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California's 'Fair Pay to Play Act'


tdhoosier

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Just now, IU Scott said:

Hopefully in a couple of years the college game won't have to worry about tier 1 when the NBA eliminates the one and done rule.

Also true. 

Has anybody thought about the flip side though? Let's say a guy like Troy Williams of JBJ is able to make money in college - does that incentivise them to stay a 4th year instead of leaving a year early? 

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4 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Also true. 

Has anybody thought about the flip side though? Let's say a guy like Troy Williams of JBJ is able to make money in college - does that incentivise them to stay a 4th year instead of leaving a year early? 

I would hope it would stop some of these kids that leave way to early and you never here from again.

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28 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

to me if it could be like the Olympic model and kids like the swimmers can keep their endorsements then I might be fine with it.  My concern is that with the popularity of football and basketball it will never stay above board with cheating involved with it.

Cheating already happens.  Everyone not a Duke fan knows that Zion(or some relative) probably got paid.   Kansas, UNC, UK, Arizona... we all know these programs are dirty.   Do you think it will get worse?  

Go Hoosiers!!!

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18 hours ago, Feathery said:

You realize this is how it’s done already right? And you still watch.  Kids are getting paid by boosters and it is a highest bidder situation in some cases. By changing the law, it actually gives schools like IU a fighting chance to land some talented players. You think it’s a coincidence the best players all go to the same handful of schools regardless of playing time?

Duke has a player a few years ago whose parents filed for bankruptcy and then the next year are buying a $600,000 house in Durham. All legally funneled through AAU. Romeo’s dad got paid legally through AAU.  Rashan Gary (Green Bay Packers) has said he was offered $300,000 by a school recruiting him (presumed to be Clemson). You think it’s a coincidence that Clemson was a good program and now is the top program in the nation?

who was the duke player?

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1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

Interesting thought. I'm getting all caught up in talk about boosters. But if a kid like Zion comes along, booster money would be chump change compared to shoe endorsements. And arguably he'd get that money no matter where he went. An attractive destination for Zion will be school that receives a lot of national coverage so he can begin building on his brand. 

 I don't know but I just can't see boosters ponying up millions of dollars year after year like some speculate. After a while that well is going to run dry. 

I wonder if the athletes would ultimately fall into a few tiers:
1. Elite one and done athletes - these guys get the big national endorsements
2. top 50 athletes - a mix of regional endorsements and local endorsements boosters organize
3. 4 year players - local endorsements, payment for help running sports camps, etc. 

except any one wealthy interest, be it a corporation or an individual, can change it at any given time. say mark cuban wanted indiana to win another championship a couple years back. he could have offered oladipo and zeller $5 million each to stay for one more year. what's $10 million to cuban? he probably maks that in a week. 

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Just now, IU Scott said:

Yes

How so?  What other cheating do you forsee that isn't already happening?

To me these schools(and a couple others) are grabbing the majority of high profile players already.  It's near impossible to win a recruitment battle against these guys unless there is a state or family tie to a school.   I don't think this endorsement deal helps them at all.  If anything it may even hurt them and give other schools a better chance.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

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20 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

It's not out of reach - I just don't think it will happen. And if it does, they will be competing against every other high profile university for the same recruits. A market will form - the hierarchy will not change. The 'haves' are already the 'haves' and they already get the best players because they have the best coaches, facilities, resources, budgets, etc. My point is that the colleges with a well organized booster base ALREADY have an unfair advantage. 

while true to an extent, you have to recognize any company or billionaire can change it on a whim. why not $5 million per year. or $10 million to stay in college instead of the nba. if a billionaire wants his alma mater to win a national championship, he can make it happen. if nike wants oregon to win one they can do it. unlike the nba, which has a salary structure in place, there will be no such limits with this proposal

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20 hours ago, JugRox said:

Not exactly.....because the full power of the booster base cannot be unleashed right now. Boosters cannot go directly to recruits....they must go through the schools. This rule passes, the full power of these football boosters will be felt.

IU basketball won't be left totally in the dust....but they will be part of the 'have nots' rather than the 'haves'.

If you think nothing will change if boosters are allowed to go directly to recruits....well, we disagree. 

yes, a market will form. A market that will require football money to be a serious player. Schools like Iowa, Penn State, and Wisconsin will simply have more money than IU. 

Will an in state recruit go to IU for $200k less than what Penn State is offering? 

indiana won't necessarily become one of the have nots. all it takes is for mark cuban to decide he wants indiana to hang a banner. he already donated 5 million to iu. imagine the roster he could build with that amount. he wouldn't miss the money at all and he could write it off

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20 hours ago, JugRox said:

Not exactly.....because the full power of the booster base cannot be unleashed right now. Boosters cannot go directly to recruits....they must go through the schools. This rule passes, the full power of these football boosters will be felt.

IU basketball won't be left totally in the dust....but they will be part of the 'have nots' rather than the 'haves'.

If you think nothing will change if boosters are allowed to go directly to recruits....well, we disagree. 

yes, a market will form. A market that will require football money to be a serious player. Schools like Iowa, Penn State, and Wisconsin will simply have more money than IU. 

Will an in state recruit go to IU for $200k less than what Penn State is offering? 

why will the schools you mentioned have more money than iu?

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6 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

How so?  What other cheating do you forsee that isn't already happening?

To me these schools(and a couple others) are grabbing the majority of high profile players already.  It's near impossible to win a recruitment battle against these guys unless there is a state or family tie to a school.   I don't think this endorsement deal helps them at all.  If anything it may even hurt them and give other schools a better chance.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

Along those lines, I think it would even the playing field out myself as well.

