jv1972iu Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 3 hours ago, IUFLA said: It's really not about politics or opinions at all...it's about using undeniable facts to substantiate a position rather than basing the transition (and there will be a transition eventually...not all the way in my opinion, but there will come a time where renewables account for a majority of our needs) on supposition or scare language... Ok...well, I still say Pluto is a dog. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 4 hours ago, KoB2011 said: Climate and weather aren’t the same thing. Climate is weather for a specific region averaged over a period of time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 Speaking of predicting the weather...my wife went to college and was friends with Ginger Zee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 5 hours ago, IUFLA said: Climate is weather for a specific region averaged over a period of time... A long period of time, where as if we are talking about the weather on a given day or forecasting weather 10 days out, that's a short period of time. Climate would be like saying IU is one of the the best 5 or so programs in the history of basketball. Weather would be like saying they're one of the worst because of how the past couple seasons has gone. People that think they can debunk climate change by talking about the weather would be like someone who said Duke is a crappy program (climate) because they had a bad year last year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 4 hours ago, KoB2011 said: A long period of time, where as if we are talking about the weather on a given day or forecasting weather 10 days out, that's a short period of time. And by that we have been keeping track of the weather for how long? And by keeping track I am talking documented weather conditions. I would say that we have had "proof" of the weather in this country for perhaps 150 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, KoB2011 said: People that think they can debunk climate change by talking about the weather would be like someone who said Duke is a crappy program (climate) because they had a bad year Where did anyone try to "debunk" climate change? @FKIM01 said "I got news for you, peeps...the climate has been changing since the dawn of time." And I agreed with him. That certainly doesn't sound like he's trying to " debunk" anything. My point on weather was, if you use today as a baseline for predicting weather, you can be pretty accurate. The farther you get away from that baseline into the future, the less accurate your going to be predicting the weather and subsequently the overall climate. That's a fact. I said my 2 issues with the whole thing are people who have no background in science saying if we don't address climate change, the world will end in 12 year. I might expect something like that from a cult leader or a carnival barker, but not someone who is supposed to be a leader in this country. Using scare language like that is irresponsible and dangerous. My other point was the climate accord we reentered. China is the world's leading producer of CO2 gas. Yet we're supposed to comply with with requirements and suffer burdensome regulations years before they do. It puts the US at a disadvantage both economically and militarily. And I think it's a dangerous time to do that. Giving China a 10 year head start on compliance is simply stupid. Of course, by the time that 10 year period is over Mother Earth only has 2 years to go anyway... Edited September 2, 2021 by IUFLA 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted September 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 Back to weather events, NYC got some rain. Stay dry @Lostin76! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 57 degrees and sunny here in The Lake City... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 Ida rainfall dumped over 7 inches on NYC. Subways are still closed down until mid-day today. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/nyregion/nyc-subway-transit-updates.html The video in this link is bonkers. I’ve seen rain and flooding in the subway before, but not like this. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, Reacher said: Back to weather events, NYC got some rain. Stay dry @Lostin76! Have some friends headed that way for anniversary weekend. So far they are still going but some of the videos are unreal. Manhattan doesn't seem to be as bad as some of the other areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 I am of the firm belief that the weather is cyclical. Now determining how these cycles work is anybody's guess as of now that is why I alluded to documentation above. History of weather events in this country, or the world for that matter, is relatively "young." How do we know that the same thing happening with the climate now didn't happen 500 years ago? 1000 year ago? Etc. It does make for great discussion and tbh I am fascinated by it. I can tell you this first hand as an avid icefisherman. It was only 8 years ago that I was drilling through the most ice I had ever seen around here. Lake Wawasee was a parking lot with trucks parked on it a day I fished. I had to cut through 36"s to get a hook in the water. At the time I said "global warming my ass." Remember the global warming rhetoric from just a few short years ago? Now it has morphed into climate change. I got a few more things I could add dealing with this "crisis" but it will probably get us(me) onto a different tangent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) To think humans have had a profound affect on climate in roughly 250 years of industry on a planet that is probably 6 billion years old is ridiculous and a pompous. Also, don't raise my energy costs and steal my money while China and India can freely pollute the environment. I don't work to subsidize foreign countries greenhouse emissions. Edited September 2, 2021 by mrflynn03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 1 hour ago, rico said: 57 degrees and sunny here in The Lake City... I'd kill for 57 degrees...2 months and maybe I'll see it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: I'd kill for 57 degrees...2 months and maybe I'll see it... In 2 months I hope to be walking on the ice.....lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence And Pluto is a dog. 😊 Edited September 2, 2021 by jv1972iu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 13 minutes ago, jv1972iu said: https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence Lost me after "for millinnia"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 16 minutes ago, rico said: Lost me after "for millinnia"... Ok. 😊 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 Take a minute to read this... Applies not only common sense but scientific theory to our debate. Look up the guy that wrote that...definitely not a lightweight... