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tdhoosier

California's 'Fair Pay to Play Act'

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https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/27593438/calif-senate-ok-athlete-bill-ncaa-calls-harmful

Surprised this hasn't been posted. The governor has 30 days to sign this into law. I know we hash out this subject a lot, but if it is signed into law this has potential to change a lot of things. NCAA is already talking about potentially banning California school from the organization, which is not believed to be held up in court. California could be the first domino to fall. 

This is completely my opinion, but I'm not sure that I buy it's make the playing field more unlevel than it already is. I think the market would eventually stabilize itself when it comes to endorsement dollars being spent. AND the playing field is already not level. How many burger boys are going to mid-majors? Heck, how many of the top 150 are going to mid-majors? The power conferences already have their own networks which gives them a huge advantage over smaller conferences. The schools that have the biggest followings already receive the biggest endorsement contracts and already have the best facilities, recruiting budgets and coaching budgets.

Will this really tip the scales that much further? 

Could it possibly even things out and disperse the top 10 players to more colleges instead of just 2 (Duke and Kentucky)? 

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22 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/27593438/calif-senate-ok-athlete-bill-ncaa-calls-harmful

Surprised this hasn't been posted. The governor has 30 days to sign this into law. I know we hash out this subject a lot, but if it is signed into law this has potential to change a lot of things. NCAA is already talking about potentially banning California school from the organization, which is not believed to be held up in court. California could be the first domino to fall. 

This is completely my opinion, but I'm not sure that I buy it's make the playing field more unlevel than it already is. I think the market would eventually stabilize itself when it comes to endorsement dollars being spent. AND the playing field is already not level. How many burger boys are going to mid-majors? Heck, how many of the top 150 are going to mid-majors? The power conferences already have their own networks which gives them a huge advantage over smaller conferences. The schools that have the biggest followings already receive the biggest endorsement contracts and already have the best facilities, recruiting budgets and coaching budgets.

Will this really tip the scales that much further? 

Could it possibly even things out and disperse the top 10 players to more colleges instead of just 2 (Duke and Kentucky)? 

I posted something in around the NCAA about this.  it also said that any college that does this could hurt their chances to play in NCAA sanction events like the tournament.

Edited by IU Scott

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So the law wouldn’t start until 2022-2023 if signed.  It’s really perfect because this gives enough time for the NCAA to stop being so slow and do something.  Also it allows other states to start creating the same bill and apply more pressure on the NCAA.   The NCAA should be scared as hell that as more states push a law their inaction would create a standoff that they likely wouldn’t win.

As to the overall theme of the bill I am 100% ok with this.  IMO a college athlete should get paid for his likeness and endorsement, or get paid for autograph sessions he does.  Additionally this would help athletes that don’t get the hype of the major sports.  A swimmer at a university should be able to charge to give swim lessons or a golfer to hold a camp.  If someone wants to pay you for a skill you can offer they should be allowed to do so.  Also make it clear that endorsements can’t be counter to the institution they play for.  So Nike at an Adidas school.  Careers can end in heartbeat, let any kid that can profit make that 💰

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In before the IU Scott rebuttal.:coffee:

...but just barely. 😂

(Scott, we love you man...don't ever stop being you...)

Edited by FKIM01

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I was wondering what you guys would think if they made whole sale changes to college sports.  I have seen some think those athletes should just be at the school for their sports and not really have to take regular classes.  If they ever did this and made them employees of the school and pay them would you still feel the same about college sports.  Would you still feel a connection to IU basketball if this happens compared to what you feel now or have in the past.  Would this lead you to not be fans of college sports any longer.

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6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I was wondering what you guys would think if they made whole sale changes to college sports.  I have seen some think those athletes should just be at the school for their sports and not really have to take regular classes.  If they ever did this and made them employees of the school and pay them would you still feel the same about college sports.  Would you still feel a connection to IU basketball if this happens compared to what you feel now or have in the past.  Would this lead you to not be fans of college sports any longer.

That's actually a pretty interesting question.

I'm thinking initial reaction would be a tad negative but then most fans would adjust to the new reality and embrace it, much as they embrace the Pacers and the Colts.  I'd just about guarantee the schools would not want this as they enjoy the profit margins generated by their money sports and would fight tooth & nail not to lose that.

