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5fouls

Indiana High School Football (2019)

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I'll admit that I am not nearly as big of a high school football junkie as I am basketball, but during the season, I still find myself on most Friday nights during the season attending the games at the school my kids attend.

It's still several weeks before the high school season starts, and I'm not sure how active this thread will be, but even with no games going on, I think there are some interesting topics that can be discussed.

  • Is Indiana, specifically the Indianapolis area, an underrated hotbed of football talent?
  • North versus South.  Virtually all of the powerhouse programs in the state are located in the Indy metro area and northward.  This is the case in all 6 class levels.  What are the reasons for the disparity?  
  • Program contraction.  It's becoming an issue.  There are more programs folding due to low numbers and expense than there are programs being added.  I was at a game last season where the opposing team dressed less than 20 players (and it was not a 1A school).
  • Is a 6 class system the best approach (versus 4 classes in other sports)?  The 'plan' is for classes 1A-4A to have 64 teams each, class 6A to have 32 teams, and class 5A to make up the difference.  Contraction and success factor has skewed those numbers slightly, but those numbers generally hold true.

Anyway, as I said, several weeks until the season starts, but thought we could have some conversation before then.  Once the games begin, it would be interesting to hear about the teams in your area, even if you do not attend the games.  Who are the teams to watch?  Any elite talent?, etc.

As he does with basketball, John Harrell has a great website that I use to keep up with what is going on.  A link is provided below.

  https://indianahsfootball.homestead.com/

 

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2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I'll admit that I am not nearly as big of a high school football junkie as I am basketball, but during the season, I still find myself on most Friday nights during the season attending the games at the school my kids attend.

It's still several weeks before the high school season starts, and I'm not sure how active this thread will be, but even with no games going on, I think there are some interesting topics that can be discussed.

  • Is Indiana, specifically the Indianapolis area, an underrated hotbed of football talent?
  • North versus South.  Virtually all of the powerhouse programs in the state are located in the Indy metro area and northward.  This is the case in all 6 class levels.  What are the reasons for the disparity?  
  • Program contraction.  It's becoming an issue.  There are more programs folding due to low numbers and expense than there are programs being added.  I was at a game last season where the opposing team dressed less than 20 players (and it was not a 1A school).
  • Is a 6 class system the best approach (versus 4 classes in other sports)?  The 'plan' is for classes 1A-4A to have 64 teams each, class 6A to have 32 teams, and class 5A to make up the difference.  Contraction and success factor has skewed those numbers slightly, but those numbers generally hold true.

Anyway, as I said, several weeks until the season starts, but thought we could have some conversation before then.  Once the games begin, it would be interesting to hear about the teams in your area, even if you do not attend the games.  Who are the teams to watch?  Any elite talent?, etc.

As he does with basketball, John Harrell has a great website that I use to keep up with what is going on.  A link is provided below.

  https://indianahsfootball.homestead.com/

 

- I think Indiana is an under-rated vault of football talent, specifically the Indy area(Fort Wayne ain't too shabby).

- As far as North vs. South that is a tough one.  Perhaps my way that ND, UM, and MSU are followed?

-  Program contraction maybe due to the increased interest in soccer and the low money investment there?

-  I don't like the 6 class system, but I see why it exists.  And I dont have a solution to it.

As far as my area, nothing that I think is a state caliber championship team.  But the season is not upon us yet.

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My guess with no evidence to support it is that contraction isn’t a money issue.  It’s a concussion issue.  Anyone who has ever had a child play travel soccer knows the financial investment is large.

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28 minutes ago, rico said:

-  I don't like the 6 class system, but I see why it exists.  And I dont have a solution to it.

 

What the 6 class system does is:

  • Keeps the postseason to 6 weeks.  If you had more than 64 teams in a class, it would require another week to get to a champion.  And, if football season goes into December, you are interfering with basketball.
  • The alternative, if you had more than 64 in a class, would be to not invite everyone to the state tournament.  For example, if you had 80 per class, only invite the top 64 based on computer rankings.  While that would eliminate a lot of the mismatches we see early in the tournament, it would create a lot of problems with scheduling if sectional lineups are not set in advance.  

