FKIM01 Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Just now, DocHoosier said: Nassir Little went from #4 then drafted 25th. Bol Bol went from #4 then went 44th. Archie plummeting Romeo’s stock is a lazy narrative. I agree. Romeo had accuracy issues that were made a lot worse with the wrist injury. I think he'll make a good pro once he gets fully healed and knocks the rust off. Meanwhile, Nerlens Noel is in the process of playing himself out of the league. Good development job, Cal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 I do think Cal has a point in saying you will work harder than you ever have and be pushed to hold your spot against other 5* guys just as hungry and talented wanting your spot. He also takes all these guys that are used to being the man and handling the ball and gets them to give it up. To mesh that many super egos isn’t easy...but I will say I don’t necessarily think that he can teach them skills on the court or improve their shot or basketball IQ any more than any other high quality college coach. Honestly I think Cals biggest selling point is how much he cares for his players and he has all these connections in the nba from his time there and his players there..it speaks to these OAD kids. That said I think he tells the truth about wanting these kids to be drafted more so than his biggest priority is winning..else he would build his teams differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: I agree. Romeo had accuracy issues that were made a lot worse with the wrist injury. I think he'll make a good pro once he gets fully healed and knocks the rust off. Meanwhile, Nerlens Noel is in the process of playing himself out of the league. Good development job, Cal! Let’s be honest here...lots of highly touted kids blow out in the NBA. Cal has them for basically 8 months. His job is to get them to the NBA...after Noel got there...what possibly could Cal do to continue developing them. If the kid gets lazy or entitled or fizzles that’s on them. Cal is pretty honest with them in what they need to do to be successful. I agree he is no where near one of the best coaches in college but he is the best middle man...he looks out for the kids that come in and puts them in the right connections to get them where they want to be. Horrible in game coach...probably not the best developer of talent but he does seem to honestly care a lot about the kids and that perceived pipeline to the nba right or wrong works...and now with so many players in the league he has them working for him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, dgambill said: Let’s be honest here...lots of highly touted kids blow out in the NBA. Cal has them for basically 8 months. His job is to get them to the NBA...after Noel got there...what possibly could Cal do to continue developing them. If the kid gets lazy or entitled or fizzles that’s on them. Cal is pretty honest with them in what they need to do to be successful. I agree he is no where near one of the best coaches in college but he is the best middle man...he looks out for the kids that come in and puts them in the right connections to get them where they want to be. Horrible in game coach...probably not the best developer of talent but he does seem to honestly care a lot about the kids and that perceived pipeline to the nba right or wrong works...and now with so many players in the league he has them working for him too. Without question. My question is, do Cal's flame out more than they should? I suspect they do because of Cal's philosophy of shoving them out of the nest...probably too often prematurely. Again, I'd love to see some in-depth analysis of the value of Calipari toward NBA success and riches. Where do the NBA all-stars come from? How do Cal's players hold up longevity-wise compared to other school's players drafted at the same level? There are numerous angles you could look at and grade his development success and I suspect such a study could damage his credibility. I just don't have the time or energy to analyze Cal vs. the field. A couple of pages to start with... http://rpiratings.com/NBA.php https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Kentucky/258/nba-players How many all-stars does Cal have at UK? I counted...four. Anthony Davis DeMarcus Cousins John Wall Karl-Anthony Towns Is this good considering the number of highly-rated recruits Cal gets? I don't know, but I'd love to see a thorough and impartial analysis of results vs. expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 11 hours ago, DocHoosier said: Nassir Little went from #4 then drafted 25th. Bol Bol went from #4 then went 44th. Archie plummeting Romeo’s stock is a lazy narrative. 100% Also doesn't account for the 6 non-freshman who went before him. The NBA Draft is open to more than just the most recent HS class. If Romeo is at #7 in 247 Composite, those 6 players put him at #13 in the draft by itself. That's only one spot left for naysayers to blame Archie for. I get that naysayers will say that Archie caused Romeo to get passed by non-freshman and that certainly is a debatable point, but they also need to debate his injury and fit at IU/roster flaws that Archie is only partially (IMO minimally) responsible for. Lazy narrative indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 10 hours ago, FKIM01 said: Without question. My question is, do Cal's flame out more than they should? I suspect they do because of Cal's philosophy of shoving them out of the nest...probably too often prematurely. Again, I'd love to see some in-depth analysis of the value of Calipari toward NBA success and riches. Where do the NBA all-stars come from? How do Cal's players hold up longevity-wise compared to other school's players drafted at the same level? There are numerous angles you could look at and grade his development success and I suspect such a study