rico Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: haha because that is you opinion because I don't feel like they are exploited which is my opinion. Maybe you need to learn what a fact means because what you said is no where near a fact. Fact: Peyton manning played QB in the NFL Opinion: Peyton manning was the best QB to ever play the game. Fact: Peyton Manning made millions for UT, the NCAA, and TV Networks Fact: Peyton Manning is one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted September 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 57 minutes ago, coachv said: of course i am throwing around hypotheticals to address what can spill out of pandoras box with this proposal. my hypotheticals may not occur but no one can stop them from occurring. also, you are comparing donations with endorsements as if they are similar. they are not. donations will do nothing to specifically target an individual recruit and ensure his commitment. an endorsement deal does precisely that. finally, while i understand a privately held storage facility would lose money on such an endorsement deal, you are missing my point. the storage facility's ability to make solvent business decisions is not the point. the facility was started for the SOLE purpose of funneling money to athletes. making a profit is besides the point. let's make it simpler. instead of a dealership (although every basketball player will be driving a brand new escalade), or storage facility, let's say big $ starts a website like tdh, which we all love. now big $ can pay any player however much they want to say," i get all my indiana sports news from the daily hoosier!" great. here's your money. see you on the court! jsut a way to legally get the money in the hands of the player. if you want something that makes more business sense, let's try another scenario. let's say you own the concessions contract at memorial stadium. you could buy the chase youngs and justin fields of the world. more wins sells more tickets which sells more beer and hot dogs. there, a solid business investment. and to make sure everyone wins, the indiana athletic dept. just renewed your concessions contract for another ten years. wink wink grin grin I'm just saying make the hypotheticals realistic. You're throwing around a bunch of big numbers and crazy scenarios that I'd see in an Amazon Prime Anti-Hero drama starring Cuba Gooding Jr. Simply just stating that Mark Cuban's going to set up a company that'd lose money only to fund the endorsements of Indiana Basketball players (or something along those lines) is just not based in reality. Bottom line is that a players value will be established based on many criteria, mainly their ranking. The schools who can offer to fulfill that value by helping to organize endorsement opportunities will be considered. It's not like all the players are going to be worth $10 million and only Duke/UK will be able to afford them. Maybe a Zion will be worth $3 million (being very generous), but most of that will come from national contracts. A Romeo maybe able to fetch $500,000 in the open market. A Jerome Hunter may be worth $20k. Rob Phinisee may be worth $5k. *completely pulling these numbers out of my arse* Could Cuban walk in and pay players endorsements? sure. But he's not going to to pay $1 million for Rob Phinisee just because he's rich. A market will form and it will dictate how much players are worth. Players won't be foolishly over-valued. Just like always programs are going to have anywhere from 1-5 spots are going to get filled. , Duke isn't going to be taking 20 guys. The biggest OSU football boosters are going to suddenly develop a passion for college basketball. Kids will still have to go to classes. etc. etc. And I honestly think this could possibly spread the wealth. For example, will a player be worth more it they are going to be the 3rd best at Duke or the best player at IU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, coachv said: i wasn't aware people could ask others to leave ...but i am new here I quoted your own words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, rico said: Fact: Peyton Manning made millions for UT, the NCAA, and TV Networks Fact: Peyton Manning is one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game. You have no idea what real exploitation is if you think these athletes are being exploited. try watching shows where these pimps are kidnapping these young girls and forcing them into the sex trade. I feel so sorry for these athletes who are getting over $50,00 a year in an education and living expenses and all the free advertising they can get. You are not being exploited when you have a choice and these athletes do have a choice to play college or not to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 I hope we can find a topic that Scott and coachv can disagree on. Get the popcorn ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Just now, IU Scott said: You have no idea what real exploitation is if you think these athletes are being exploited. try watching shows where these pimps are kidnapping these young girls and forcing them into the sex trade. I feel so sorry for these athletes who are getting over $50,00 a year in an education and living expenses and all the free advertising they can get. You are not being exploited when you have a choice and these athletes do have a choice to play college or not to play. And Michigan St. says hello.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: I'm just saying make the hypotheticals realistic. You're throwing around a bunch of big numbers and crazy scenarios that I'd see in an Amazon Prime Anti-Hero drama starring Cuba Gooding Jr. Simply just stating that Mark Cuban's going to set up a company that'd lose money only to fund the endorsements of Indiana Basketball players (or something along those lines) is just not based in reality. Bottom line is that a players value will be established based on many criteria, mainly their ranking. The schools who can offer to fulfill that value by helping to organize endorsement opportunities will be considered. It's not like all the players are going to be worth $10 million and only Duke/UK will be able to afford them. Maybe a Zion will be worth $3 million (being very generous), but most of that will come from national contracts. A Romeo maybe able to fetch $500,000 in the open market. A Jerome Hunter may be worth $20k. Rob Phinisee may be worth $5k. *completely pulling these numbers out of my arse* Could Cuban walk in and pay players endorsements? sure. But he's not going to to pay $1 million for Rob Phinisee just because he's rich. A market will form and it will dictate how much players are worth. Players won't be foolishly over-valued. Just like always programs are going to have anywhere from 1-5 spots are going to get filled. , Duke isn't going to