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California's 'Fair Pay to Play Act'


tdhoosier

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1 minute ago, JugRox said:

OSU's athletic budget was $109 million last year....and now think about the boosters supporting that.

You really think $1 million each for 3 or 4 5 star basketball recruits is out of OSU's reach? Really?

It's not out of reach - I just don't think it will happen. And if it does, they will be competing against every other high profile university for the same recruits. A market will form - the hierarchy will not change. The 'haves' are already the 'haves' and they already get the best players because they have the best coaches, facilities, resources, budgets, etc. My point is that the colleges with a well organized booster base ALREADY have an unfair advantage. 

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8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

It's not out of reach - I just don't think it will happen. And if it does, they will be competing against every other high profile university for the same recruits. A market will form - the hierarchy will not change. The 'haves' are already the 'haves' and they already get the best players because they have the best coaches, facilities, resources, budgets, etc. My point is that the colleges with a well organized booster base ALREADY have an unfair advantage. 

Not exactly.....because the full power of the booster base cannot be unleashed right now. Boosters cannot go directly to recruits....they must go through the schools. This rule passes, the full power of these football boosters will be felt.

IU basketball won't be left totally in the dust....but they will be part of the 'have nots' rather than the 'haves'.

If you think nothing will change if boosters are allowed to go directly to recruits....well, we disagree. 

yes, a market will form. A market that will require football money to be a serious player. Schools like Iowa, Penn State, and Wisconsin will simply have more money than IU. 

Will an in state recruit go to IU for $200k less than what Penn State is offering? 

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44 minutes ago, JugRox said:

Not exactly.....because the full power of the booster base cannot be unleashed right now. Boosters cannot go directly to recruits....they must go through the schools. This rule passes, the full power of these football boosters will be felt.

IU basketball won't be left totally in the dust....but they will be part of the 'have nots' rather than the 'haves'.

If you think nothing will change if boosters are allowed to go directly to recruits....well, we disagree. 

yes, a market will form. A market that will require football money to be a serious player. Schools like Iowa, Penn State, and Wisconsin will simply have more money than IU. 

 

We will disagree then. It's all speculation at this point anyway. 

IU Basketball will most definitely be one of the 'haves' we have one of the biggest fan bases. We don't get nationally televised games on CBS for nothing. The football program though? Not so much. 

Again the schools will not be paying money for the recruits. Bigger revenue streams doesn't necessarily equate to more boosters - much of that money is earned from tv rights, merchandise, ticket sales etc. IU football doesn't have as much money as OSU because they suck and nobody supports them. They don't have 100k sized stadiums that they sell out every week and sell crap loads of football jerseys. That money OSU earns can't go to pay recruits. 

Indiana has just as big as an alumni base as OSU, the difference? Our boosters care about basketball and OSU's boosters care about football. OSU's football players will be the ones racking up their endorsement deals. The basketball recruits may get some of that booster money (from the minority of boosters who actually care about basketball), but not nearly as much as the football program.  

 

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This is such a difficult topic that has me really conflicted. 

I absolutely understand that student-athletes are making millions, even billions for the NCAA, schools, ESPN, FOX, Nike, Adidas, etc, etc. I also believe people should be able to monetize value that they've built, and it's kind of against what our country was built on to not allow people to do that. Allowing college athletes to monetize their likeness, etc. is probably the right thing to do, and when making tough decisions usually an easy solution is to think about what the right thing to do is, and then do that. 

With all that said, I'm also conflicted because I think this could potentially ruin college sports as we know them, and I like college sports. I don't have a ton of interest in watching millionaires and the impact that will have the game in my college sports. I realize that's my issue/problem and other people shouldn't have to give up money they've earned just because I want my college sports to stay the way they are, but still I don't really like it.  

What's going to happen when a kid has practice for IU but his agent has him scheduled for an autograph session where he's getting paid $50,000? What if Nike wants him at a commercial shoot as part of his $200,000 shoe deal, but coach wants him at a team event? It's not like the NBA where the player has a contract with the team and a player's union, etc. 

I didn't get into the recruiting aspect. Is a coaches job now to line up as many endorsements as possible to lure a kid in? Can a booster now offer a crazy amount to show up to 1 autograph session, sort of like the old days when boosters would offer a kid $20K to work at his store, but only make work an hour a week or something?