could damage his credibility. I just don't have the time or energy to analyze Cal vs. the field. A couple of pages to start with... http://rpiratings.com/NBA.php https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Kentucky/258/nba-players How many all-stars does Cal have at UK? I counted...four. Anthony Davis DeMarcus Cousins John Wall Karl-Anthony Towns Is this good considering the number of highly-rated recruits Cal gets? I don't know, but I'd love to see a thorough and impartial analysis of results vs. expectations. And those four guys would have been all-stars REGARDLESS of what school they attended prior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 44 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said: And those four guys would have been all-stars REGARDLESS of what school they attended prior. Are there really any players that are NBA all stars due to the development they got from their college coaches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said: Are there really any players that are NBA all stars due to the development they got from their college coaches? I don't know about all-stars but there sure are a lot of players in the NBA now who wouldn't be in the NBA to begin with if it weren't for their development in the college ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said: Are there really any players that are NBA all stars due to the development they got from their college coaches? Victor Oladipo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 4 hours ago, rico said: Victor Oladipo? Victor Oladipo was basically a bust at two locations before he arrived at Indiana. I think the work he did that offseason and the comfort in system he was afforded was what took him from nba starter to nba star. His time in Orlando was much maligned so much so they traded a top 5 pick for an aging serge Ibaka. He fit horribly in OKC and had his worst season with Russ. I agree the coaching etc at IU afforded him making it into the nba but let’s not kid ourselves. The work behind the scenes is what took this kid to the next level. That is all on Victor....to give credit to someone else I think is stretching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, dgambill said: Victor Oladipo was basically a bust at two locations before he arrived at Indiana. I think the work he did that offseason and the comfort in system he was afforded was what took him from nba starter to nba star. His time in Orlando was much maligned so much so they traded a top 5 pick for an aging serge Ibaka. He fit horribly in OKC and had his worst season with Russ. I agree the coaching etc at IU afforded him making it into the nba but let’s not kid ourselves. The work behind the scenes is what took this kid to the next level. That is all on Victor....to give credit to someone else I think is stretching it. He wouldn't have been drafted coming out of HS...Crean got him to the NBA. JMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, rico said: He wouldn't have been drafted coming out of HS...Crean got him to the NBA. JMHO. Oh no doubt. Just saying what the kid does from nba on...likely has little to do with coaching he got in college...especially at a school like UK where they were only there for one semester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 15 hours ago, FKIM01 said: Without question. My question is, do Cal's flame out more than they should? I suspect they do because of Cal's philosophy of shoving them out of the nest...probably too often prematurely. Again, I'd love to see some in-depth analysis of the value of Calipari toward NBA success and riches. Where do the NBA all-stars come from? How do Cal's players hold up longevity-wise compared to other school's players drafted at the same level? There are numerous angles you could look at and grade his development success and I suspect such a study could damage his credibility. I just don't have the time or energy to analyze Cal vs. the field. A couple of pages to start with... http://rpiratings.com/NBA.php https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Kentucky/258/nba-players How many all-stars does Cal have at UK? I counted...four. Anthony Davis DeMarcus Cousins John Wall Karl-Anthony Towns Is this good considering the number of highly-rated recruits Cal gets? I don't know, but I'd love to see a thorough and impartial analysis of results vs. expectations. I think this is what kids care about more. Becoming a star is more about what is on the inside that isn’t coachable imo. The drive. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/29558625 This article was written in 2015 so almost 5 years ago. Basically says that Cals players the past 10 years have made almost a billion dollars in the nba. That isn’t even including the past 5 years. Would they still have done that if they went to college somewhere else...very likely. But UK is a OAD factory because they don’t have upper class man to hold you back. You can come into a system built to showcase nba talents in 20-25 min spurts. You have the best facilities in the country. You have the biggest arena. You are a NC contender, you play the most prime time games against the best opponents. You work out with fellow 5* on a similar path and goal as you. You have constant nba players returning to talk and advise you. Your coach has connections with nba scouts and gms. Your coach says his priority is to get you into the nba not win ball games. Hard to argue with that. Sure Cal has failed some but also some have come unexpectedly and made it pro. Heck Shia Gilgius Alexander wasn’t a 5* and he went in the lottery and is likely to be a stud the way he is playing. It can happen both ways. It’s less about Cal making you better than Cal has a better infrastructure in place and like mind to help you achieve your goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 I