be taking 20 guys. The biggest OSU boosters are going to suddenly develop a passion for college basketball. Kids will still have to go to classes. etc. etc. And I honestly think this could possibly spread the wealth. For example, will a player be worth more it they are going to be the 3rd best at Duke or the best player at IU? Have you ever watched any thing about the mob and how they set up legit companies just to launder money from their illegal activities. They set up a business making it look legit but that is just a front so they can put thier money into that business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Just now, NotIThatLives said: I hope we can find a topic that Scott and coachv can disagree on. Get the popcorn ready. Well tie analytics on a hook and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Just now, rico said: And Michigan St. says hello.... How did MSU exploit their players because they exploited the victims which they should have been punished for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 hours ago, tdhoosier said: I'm just saying make the hypotheticals realistic. You're throwing around a bunch of big numbers and crazy scenarios that I'd see in an Amazon Prime Anti-Hero drama starring Cuba Gooding Jr. Simply just stating that Mark Cuban's going to set up a company that'd lose money only to fund the endorsements of Indiana Basketball players (or something along those lines) is just not based in reality. Bottom line is that a players value will be established based on many criteria, mainly their ranking. The schools who can offer to fulfill that value by helping to organize endorsement opportunities will be considered. It's not like all the players are going to be worth $10 million and only Duke/UK will be able to afford them. Maybe a Zion will be worth $3 million (being very generous), but most of that will come from national contracts. A Romeo maybe able to fetch $500,000 in the open market. A Jerome Hunter may be worth $20k. Rob Phinisee may be worth $5k. *completely pulling these numbers out of my arse* Could Cuban walk in and pay players endorsements? sure. But he's not going to to pay $1 million for Rob Phinisee just because he's rich. A market will form and it will dictate how much players are worth. Players won't be foolishly over-valued. Just like always programs are going to have anywhere from 1-5 spots are going to get filled. , Duke isn't going to be taking 20 guys. The biggest OSU boosters are going to suddenly develop a passion for college basketball. Kids will still have to go to classes. etc. etc. And I honestly think this could possibly spread the wealth. For example, will a player be worth more it they are going to be the 3rd best at Duke or the best player at IU? of course i am throwing big numbers around to make the point that there will be no limits. would cuban throw a million at phinisee? of course not. phinisee would not be recruited at all. cuban (hypothetically) would get the number one point guard in the country. you yourself said romeo might garner 500k. then the top point guard could very well be worth a million. so how unrealistic am i being? perhaps a nike wants zion to play in their backyard here they could have ready access to his earning potential. boom! university of oregon. while we're at it, maybe wants all of the top 7 recruits. then they get them. perhaps usc and ucla benefit from this legislation because of their proximity to hollywood? lots to unpackage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: I hope we can find a topic that Scott and coachv can disagree on. Get the popcorn ready. i have already disagreed several times with scott on this topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: I'm just saying make the hypotheticals realistic. You're throwing around a bunch of big numbers and crazy scenarios that I'd see in an Amazon Prime Anti-Hero drama starring Cuba Gooding Jr. Simply just stating that Mark Cuban's going to set up a company that'd lose money only to fund the endorsements of Indiana Basketball players (or something along those lines) is just not based in reality. Bottom line is that a players value will be established based on many criteria, mainly their ranking. The schools who can offer to fulfill that value by helping to organize endorsement opportunities will be considered. It's not like all the players are going to be worth $10 million and only Duke/UK will be able to afford them. Maybe a Zion will be worth $3 million (being very generous), but most of that will come from national contracts. A Romeo maybe able to fetch $500,000 in the open market. A Jerome Hunter may be worth $20k. Rob Phinisee may be worth $5k. *completely pulling these numbers out of my arse* Could Cuban walk in and pay players endorsements? sure. But he's not going to to pay $1 million for Rob Phinisee just because he's rich. A market will form and it will dictate how much players are worth. Players won't be foolishly over-valued. Just like always programs are going to have anywhere from 1-5 spots are going to get filled. , Duke isn't going to be taking 20 guys. The biggest OSU boosters are going to suddenly develop a passion for college basketball. Kids will still have to go to classes. etc. etc. And I honestly think this could possibly spread the wealth. For example, will a player be worth more it they are going to be the 3rd best at Duke or the best player at IU? is cuba gooding still alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 For any of you that know someone that needs "diversity training" I would suggest you give them this thread. It's incredible. Great reading. Great arguments. Sure glad I'm retired and have time to take this all in. But I still don't have a solution. Got an opinion, but no need to add it to all of these. You have them all covered. And more importantly...it's very civil considering the strong positions. Can you even imagine how far this thread would have been denigrated on rivals by now..?? Hell, they wouldn't have made it to the 2nd page before declaring war on each other. I love it ! Gotta be the best forum board in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 minute ago, DWB said: For any of you that know someone that needs "diversity training" I would suggest you give them this thread. It's incredible. Great reading. Great arguments. Sure glad I'm retired and have time to take this all in. But I still don't have a solution. Got an opinion, but no need to add it to all of these. You have them all covered. And more importantly...it's very civil considering the strong positions. Can you even imagine how far this thread would have been denigrated on rivals by now..?? Hell, they wouldn't have made it to the 2nd page before declaring war on each other. I love it ! Gotta be the best forum board in the country. well, there is