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1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

What the 6 class system does is:

  • Keeps the postseason to 6 weeks.  If you had more than 64 teams in a class, it would require another week to get to a champion.  And, if football season goes into December, you are interfering with basketball.
  • The alternative, if you had more than 64 in a class, would be to not invite everyone to the state tournament.  For example, if you had 80 per class, only invite the top 64 based on computer rankings.  While that would eliminate a lot of the mismatches we see early in the tournament, it would create a lot of problems with scheduling if sectional lineups are not set in advance.  

Am I right in thinking the first time they had the sectional system there were only 4 classes?

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Just now, rico said:

Am I right in thinking the first time they had the sectional system there were only 4 classes?

I'm not sure it was 4.  But, I do know they only had 5 for many years, but then the number of teams participating outgrew that setup.

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8 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'm not sure it was 4.  But, I do know they only had 5 for many years, but then the number of teams participating outgrew that setup.

I am pretty sure it was 4 in '86.  I played for 3 years under a play-off system and my senior year under the cluster system(which pretty much was a sectional during the regular season).

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28 minutes ago, rico said:

Am I right in thinking the first time they had the sectional system there were only 4 classes?

I believe that is correct. I want to say the move to 4 A was in the fall of 1985?

Edited by thirdgenhoosier

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15 minutes ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

I believe that is correct. I want to say the move to 4 A was in the fall of 1985?

Yes that would be my thinking...I graduated in June of '85.  My alma mater won the state title in '86.  

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3 minutes ago, rico said:

Yes that would be my thinking...I graduated in June of '85.  My alma mater won the state title in '86.  

I was a junior on the team that beat Snider in 86.  Vaughn Dunbar was the best player I ever played against.

I agree that the state is undervalued when it comes to football talent.  We are seeing a lot more big schools recruit Indiana than we ever used to.

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11 minutes ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

I was a junior on the team that beat Snider in 86.  Vaughn Dunbar was the best player I ever played against.

I agree that the state is undervalued when it comes to football talent.  We are seeing a lot more big schools recruit Indiana than we ever used to.

Carmel?

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6 minutes ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

Yes sir.

What does that ring look like?

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Of the 32 schools in Class 6A, only two of them are south of the Indianapolis Metro area.  And, one of them, Columbus East, is only in 6A due to getting bumped up because of success factor.  Columbus North is the only school South of Indy, enrollment wise, that qualifies for 6A.  By moving up for success, Columbus East bumped another southern school, Jeffersonville, down to 5A.  When the Elkhart schools consolidate after this school year, Zionsville gets bumped down to 5A.

http://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/quick resources/Enrollments & Classifications/2019-20, 2020-21 Football Alignment.pdf

 

 

Edited by 5fouls

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14 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I'll admit that I am not nearly as big of a high school football junkie as I am basketball, but during the season, I still find myself on most Friday nights during the season attending the games at the school my kids attend.

It's still several weeks before the high school season starts, and I'm not sure how active this thread will be, but even with no games going on, I think there are some interesting topics that can be discussed.

  • Is Indiana, specifically the Indianapolis area, an underrated hotbed of football talent?
  • North versus South.  Virtually all of the powerhouse programs in the state are located in the Indy metro area and northward.  This is the case in all 6 class levels.  What are the reasons for the disparity?  
  • Program contraction.  It's becoming an issue.  There are more programs folding due to low numbers and expense than there are programs being added.  I was at a game last season where the opposing team dressed less than 20 players (and it was not a 1A school).
  • Is a 6 class system the best approach (versus 4 classes in other sports)?  The 'plan' is for classes 1A-4A to have 64 teams each, class 6A to have 32 teams, and class 5A to make up the difference.  Contraction and success factor has skewed those numbers slightly, but those numbers generally hold true.

Anyway, as I said, several weeks until the season starts, but thought we could have some conversation before then.  Once the games begin, it would be interesting to hear about the teams in your area, even if you do not attend the games.  Who are the teams to watch?  Any elite talent?, etc.