I'm kind of rambling, but I can tell you that if I was coaching at one of these schools I'd be calling every NBA contact I had to get me a job. 

Again, I realize this is probably going to happen, and that it really probably should. But, I still don't really like it. 

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4 hours ago, IU Scott said:

But what if UK has more big money donors and can pay Landers $500,000.  When it comes to college sports this is not what I want and if it comes to this I will have to seriously think about not watching it any longer.

You realize this is how it’s done already right? And you still watch.  Kids are getting paid by boosters and it is a highest bidder situation in some cases. By changing the law, it actually gives schools like IU a fighting chance to land some talented players. You think it’s a coincidence the best players all go to the same handful of schools regardless of playing time?

Duke has a player a few years ago whose parents filed for bankruptcy and then the next year are buying a $600,000 house in Durham. All legally funneled through AAU. Romeo’s dad got paid legally through AAU.  Rashan Gary (Green Bay Packers) has said he was offered $300,000 by a school recruiting him (presumed to be Clemson). You think it’s a coincidence that Clemson was a good program and now is the top program in the nation?

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13 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This is such a difficult topic that has me really conflicted. 

I absolutely understand that student-athletes are making millions, even billions for the NCAA, schools, ESPN, FOX, Nike, Adidas, etc, etc. I also believe people should be able to monetize value that they've built, and it's kind of against what our country was built on to not allow people to do that. Allowing college athletes to monetize their likeness, etc. is probably the right thing to do, and when making tough decisions usually an easy solution is to think about what the right thing to do is, and then do that. 

With all that said, I'm also conflicted because I think this could potentially ruin college sports as we know them, and I like college sports. I don't have a ton of interest in watching millionaires and the impact that will have the game in my college sports. I realize that's my issue/problem and other people shouldn't have to give up money they've earned just because I want my college sports to stay the way they are, but still I don't really like it.  

What's going to happen when a kid has practice for IU but his agent has him scheduled for an autograph session where he's getting paid $50,000? What if Nike wants him at a commercial shoot as part of his $200,000 shoe deal, but coach wants him at a team event? It's not like the NBA where the player has a contract with the team and a player's union, etc. 

I didn't get into the recruiting aspect. Is a coaches job now to line up as many endorsements as possible to lure a kid in? Can a booster now offer a crazy amount to show up to 1 autograph session, sort of like the old days when boosters would offer a kid $20K to work at his store, but only make work an hour a week or something?

I'm kind of rambling, but I can tell you that if I was coaching at one of these schools I'd be calling every NBA contact I had to get me a job. 

Again, I realize this is probably going to happen, and that it really probably should. But, I still don't really like it. 

NLOI is a contract and it might need to be reworded to make sure that the athlete does make all team events to prevent your worries about conflicting events. 

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2 minutes ago, Bob said:

How do you keep it fair for all schools! Who monitors all this. Can’t be free market or the wealthiest schools get all the best recruits! All this money needs to make schoolcheaper for all 

This has nothing to do with school. The schools keep their profits. They aren’t the ones paying the student athletes. Sports has nothing to do with tuition costs. 

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2 hours ago, coachv said:

was she making endorsement money while at iu, i wonder? if so, did it have to be held in some kind of trust? if not, how was she able to maintain amateur status to swim in the ncaa? anyone?

College Olympic athletes have a somewhat different set of rules with the NCAA I believe.  They are allowed to get monthly stipends by the USOC to help with training and travel expenses.  They are also paid for each medal won at the Olympics.  I'm pretty sure even World Championship money as well is theirs to keep without losing NCAA status.  

In Lily's case I'm sure as soon as her last NCAA race was completed in March she had deals ready to go.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

 

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4 hours ago, coachv said:

was she making endorsement money while at iu, i wonder? if so, did it have to be held in some kind of trust? if not, how was she able to maintain amateur status to swim in the ncaa? anyone?

Here's an article on Lily that talks a bit about her earnings and what she gave up by staying in school.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2019/03/19/lilly-king-fulfills-promise-iu-swimming-begin-pro-career-soon/3201182002/

Go Hoosiers!!!

