brands. I understand some of the rationale behind killing Saturn, Pontiac and Oldsmobile. They had a ton of market overlap. But then they keep the clones of Chevrolet Trucks and GMC? And the rationale behind keeping Buick in North America was that it held such market share in China? GM has brands that exist outside only of North America now.

To me, it made more sense to keep Chevrolet, Saturn, and Cadillac.

Brand positioning: Chevrolet is basic, economical, traditional. Cadillac is the pinnacle of sport and performance. Saturn is fun, modern, experimental, with touches of both sport and luxury. GMCs lineup gets folded into either Saturn (crossovers/small SUVs) or Cadillac (mid/full size SUVs). No sense in offering 2 brands of pickup.

Why kill Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile? Because to most of my generation and all of younger generations, there's no difference, and they're all tainted. Pontiac still had a few fun offerings, but most of their lineup was Chevy clones. It wasn't a truly sport focused brand the way it was up until the 70s. And there wasn't much difference between Buick and Oldsmobile at all. The reputation of Buick being sport-luxury and Olds being the quirky, experimental test bed for Cadillac were also long gone.

 

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7 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

I'd give you that. Until they axed it, the Ford Fusion was a solid Camry/Accord competitor. GM did a great job turning Cadillac back around, and even their mainline cars were improved.

The one thing that got me was how GM managed their brands. I understand some of the rationale behind killing Saturn, Pontiac and Oldsmobile. They had a ton of market overlap. But then they keep the clones of Chevrolet Trucks and GMC? And the rationale behind keeping Buick in North America was that it held such market share in China? GM has brands that exist outside only of North America now.

To me, it made more sense to keep Chevrolet, Saturn, and Cadillac.

Brand positioning: Chevrolet is basic, economical, traditional. Cadillac is the pinnacle of sport and performance. Saturn is fun, modern, experimental, with touches of both sport and luxury. GMCs lineup gets folded into either Saturn (crossovers/small SUVs) or Cadillac (mid/full size SUVs). No sense in offering 2 brands of pickup.

Why kill Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile? Because to most of my generation and all of younger generations, there's no difference, and they're all tainted. Pontiac still had a few fun offerings, but most of their lineup was Chevy clones. It wasn't a truly sport focused brand the way it was up until the 70s. And there wasn't much difference between Buick and Oldsmobile at all. The reputation of Buick being sport-luxury and Olds being the quirky, experimental test bed for Cadillac were also long gone.

 

Pretty much spot on!! I remember attending a vendor summit for Ford some thirty years ago! They actually admitted that several model lines (Lincoln, Ford, Mercury) were actually in competition  with each other!

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8 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

And there wasn't much difference between Buick and Oldsmobile at all. 

 

Under the covers, not much at all. I had a 77 Olds Cutlass that needed a new starter. When I got it up on the jack stands and got the old starter off, the mounting bolts were directly across from each other. I pulled out the new one I had bought at Auto Zone, and the mounting bolts were offset.

Had a neighbor take me back to Auto Zone, and after explaining to the guy he'd given me the wrong starter, he brought out a Buick starter that looked exactly like the one I was replacing.

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34 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Under the covers, not much at all. I had a 77 Olds Cutlass that needed a new starter. When I got it up on the jack stands and got the old starter off, the mounting bolts were directly across from each other. I pulled out the new one I had bought at Auto Zone, and the mounting bolts were offset.

Had a neighbor take me back to Auto Zone, and after explaining to the guy he'd given me the wrong starter, he brought out a Buick starter that looked exactly like the one I was replacing.

At a time we had both an Olds and Buick in the family. I ran out the door to get into the Olds. But had taken the Buick keys.  That's when I learned we did not need key tags for each car.  As they we interchangeable between the Olds and Buick.  Then the thought came to me.  How many cars were stolen with keys that worked on more than one car.

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