As he does with basketball, John Harrell has a great website that I use to keep up with what is going on.  A link is provided below.

  https://indianahsfootball.homestead.com/

 

Just a general comment. I've often wondered the impact Peyton Manning and Colts had on this state regarding football. I know there was several good teams and players before 1998 draft but he (and the Colts) changed the game. Kids started playing more and more football besides just hoops. Here we are 20+ years later and Indiana continues to produce not only tons of D1 players but high level D1 players. Especially at QB position.

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Of the 32 schools in Class 6A, only two of them are south of the Indianapolis Metro area.  And, one of them, Columbus East, is only in 6A due to getting bumped up because of success factor.  Columbus North is the only school South of Indy, enrollment wise, that qualifies for 6A.  By moving up for success, Columbus East bumped another southern school, Jeffersonville, down to 5A.  When the Elkhart schools consolidate after this school year, Zionsville gets bumped down to 5A.

http://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/quick resources/Enrollments & Classifications/2019-20, 2020-21 Football Alignment.pdf

 

 

How many 6A schools are up my way?

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15 minutes ago, rico said:

How many 6A schools are up my way?

All the 6A schools are in the Indy area or NW Indiana except for the two Columbus schools, 3 Ft. Wayne area schools (Carroll, Homestead, Snider), Penn, Warsaw, and Lafayette Jeff.

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6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

All the 6A schools are in the Indy area or NW Indiana except for the two Columbus schools, 3 Ft. Wayne area schools (Carroll, Homestead, Snider), Penn, Warsaw, and Lafayette Jeff.

Surprised Huntington North isn't on that list.

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11 hours ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

I was a junior on the team that beat Snider in 86.  Vaughn Dunbar was the best player I ever played against.

I agree that the state is undervalued when it comes to football talent.  We are seeing a lot more big schools recruit Indiana than we ever used to.

I was at that game. Remember Dunbar's 90 something yard td run. I wondered how that Snider team could be beat.  Great game, and Carmel closed it out at the end. What a first time at the state championships.

Brock Rohrabacher was their bulldozer fullback, and eventually coached our freshman basketball team at New Haven.  Small world. 

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2 hours ago, Hoosierinbham said:

I was at that game. Remember Dunbar's 90 something yard td run. I wondered how that Snider team could be beat.  Great game, and Carmel closed it out at the end. What a first time at the state championships.

Brock Rohrabacher was their bulldozer fullback, and eventually coached our freshman basketball team at New Haven.  Small world. 

Yep.  Current IU coach Mark Hagen was a senior on that Carmel team.  Great guy.  Great teammate.

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When talking about football powers in the state of Indiana, it's not always the 'big' schools.  Pioneer, a 1A school in north central Indiana (playing 2A this year due to success factor) has had back to back seasons of 15-0.  Last season, led by Mr. Football and Notre Dame recruit Jack Kiser (Mr. Football quite an achievement for a player at 1A level), Pioneer outscored their opponents by a combined 936-39, including a 60-0 victory in the state championship game.  Since the 2001 season, Pioneer has a 200-29 record.  

Living in the southern part of the state, I've always been curious as to what contributes to their dominance.  Are there any posters from that part of the state that can shed some light on how this program has had such sustained success?

http://pastfb.homestead.com/logs/Pioneer.htm#loaded

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

When talking about football powers in the state of Indiana, it's not always the 'big' schools.  Pioneer, a 1A school in north central Indiana (playing 2A this year due to success factor) has had back to back seasons of 15-0.  Last season, led by Mr. Football and Notre Dame recruit Jack Kiser (Mr. Football quite an achievement for a player at 1A level), Pioneer outscored their opponents by a combined 936-39, including a 60-0 victory in the state championship game.  Since the 2001 season, Pioneer has a 200-29 record.  

Living in the southern part of the state, I've always been curious as to what contributes to their dominance.  Are there any posters from that part of the state that can shed some light on how this program has had such sustained success?

http://pastfb.homestead.com/logs/Pioneer.htm#loaded

Pretty close to my area...Mike Johnson

https://www.pharostribune.com/sports/article_eb07d28c-9f6e-11e9-a578-3f61bdccf8b6.html

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