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2 hours ago, Feathery said:

NLOI is a contract and it might need to be reworded to make sure that the athlete does make all team events to prevent your worries about conflicting events. 

Yes it would have to be reworked, I’d imagine. But that’s one thing in a laundry list. Again, I’m not arguing against this, I realize it’s inevitable and probably the right thing to happen, but I’m also just not a huge fan of what the repercussions are most likely going to be. It’s going to change college sports as we know them. 

I also realize college sports has a ton of issues and is far from perfect, but I think in 10-20 years it may be unrecognizable as we head down this path. 

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8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yes it would have to be reworked, I’d imagine. But that’s one thing in a laundry list. Again, I’m not arguing against this, I realize it’s inevitable and probably the right thing to happen, but I’m also just not a huge fan of what the repercussions are most likely going to be. It’s going to change college sports as we know them. 

I also realize college sports has a ton of issues and is far from perfect, but I think in 10-20 years it may be unrecognizable as we head down this path. 

If it becomes unrecognizable, I hope it is still something I enjoy. College basketball is my number one sport so I hope as it evolves that I can find a way to still enjoy it. I will sure try. My Saturdays in the fall might be a lot more free though. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Parakeet Jones said:

If it becomes unrecognizable, I hope it is still something I enjoy. College basketball is my number one sport so I hope as it evolves that I can find a way to still enjoy it. I will sure try. My Saturdays in the fall might be a lot more free though. 

 

Agree. Who knows, maybe this makes it better. I not opposed to the idea that this could improve the game, but it’s a risky, slippery slope as well. 

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9 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I thought that I read or heard somewhere that in order for a sport to be included in this, they had to produce at least $10 million a year in television revenue. That would pretty much count out the Olympic sports

i did not hear that. the more you think about it the more there is to unravel. if what you heard is correct then a basketball player can make endorsement money but lilly king and her never ending string of medals and world records could not endorse swim goggles? she is the greatest female breast stroker in history so that would not seem fair.

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6 hours ago, Indy1987 said:

College Olympic athletes have a somewhat different set of rules with the NCAA I believe.  They are allowed to get monthly stipends by the USOC to help with training and travel expenses.  They are also paid for each medal won at the Olympics.  I'm pretty sure even World Championship money as well is theirs to keep without losing NCAA status.  

In Lily's case I'm sure as soon as her last NCAA race was completed in March she had deals ready to go.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

 

the bulk of her fortune will come via endorsements, and by no small amount. if forced to wait until she finishes her collegiate career, she stands to forego millions in income. athletes have quit their college careers because of this reason. good story to suss out tdh if you are listening. how did king manage the transition to professional? 

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5 hours ago, Indy1987 said:

Here's an article on Lily that talks a bit about her earnings and what she gave up by staying in school.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2019/03/19/lilly-king-fulfills-promise-iu-swimming-begin-pro-career-soon/3201182002/

Go Hoosiers!!!

thanks for the link. i have followed her career but missed that. so much admiration for her. imagine if a couple recent basketball players felt that way. we would probably have a 6th banner hanging right now

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13 hours ago, Parakeet Jones said:

If it becomes unrecognizable, I hope it is still something I enjoy. College basketball is my number one sport so I hope as it evolves that I can find a way to still enjoy it. I will sure try. My Saturdays in the fall might be a lot more free though. 

 

I love sports but college basketball is my passion and I don't want to see the game changed to much.  If it does something to effect the tournament then that is when I will get very upset.

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8 hours ago, coachv said:

the bulk of her fortune will come via endorsements, and by no small amount. if forced to wait until she finishes her collegiate career, she stands to forego millions in income. athletes have quit their college careers because of this reason. good story to suss out tdh if you are listening. how did king manage the transition to professional? 

2019BreaststrokeCamp.jpg

Speaking of swimming......just an example of how this rule wouldn't only benefit basketball and football players. This one day camp is only one day and $318 per kid. Because you don't some of these swimmers doesn't mean that many age group swimmers in the state of Indiana don't know who they are. Only 5 spots are left. And the one common thing amongst the swimmers hosting this camp? They are all now graduated and can earn money for their likeness. I'm sure it'd be nice for them to have been able to do this while they were in school. 

While Cody Miller is a little older he has a very popular vlog on YouTube with 110k subscribers, from which he profits. Again, he wouldn't be able to do this in college. 