What it would sadly do is widen the gap between the haves and have nots.  I'd like to at least see schools have the option to compete in the pay league or the scholarship league.

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4 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

That's actually a pretty interesting question.

I'm thinking initial reaction would be a tad negative but then most fans would adjust to the new reality and embrace it, much as they embrace the Pacers and the Colts.  I'd just about guarantee the schools would not want this as they enjoy the profit margins generated by their money sports and would fight tooth & nail not to lose that.

What it would sadly do is widen the gap between the haves and have nots.  I'd like to at least see schools have the option to compete in the pay league or the scholarship league.

I have always thought differently about my college sports teams compared to my pro sports team.  For some reason I feel a closer relationship with my college teams compared to the pro teams and I think one of the reasons is that they were not being paid or are professional athletes.

Also did I surprise you that I did not come out and give my opinion on this topic.

Edited by IU Scott

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Not attending classes has nothing to do with the law and there’s no indication that this would be a result of it. If an athlete goes to college then they must attend classes. It’s a requirement to be a part of that institution. The argument is that they should be able to make money off of their likeness while being a student athlete. 

A student can do this. A student athlete can not. 

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I see no problem allowing players to make money off of their likeness. If anything it would be an incentive to work harder to get better and more recognizable.  

But I dont think they should be paid directly.  I think it would cause more problems that would have to be dealt with. It's not just basketball players that want to be paid.  Where would the money come from? Higher tuition for non-athlete, non-scholarship students to pay for student athletes on scholarship? I guess you could not offer scholarships if they were paid. And to answer iuscott's question,  it would most likely change how I view college sports.  

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37 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Not attending classes has nothing to do with the law and there’s no indication that this would be a result of it. If an athlete goes to college then they must attend classes. It’s a requirement to be a part of that institution. The argument is that they should be able to make money off of their likeness while being a student athlete. 

A student can do this. A student athlete can not. 

I have heard people discuss that as an alternative and I realize that scenario was not in this law.

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20 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I see no problem allowing players to make money off of their likeness. If anything it would be an incentive to work harder to get better and more recognizable.  

But I dont think they should be paid directly.  I think it would cause more problems that would have to be dealt with. It's not just basketball players that want to be paid.  Where would the money come from? Higher tuition for non-athlete, non-scholarship students to pay for student athletes on scholarship? I guess you could not offer scholarships if they were paid. And to answer iuscott's question,  it would most likely change how I view college sports.  

Yea I don't see a fair option if players are paid by their individual schools.  How can a small program afford to with their budgets?  You're talking about every athlete from every sport getting paid.  We would see non Power 5 schools just folding shop on sports altogether.  The payments will have to come directly from the NCAA.  

The NCAA better come up with a plan quick.  I could easily see the Power 5 break away and do their own thing to prevent sharing their fortunes.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

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31 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I see no problem allowing players to make money off of their likeness. If anything it would be an incentive to work harder to get better and more recognizable.  

But I dont think they should be paid directly.  I think it would cause more problems that would have to be dealt with. It's not just basketball players that want to be paid.  Where would the money come from? Higher tuition for non-athlete, non-scholarship students to pay for student athletes on scholarship? I guess you could not offer scholarships if they were paid. And to answer iuscott's question,  it would most likely change how I view college sports.  

The law doesn't' propose that they'd be paid directly from a college - just off their likeness. 

Like what IUthruandthru said, they could get paid for autograph sessions, sports camps, endorsements from car dealerships, etc. If a kid chose to go to Northern Iowa he could get $2,500 to sponsor a corn maze. Or if a kid good looking kid with nice teeth chose Eastern Kentucky we could endorse a dentist. The possibilities are endless!

 

 

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8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

The law doesn't' propose that they'd be paid directly from a college - just off their likeness. 

Like what IUthruandthru said, they could get paid for autograph sessions, sports camps, endorsements from car dealerships, etc. If a kid chose to go to Northern Iowa he could get $2,500 to sponsor a corn maze. Or if a kid good looking kid with nice teeth chose Eastern Kentucky we could endorse a dentist. The possibilities are endless!