despise everything Cal stands for... That being said, his track record for getting kids to the NBA is hard to match. And for the kid who has no interest in a college education, all the extras that come with playing at UK, the media attention, celebrity attention, high end living quarters, all the amenities... would appeal to most 18 year olds who believe that they will be making 7 figures within a year. I have said in the past that I am friends with a guy who works with Mr. Brooks. From conversations I have had with him, younger brother is more talented, and will be a better player than Keion. I really believe that dad pushed Keion to Cal in order to open the door for Darrion. Dad has a plan, and more power to him. Not one that coincides with what CAM is trying to build. I wouldn’t spend a dime recruiting Darrion , nor would I ever criticize the family for cashing in on the God-given skills of these two boys. We really do live in a land of opportunities. This is the Brook’s opportunity. They’d be crazy not to pursue it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 How involved will we be in Ketchup saga II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosier_exotics Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: How involved will we be in Ketchup saga II I think our involvement will be determined mostly by the success or lack of, for his brother at KY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said: I think our involvement will be determined mostly by the success or lack of, for his brother at KY So what you are saying we should expect to be highly involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierAlice Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 45 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: How involved will we be in Ketchup saga II Hopefully not at all. The way the Brooks family did IU I would hope that we would steer clear of younger brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 18 minutes ago, HoosierAlice said: Hopefully not at all. The way the Brooks family did IU I would hope that we would steer clear of younger brother. It is not the kids fault for what the parents do. If he is good enough I hope we are involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 51 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: How involved will we be in Ketchup saga II Ketchup II: Tomato Boogaloo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, HoosierAlice said: Hopefully not at all. The way the Brooks family did IU I would hope that we would steer clear of younger brother. This is where I'm at. Recruiting is a two way street of trust. How could we trust anything coming from Brooks family? Sometimes there are players (even potential elite players) you just have to pass on. I'm in the camp of spending our time and resources elsewhere on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 No thanks. If they asked to be recruited by IU and wanted to come then sure. If it was an actual recruitment which it will be then no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndySportsPartizan Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 Darrion will be playing with New Haven from what I understand. New Haven produced VJ Beachem (Notre Dame) and Steve McElvene (spelled wrong I am sure). Steve is the C who played for Archie at Dayton and died in his soph. year. VJ and Steve both would have played for Harding but the school was shut down and all the students sent to other East Allen County Schools. *Interesting side note, nothing to do with basketball... Harding was majority African American and students were then sent to primarily white, farmer schools (Woodlan, Heritage, Leo, New Haven) New Haven plays Blackhawk Christin (Caleb Furst) on Dec 6th Homestead (Luke Goode, only a Jr) on December 14th Other notes -Kentucky is by far the favorite for Darrion right now. However, how this season plays out for his brother could easily change his mind. -99.9% that Darrion will end up at a prep school ---> unless his father can turn this into him getting the NH coaching job (basically what his dad tried to do at North Side, which failed) -I will be very shocked if he stays in state for college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 47 minutes ago, IndySportsPartizan said: Darrion will be playing with New Haven from what I understand. New Haven produced VJ Beachem (Notre Dame) and Steve McElvene (spelled wrong I am sure). Steve is the C who played for Archie at Dayton and died in his soph. year. VJ and Steve both would have played for Harding but the school was shut down and all the students sent to other East Allen County Schools. *Interesting side note, nothing to do with basketball... Harding was majority African American and students were then sent to primarily white, farmer schools (Woodlan, Heritage, Leo, New Haven) New Haven plays Blackhawk Christin (Caleb Furst) on Dec 6th Homestead (Luke Goode, only a Jr) on December 14th Other notes -Kentucky is by far the favorite for Darrion right now. However, how this season plays out for his brother could easily change his mind. -99.9% that Darrion will end up at a prep school ---> unless his father can turn this into him getting the NH coaching job (basically what his dad tried to do at North Side, which failed) -I will be very shocked if he stays in state for college. Good! I don't want IU to have anything to do with that family especially the Brooks Sr. again. All he cares about is the $ that basketball can make the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 hour ago, DC2345 said: Good! I don't want IU to have anything to do with that family especially the Brooks Sr. again. All he cares about is the $ that basketball can make the family. Time to be selfish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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