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 September is here and someone flipped on the "fall" switch in Southern Indiana this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 30 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: September is here and someone flipped on the "fall" switch in Southern Indiana this morning. As it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted September 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 1 hour ago, jv1972iu said: https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence And Pluto is a dog. 😊 If "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal", how do you explain this- https://strangesounds.org/2021/08/next-20-30-years-will-be-cold-and-thats-worst-than-global-warming-climate-scientist-warns.html ? If global warming supports more food creation, is it even a bad thing? I could go on forever here. Having been to Alaska and Glacier National Park, I have an interest in the glaciers and seeing more of them. My next big trip is hopefully to Iceland in a few years. Lets remember https://weather.com/science/environment/video/glacier-national-park-swaps-out-signs-predicting-no-glaciers-by-2020. Yes, some glaciers are retreating, but others are growing. Retreating glaciers are uncovering ancient forests so we know this isn't a new phenomenon. Polar bears are thriving, not dying, etc. Both sides have ample "evidence" to support their conclusions as one can twist the stats to support any narrative, or just change the data, to fit that narrative. This trip down memory lane shows a bunch of examples of failed past projections which is why many are doubtful of the latest dire projection of the day- https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions/ As much as I would love to debate this topic, lets save the climate debate for another thread, or private messages, and keep this one focused on the (micro climate) weather events. Thanks! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Reacher said: If "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal", how do you explain this- https://strangesounds.org/2021/08/next-20-30-years-will-be-cold-and-thats-worst-than-global-warming-climate-scientist-warns.html ? If global warming supports more food creation, is it even a bad thing? I could go on forever here. Having been to Alaska and Glacier National Park, I have an interest in the glaciers and seeing more of them. My next big trip is hopefully to Iceland in a few years. Lets remember https://weather.com/science/environment/video/glacier-national-park-swaps-out-signs-predicting-no-glaciers-by-2020. Yes, some glaciers are retreating, but others are growing. Retreating glaciers are uncovering ancient forests so we know this isn't a new phenomenon. Polar bears are thriving, not dying, etc. Both sides have ample "evidence" to support their conclusions as one can twist the stats to support any narrative, or just change the data, to fit that narrative. This trip down memory lane shows a bunch of examples of failed past projections which is why many are doubtful of the latest dire projection of the day- https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions/ As much as I would love to debate this topic, lets save the climate debate for another thread, or private messages, and keep this one focused on the (micro climate) weather events. Thanks! Love the post. As far as the last paragraph...meh, this is the weather thread. Jmo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Reacher said: If "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal", how do you explain this- https://strangesounds.org/2021/08/next-20-30-years-will-be-cold-and-thats-worst-than-global-warming-climate-scientist-warns.html ? If global warming supports more food creation, is it even a bad thing? I could go on forever here. Having been to Alaska and Glacier National Park, I have an interest in the glaciers and seeing more of them. My next big trip is hopefully to Iceland in a few years. Lets remember https://weather.com/science/environment/video/glacier-national-park-swaps-out-signs-predicting-no-glaciers-by-2020. Yes, some glaciers are retreating, but others are growing. Retreating glaciers are uncovering ancient forests so we know this isn't a new phenomenon. Polar bears are thriving, not dying, etc. Both sides have ample "evidence" to support their conclusions as one can twist the stats to support any narrative, or just change the data, to fit that narrative. This trip down memory lane shows a bunch of examples of failed past projections which is why many are doubtful of the latest dire projection of the day- https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions/ As much as I would love to debate this topic, lets save the climate debate for another thread, or private messages, and keep this one focused on the (micro climate) weather events. Thanks! Not interested in debating. I just wanted to share this information. You do that from time to time regarding the coronavirus...right? 😊 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 Hey, I'm good with a friendly climate debate in a weather thread. Like a lot of subjects today, it's challenging keeping politics out of it because so many subjects have been weaponized to push agendas. My take is simple and @Reacher nailed it nicely...of course the climate is changing and regardless of what we think or do, it will continue to change. We can influence things like climate and the economy, but it's arrogant and silly to think we can control them. The future of climate change is a long way from settled science. We just need to stop pretending we have all the answers, because the link in Reacher's reply makes it abundantly clear that the smartest scientists in the world are routinely incorrect. The mark of a good scientist is continuing to seek the right answer, rather than pretending he/she knows what is to come. I don't pretend to have all the answers (and I won't put little laughing emogis on replies I disagree with), but a mature and polite debate is fine by me. The last person I'll believe on matters of science is a politician. 😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 8 hours ago, IUFLA said: Take a minute to read this... Applies not only common sense but scientific theory to our debate. Look up the guy that wrote that...definitely not a lightweight... I'm not exactly looking to argue, but he didn't refute anything. He pretty much just stated he's a skeptic but should be treated differently than other "deniers" (his words, not mine) but gave no evidence to refute the overwhelmingly accepted position of climatologists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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