 

 

Right and that just puts everything out in the open.  All under the table stuff we have now with boosters and sponsors will be transparent.   Let the bidding wars begin.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

 

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47 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

The law doesn't' propose that they'd be paid directly from a college - just off their likeness. 

Like what IUthruandthru said, they could get paid for autograph sessions, sports camps, endorsements from car dealerships, etc. If a kid chose to go to Northern Iowa he could get $2,500 to sponsor a corn maze. Or if a kid good looking kid with nice teeth chose Eastern Kentucky we could endorse a dentist. The possibilities are endless!

 

 

The schools with the largest, wealthiest fanbases could make some real hay there.  I'm sure there are a lot of Sam Gilberts around LA looking forward to that rule going into effect.

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I'm still trying to come to grips with this "proposal". Since I'm an old fart, it takes me a little longer to think things thru. But I can honestly say it would change my perception of college sports.

And I don't believe for a minute that the compensation will only apply to endorsements and the like. It will be pay to play. It will be called something different of course, but it's still pay to play. (IMO, which may be a minority view)

What we haven't discussed yet, is the unintended consequences. The derivatives of dominoes falling 2-3 iterations down the road. For example, if a player is getting paid to play, and doesn't perform, can he be fired? When?  Is the university still on the hook for a 4 year scholarship? Will the "team concept" go out the window in order to satisfy the high paid stars of the squad?

Many seem to minimize or outright dismiss, the value of a scholarship as "compensation" for playing for the university. It's a potential stepping stone to the next level of the sport. And a degree (if the athlete chooses to  work for it) is an opportunity to jump start a career with no debt. IMO these are not inconsequential things. I remember how hard I had to work to get my degree and put myself thru school financially.

Maybe I think that in today's world, many think college should be easy, especially for athletes, that provide the "entertainment" that we all enjoy, and bring in significant revenue for the universities. But I also remember when I worked in several different corporations that my effort and expertise helped make them millions of dollars in sales and profits each year, while my "compensation" was far less than the cost of tuition, room and board for 4 years.

And what about the NBA rule change that is supposedly coming, that you don't have to attend college at all before entering the pros. If it flies in the NBA, the NFL, NHL and others won't be far behind. I'm not even sure the NHL requires college now....just trying to illustrate a point. Additional compensation beyond a full ride might not be warranted if all the NBA players jump to the pros right out of high school.

As you can tell by the length of this post, I don't have any answers, just a lot of questions. But it does make for some interesting conversation.

Go Hoosiers!

 

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1 hour ago, Indy1987 said:

Yea I don't see a fair option if players are paid by their individual schools.  How can a small program afford to with their budgets?  You're talking about every athlete from every sport getting paid.  We would see non Power 5 schools just folding shop on sports altogether.  The payments will have to come directly from the NCAA.  

The NCAA better come up with a plan quick.  I could easily see the Power 5 break away and do their own thing to prevent sharing their fortunes.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

If that happens then it would totally ruin the NCAA tournament,  One it would take out the small schools getting a chance to compete with the power schools.  Secondly those schools who would break away would not be able to play in the sanction NCAA tournament.  

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43 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

Right and that just puts everything out in the open.  All under the table stuff we have now with boosters and sponsors will be transparent.   Let the bidding wars begin.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

 

There would still be cheating if they change this because the shoe companies with still try to buy players.  I could see giving the kids a little more of a stipend but I still don't like the idea of these kids getting endorsements because there would still be cheating and I don't want to see players going to the highest bidder.  Like I have said many times if these kids want to be professional then go and play over seas or the G-league.  I don't want to change all the rules of college sports for less than 1% of the players who would be effected.

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3 hours ago, iuthruandthru said:

So the law wouldn’t start until 2022-2023 if signed.  It’s really perfect because this gives enough time for the NCAA to stop being so slow and do something.  Also it allows other states to start creating the same bill and apply more pressure on the NCAA.   The NCAA should be scared as hell that as more states push a law their inaction would create a standoff that they likely wouldn’t win.