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2 minutes ago, coachv said:

while true to an extent, you have to recognize any company or billionaire can change it on a whim. why not $5 million per year. or $10 million to stay in college instead of the nba. if a billionaire wants his alma mater to win a national championship, he can make it happen. if nike wants oregon to win one they can do it. unlike the nba, which has a salary structure in place, there will be no such limits with this proposal

Good point about the NBA and limits.  I got the feeling the only way to make this work is if athletes become paid employees and there is a salary structure.  I don't know how else the NCAA could regulate anything unless they do.

Go Hoosiers!!!

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11 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

How so?  What other cheating do you forsee that isn't already happening?

To me these schools(and a couple others) are grabbing the majority of high profile players already.  It's near impossible to win a recruitment battle against these guys unless there is a state or family tie to a school.   I don't think this endorsement deal helps them at all.  If anything it may even hurt them and give other schools a better chance.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

I just think there will still be problems with the shoe companies and agents that will lead to more corruption.  It is just not able just cheating but it will lead to more uneven playing field.  I think those bigger schools will bid for the lower rated kids who went to Villanova or UVA and promise them playing time if they are patient.  I think if these kids are offered more money to sit the bench for a year or two they will so that will hurt the next tier of teams.

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1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

Also true. 

Has anybody thought about the flip side though? Let's say a guy like Troy Williams of JBJ is able to make money in college - does that incentivise them to stay a 4th year instead of leaving a year early? 

of course. i made this point previously

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6 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

Good point about the NBA and limits.  I got the feeling the only way to make this work is if athletes become paid employees and there is a salary structure.  I don't know how else the NCAA could regulate anything unless they do.

Go Hoosiers!!!

So if they are paid employees they will have to file taxes for their income.  Also if they are employees will they just come for basketball and not have to go to school.

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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

to me if it could be like the Olympic model and kids like the swimmers can keep their endorsements then I might be fine with it.  My concern is that with the popularity of football and basketball it will never stay above board with cheating involved with it.

it will actually eliminate all cheating

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13 minutes ago, coachv said:

indiana won't necessarily become one of the have nots. all it takes is for mark cuban to decide he wants indiana to hang a banner. he already donated 5 million to iu. imagine the roster he could build with that amount. he wouldn't miss the money at all and he could write it off

The money that would be going to players is not a donation to the University.  These moneys are going to be highly regulated and taxed to death.  These moneys would be expenditures for marketing, not tax deductible donations.  

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4 minutes ago, coachv said:

it will actually eliminate all cheating

No it won't because if they put some kind of regulation on what you can get or how much you can get there will be ways around getting more to the players.  The best solution is to let anyone who does not want to play college basketball for to the NBA and leave the college game for real college student athletes.  This changing the whole landscape for less than 1% of all players in college sports is ridiculous.

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22 minutes ago, coachv said:

indiana won't necessarily become one of the have nots. all it takes is for mark cuban to decide he wants indiana to hang a banner. he already donated 5 million to iu. imagine the roster he could build with that amount. he wouldn't miss the money at all and he could write it off

Again, the key word is 'donated'. If he sets up an endorsement that will be a marketing expense to be made under a company, which affects the bottom line. There are tax advantages to donating. Endorsing an athlete can not and will not be a 'donation' in the eyes of the law.  You're throwing around the word millions like it means nothing. These guys didn't get rich by frivolously throwing around millions of dollars. 

Another key word is 'already'. Cuban already donated, Nike already donated, FedEx already donated. Money is already flowing into universities from corporations. This money has already created an uneven playing field. This is already happening. I'm not sure the law will add to the money flowing into college athletics - it will redistribute a small percentage of it. 

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18 minutes ago, coachv said:

indiana won't necessarily become one of the have nots. all it takes is for mark cuban to decide he wants indiana to hang a banner. he already donated 5 million to iu. imagine the roster he could build with that amount. he wouldn't miss the money at all and he could write it off

Indiana absolutely wouldn’t become one of the “have-nots” in basketball, and the shoe companies are why.  IU would get the largest share of Adidas’ recruiting budget behind Kansas and Louisville (like I’m sure we already are).

As for the football program, we’re already just about the biggest “have-not” amongst the Power 5 anyway, so what’s the difference?  Lol

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Would these players be free agents every year and can renegotiate after every year and go to the highest bidder.  What a way to try to build your team if you have to worry after every year that you could lose your whole team.  Scholarships are really just 4 1 year contracts so these players would not be held to stay at the school for more than a year.  See I don't want my college sports to be just a big free agent market every year. 

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15 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I just think there will still be problems with the shoe companies and agents that will lead to more corruption.  It is just not able just cheating but it will lead to more uneven playing field.  I think those bigger schools will bid for the lower rated kids who went to Villanova or UVA and promise them playing time if they are patient.  I think if these kids are offered more money to sit the bench for a year or two they will so that will hurt the next tier of teams.

But how is that any different than what the big programs are already doing now?   At least with making endorsement deals legal other schools could compete for athletes.

Go Hoosiers!!!

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6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Would these players be free agents every year and can renegotiate after every year and go to the highest bidder.  What a way to try to build your team if you have to worry after every year that you could lose your whole team.  Scholarships are really just 4 1 year contracts so these players would not be held to stay at the school for more than a year.  See I don't want my college sports to be just a big free agent market every year. 

Not sure why that changes anything.  If you transfer you sit out.

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9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Would these players be free agents every year and can renegotiate after every year and go to the highest bidder.  What a way to try to build your team if you have to worry after every year that you could lose your whole team.  Scholarships are really just 4 1 year contracts so these players would not be held to stay at the school for more than a year.  See I don't want my college sports to be just a big free agent market every year. 

Dang Scott the Grad Transfer rule is already like free agency as is kids transferring at will.

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