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16 hours ago, BGleas said:

This is such a difficult topic that has me really conflicted. 

I absolutely understand that student-athletes are making millions, even billions for the NCAA, schools, ESPN, FOX, Nike, Adidas, etc, etc. I also believe people should be able to monetize value that they've built, and it's kind of against what our country was built on to not allow people to do that. Allowing college athletes to monetize their likeness, etc. is probably the right thing to do, and when making tough decisions usually an easy solution is to think about what the right thing to do is, and then do that. 

With all that said, I'm also conflicted because I think this could potentially ruin college sports as we know them, and I like college sports. I don't have a ton of interest in watching millionaires and the impact that will have the game in my college sports. I realize that's my issue/problem and other people shouldn't have to give up money they've earned just because I want my college sports to stay the way they are, but still I don't really like it.  

What's going to happen when a kid has practice for IU but his agent has him scheduled for an autograph session where he's getting paid $50,000? What if Nike wants him at a commercial shoot as part of his $200,000 shoe deal, but coach wants him at a team event? It's not like the NBA where the player has a contract with the team and a player's union, etc. 

I didn't get into the recruiting aspect. Is a coaches job now to line up as many endorsements as possible to lure a kid in? Can a booster now offer a crazy amount to show up to 1 autograph session, sort of like the old days when boosters would offer a kid $20K to work at his store, but only make work an hour a week or something?

I'm kind of rambling, but I can tell you that if I was coaching at one of these schools I'd be calling every NBA contact I had to get me a job. 

Again, I realize this is probably going to happen, and that it really probably should. But, I still don't really like it. 

Would a kid, especially top flight kid already have an agent?  Zion would still go to duke but his agent would be scouring the regional and national endorsement deals.  

I remember the Obannon case.  It was headlined with things like game changer for ncaa and student athletes

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20 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Would a kid, especially top flight kid already have an agent?  Zion would still go to duke but his agent would be scouring the regional and national endorsement deals.  

I remember the Obannon case.  It was headlined with things like game changer for ncaa and student athletes

Interesting thought. I'm getting all caught up in talk about boosters. But if a kid like Zion comes along, booster money would be chump change compared to shoe endorsements. And arguably he'd get that money no matter where he went. An attractive destination for Zion will be school that receives a lot of national coverage so he can begin building on his brand. 

 I don't know but I just can't see boosters ponying up millions of dollars year after year like some speculate. After a while that well is going to run dry. 

I wonder if the athletes would ultimately fall into a few tiers:
1. Elite one and done athletes - these guys get the big national endorsements
2. top 50 athletes - a mix of regional endorsements and local endorsements boosters organize
3. 4 year players - local endorsements, payment for help running sports camps, etc. 

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5 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Interesting thought. I'm getting all caught up in talk about boosters. But if a kid like Zion comes along, booster money would be chump change compared to shoe endorsements. And arguably he'd get that money no matter where he went. An attractive destination for Zion will be school that receives a lot of national coverage so he can begin building on his brand. 

 I don't know but I just can't see boosters ponying up millions of dollars year after year like some speculate. After a while that well is going to run dry. 

I wonder if the athletes would ultimately fall into a few tiers:
1. Elite one and done athletes - these guys get the big national endorsements
2. top 50 athletes - a mix of regional endorsements and local endorsements boosters organize
3. 4 year players - local endorsements, payment for help running sports camps, etc. 

I think you are onto something here.  

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13 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Interesting thought. I'm getting all caught up in talk about boosters. But if a kid like Zion comes along, booster money would be chump change compared to shoe endorsements. And arguably he'd get that money no matter where he went. An attractive destination for Zion will be school that receives a lot of national coverage so he can begin building on his brand. 

 I don't know but I just can't see boosters ponying up millions of dollars year after year like some speculate. After a while that well is going to run dry. 

I wonder if the athletes would ultimately fall into a few tiers:
1. Elite one and done athletes - these guys get the big national endorsements
2. top 50 athletes - a mix of regional endorsements and local endorsements boosters organize
3. 4 year players - local endorsements, payment for help running sports camps, etc. 

Hopefully in a couple of years the college game won't have to worry about tier 1 when the NBA eliminates the one and done rule.

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