As to the overall theme of the bill I am 100% ok with this.  IMO a college athlete should get paid for his likeness and endorsement, or get paid for autograph sessions he does.  Additionally this would help athletes that don’t get the hype of the major sports.  A swimmer at a university should be able to charge to give swim lessons or a golfer to hold a camp.  If someone wants to pay you for a skill you can offer they should be allowed to do so.  Also make it clear that endorsements can’t be counter to the institution they play for.  So Nike at an Adidas school.  Careers can end in heartbeat, let any kid that can profit make that 💰

Fans of college sports should also be scared. Because laws like this will change college sports entirely. The current system works for most athletes except for maybe the top 1% in 2 revenue sports.  Let those NBA/NFL prospects go pro and keep college sports intact.  Fans root for the schools and not the players. There are plenty of athletes out there willing to play for the scholarship, perks and exposure.   Let the guys that are in the game only for the money go pro.  A few will make big bucks in the NBA or in Europe and rest will make either nothing or less than the value of their scholarship. 

Edited by OGIUAndy
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24 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

If that happens then it would totally ruin the NCAA tournament,  One it would take out the small schools getting a chance to compete with the power schools.  Secondly those schools who would break away would not be able to play in the sanction NCAA tournament.  

If the power 5 schools broke away I'd envision them having their own championship tournaments.  And the NCAA would pretty much fold without those conferences so their wouldn't even be an NCAA tournament.  Small conferences would have to form their own tournaments.  

And no I'm not hoping for that to happen.  Just with the continued talk of paying athletes that could be where we end up one day.

Go Hoosiers!!!

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To me what I don't understand is why do we need to change the whole landscape of college sports and more importantly to me college basketball for less than one percent of guys playing college basketball.  There are around 5,000 players playing college basketball at the D1 level and we want to change everything for around 30 kids a year.  Also those kids are staying a year in college and then leave so why bow down to these kids.  I just don't see that there will be a whole lot of kids around the country who will be able to sell their likeness or get money for their autographs.

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29 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

There would still be cheating if they change this because the shoe companies with still try to buy players.  I could see giving the kids a little more of a stipend but I still don't like the idea of these kids getting endorsements because there would still be cheating and I don't want to see players going to the highest bidder.  Like I have said many times if these kids want to be professional then go and play over seas or the G-league.  I don't want to change all the rules of college sports for less than 1% of the players who would be effected.

If players are allowed to be paid by whatever sponsor then the cheating that we have today will all be legal.  Shoe companies will pay kids and it's all going to be allowed.  The rich car dealer booster can pay A recruit a mil to do TV ads.  You can go on and on like tdhoosier mentioned.  Any athlete with any bit of Pro promise(basketball and football mainly) will get paid. 

I don't like it either but that's what is going to happen eventually if this passes.

Go Hoosiers!!!

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me what I don't understand is why do we need to change the whole landscape of college sports and more importantly to me college basketball for less than one percent of guys playing college basketball.  There are around 5,000 players playing college basketball at the D1 level and we want to change everything for around 30 kids a year.  Also those kids are staying a year in college and then leave so why bow down to these kids.  I just don't see that there will be a whole lot of kids around the country who will be able to sell their likeness or get money for their autographs.

Knock, knock Scott...the schools make millions off said kids.

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1 minute ago, Indy1987 said:

If players are allowed to be paid by whatever sponsor then the cheating that we have today will all be legal.  Shoe companies will pay kids and it's all going to be allowed.  The rich car dealer booster can pay A recruit a mil to do TV ads.  You can go on and on like tdhoosier mentioned.  Any athlete with any bit of Pro promise(basketball and football mainly) will get paid. 

I don't like it either but that's what is going to happen eventually if this passes.

Go Hoosiers!!!

And I am totally against all of that and if it happens then I might stop watching college sports.  If I want to watch the NBA I would but I really don't like it that well.

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

To me what I don't understand is why do we need to change the whole landscape of college sports and more importantly to me college basketball for less than one percent of guys playing college basketball.  There are around 5,000 players playing college basketball at the D1 level and we want to change everything for around 30 kids a year.  Also those kids are staying a year in college and then leave so why bow down to these kids.  I just don't see that there will be a whole lot of kids around the country who will be able to sell their likeness or get money for their autographs.

You gotta throw in other sports as well.  Football namely but their are other sports with athletes that are gonna want money if endorsements become legal for them.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

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