ricco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted September 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 minute ago, coachv said: of course i am throwing big numbers around to make the point that there will be no limits. will cuban throw a million at phinisee. of course not. phinisee will not be recruited at all. cuban (hypothetically) would get the number one point guard in the country. you yourself said romeo might garner 500k. then the top point guard could very well be worth a million. perhaps a nike wants zion to play in their backyard here they could have ready access to his earning potential. boom! university of oregon. while we're at it, maybe wants all of the top 7 recruits. then they get them. perhaps usc and ucla benefit from this legislation because of their proximity to hollywood? lots to unpackage Zion playing on the west coast in Oregon is not good for his (or Nike's) earning potential. If we was from the Northwest then maybe. A value will be set. If it's a million for the top point guard only 10 schools will be in contention with the law in place. And those same schools would be in contention without the law in place. We'll just disagree if this brings other schools into the fray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted September 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, coachv said: is cuba gooding still alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 hours ago, JugRox said: LOL.....for the love of god.... https://money.cnn.com/2015/08/18/news/indiana-university-adidas-deal/index.html Adidas pays IU $6.7 million a year. For comparison, Wisconsin makes $16 million........PER HOME FOOTBALL GAME.... lol https://madison.com/wsj/sports/college/wisconsin-badgers-athletics-million-annual-impact-for-state-is-down/article_add1a385-3180-5be8-b5e0-111edf9678c6.html And just think about those Wisconsin football boosters hosting a basketball recruit.... Jesus....you people obviously don't follow college football. Lol, you’re so far off in la la land you’re almost not even worth responding to. Conflating ticket revenue with booster money and comparing Wisconsin football ticket revenue to IU’s sponsorship deal with Adidas is real BRAIN GENIUS stuff. Keep enlightening the masses, Einstein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Zion playing on the west coast in Oregon is not good for his (or Nike's) earning potential. If we was from the Northwest then maybe. A value will be set. If it's a million for the top point guard only 10 schools will be in contention with the law in place. And those same schools would be in contention without the law in place. We'll just disagree if this brings other schools into the fray. i was thinking unless they handle marketing, photo shoots, commercials on location at nike headquarters, which as you know, is in oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: see, that was before he died. i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy1987 Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Have you ever watched any thing about the mob and how they set up legit companies just to launder money from their illegal activities. They set up a business making it look legit but that is just a front so they can put thier money into that business. There will be no need to hide or launder money to pay players under the table. It won't be illegal. If Nike tells player A we will pay you 500k to wear our shoes and go to UK. That player can go to Addidas and say I like IU can you match that? No rules broken when this thing passes. The money laundering and illegal activities you speak of are already happening. And its rampant. And the NCAA continues to let it happen because those are the same schools making them money. Go Hoosiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, coachv said: see, that was before he died. i think I pretty sure he is still alive but this career might be dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Indy1987 said: There will be no need to hide or launder money to pay players under the table. It won't be illegal. If Nike tells player A we will pay you 500k to wear our shoes and go to UK. That player can go to Addidas and say I like IU can you match that? No rules broken when this thing passes. The money laundering and illegal activities you speak of are already happening. And its rampant. And the NCAA continues to let it happen because those are the same schools making them money. Go Hoosiers!!! I was responding to you who said boosters would not open up a company just to be able to get players to sponsor them. I was just showing you can start up a business with really minimal cost. They would start these businesses legally so they could egually pay the players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 One thing that nobody has mentioned is that the NCAA doesn’t just arbitrarily make rules. It hasn’t always been against the rules for players to get paid for their likeness. This rule was implemented because the member schools of the NCAA decided to, after deliberating the pros and cons. I don’t know but I’m guessing that there were abuses happening. That those abuses became so egregious that someone decided to propose a rule against it to level the playing field. That rule was deliberated and passed to stop the abusing schools from having an unfair advantage. Some of the stories I’ve heard about what happened around the Oklahoma University football program going back to the 40’s are mind boggling for that time, and it was all legal back then. These rules were instituted for a reason. Right, wrong or indifferent, human nature hasn’t changed since then so I’m thinking whatever abuses were happening back then will eventually happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 36 minutes ago, Indy1987 said: There will be no need to hide or launder money to pay players under the table. It won't be illegal. If Nike tells player A we will pay you 500k to wear our shoes and go to UK. That player can go to Addidas and say I like IU can you match that? No rules broken when this thing passes. The money laundering and illegal activities you speak of are already happening. And its rampant. And the NCAA continues to let it happen because those are the same schools making them money. Go Hoosiers!!! This is basically the end of this conversation until stuff passes and the ncaa is forced to respond. To go along with NBA changing rules as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: This is basically the end of this conversation until stuff passes and the ncaa is forced to respond. To go along with NBA changing rules as well. You left out one possibility...the legislation could end up forcing the NCAA to dis-ban. College athletics were around before them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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