coachv Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: You are describing only a small subset of the college athletes experience. And even then still glamorizing it to fit your narrative if you say so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 42 minutes ago, coachv said: i agree. next time someone tells you schools make millions off of these kids, remember that the schools also invest millions in them. recruiting them, free tuition and books, free masters degree, free tutors, mentoring, the best housing, much better food than any other students get, the best training and equipment money can buy, a chance to travel and see the country, a stipend...am i leaving anything out? wish some school would have taken advantage of me like that. Even though I don't agree with you (Dark money wouldn't exist if this were enough), I will concede because this is an argument against universities paying athletes to play a sport, which is not what the law would do. The law is for allowing kids to make money outside of this realm and how much they'd make (or if they make anything at all) would be completely dependent on what the market dictates. You, the NCAA or the universities shouldn't be able to dictate what that is. Side note, I don't like the fact that the creators of these obnoxious YouTube videos my 8 year old loves get paid millions, but it's not my say. They have millions of subscribers and people pay to advertise with them. Nobody cares what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 57 minutes ago, coachv said: i agree. next time someone tells you schools make millions off of these kids, remember that the schools also invest millions in them. recruiting them, free tuition and books, free masters degree, free tutors, mentoring, the best housing, much better food than any other students get, the best training and equipment money can buy, a chance to travel and see the country, a stipend...am i leaving anything out? wish some school would have taken advantage of me like that. Free medical and some of the best doctors and training staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 54 minutes ago, coachv said: not me. i would only buy it if it says "indiana". doubt i'm the only one You are not the only one because I would never buy a jersey of a player that did not play for my team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy1987 Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 hour ago, coachv said: i agree. next time someone tells you schools make millions off of these kids, remember that the schools also invest millions in them. recruiting them, free tuition and books, free masters degree, free tutors, mentoring, the best housing, much better food than any other students get, the best training and equipment money can buy, a chance to travel and see the country, a stipend...am i leaving anything out? wish some school would have taken advantage of me like that. You are right with that in some regards. The big schools do have basketball and football athletes that do get all of that and more. But what you don't mention is all the small sport teams(especially at small schools)that don't have this life of luxury. And not every college athlete is on a full scholarship. My daughter ran in high school and received a couple partial offers to run at a couple smaller schools. The amount offered would have barely covered her books. A lot of people make the argument well they can get a job and... I worked through college so can they to pay their bills, etc... That may sound good but these athletes are required to spend countless hours practicing and traveling to games. Then thrown in classes. Not too many people could handle a job and be successful in class and on the field. To me this comes down to what's fair for all college athletes. The NCAA dropped the ball on this a long time ago. And if they don't address this soon and make changes then states are going to change the system for them. Go Hoosiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Indy1987 said: You are right with that in some regards. The big schools do have basketball and football athletes that do get all of that and more. But what you don't mention is all the small sport teams(especially at small schools)that don't have this life of luxury. And not every college athlete is on a full scholarship. My daughter ran in high school and received a couple partial offers to run at a couple smaller schools. The amount offered would have barely covered her books. A lot of people make the argument well they can get a job and... I worked through college so can they to pay their bills, etc... That may sound good but these athletes are required to spend countless hours practicing and traveling to games. Then thrown in classes. Not too many people could handle a job and be successful in class and on the field. To me this comes down to what's fair for all college athletes. The NCAA dropped the ball on this a long time ago. And if they don't address this soon and make changes then states are going to change the system for them. Go Hoosiers!!! I might agree with you about them not being treated fairly if they were made to play college sports but no one is holding a gun to their head to play college sports. Also if you think this bill will help athletes in these smaller sports or colleges then I think you will be way off on that one. it will still just be mainly for basketball and football players at the highest levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 27 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Also if you think this bill will help athletes in these smaller sports or colleges then I think you will be way off on that one. it will still just be mainly for basketball and football players at the highest levels. https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceceliatownes/2019/09/16/why-the-california-fair-pay-to-play-act-could-be-a-financial-win-for-female-athletes/#2ec539c04c72 Quote The NCAA’s rules ensured that each of these women missed out on opportunities to earn valuable income during the prime of their careers. This income would have placed no burden on their respective colleges, and done no harm to their respective sports, but would have elevated their lives personally. Because women’s sports still have yet to provide salaries and winnings that comport with those seen in men’s sports, because professional playing opportunities are fewer for women than men and because the playing span of a female athlete is shorter than that of a man, endorsements are key for female athletes. In fact, endorsements (and other opportunities to earn income from one’s NIL) may be the only opportunity that a talented female athlete has to be compensated for her skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy1987 Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I might agree with you about them not being treated fairly if they were made to play college sports but no one is holding a gun to their head to play college sports. Also if you think this bill will help athletes in these smaller sports or colleges then I think you will be way off on that one. it will still just be mainly for basketball and football players at the highest levels. You're right no gun to the head. But to many of these kids sports is the only way to attend college to make a better life for themselves. Kids from poor/bad neighborhoods that have no future without the opportunity. You're not against that surely? And please explain how this wouldn't help small sport/school athletes. We've given numerous examples on ways these kids could earn a few bucks. No it's not millions like the basketball players. However making a hundred bucks coaching a camp goes a long way when your family is dirt poor. I get that you think the players are selfish for wanting more. I used to think that as well but once you look at the big picture you see how wrong and unfair the current system is to all athletes. Go Hoosiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, Indy1987 said: You're right no gun to the head. But to many of these kids sports is the only way to attend college to make a better life for themselves. Kids from poor/bad neighborhoods that have no future without the opportunity. You're not against that surely? And please explain how this wouldn't help small sport/school athletes. We've given numerous examples on ways these kids could earn a few bucks. No it's not millions like the basketball players. However making a hundred bucks coaching a camp goes a long way when your family is dirt poor. I get that you think the players are selfish for wanting more. I used to think that as well but once you look at the big picture you see how wrong and unfair the current system is to all athletes. Go Hoosiers!!! Because no sponsors are going to use kids in ads that has no notoriety. When I was talking about them not having to play in college I did not mean they would have to give up sports. they have alternatives to college if they don't want to be exploited(HAHA) in college. They can go play over seas or the G-League or just sit out a year and train for the draft. You see plenty of football players not finish their last year and leave school to train for the draft. PS I don't think the system is unfair at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy1987 Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: Because no sponsors are going to use kids in ads that has no notoriety. When I was talking about them not having to play in college I did not mean they would have to give up sports. they have alternatives to college if they don't want to be exploited(HAHA) in college. They can go play over seas or the G-League or just sit out a year and train for the draft. You see plenty of football players not finish their last year and leave school to train for the draft. PS I don't think the system is unfair at all There aren't overseas options for every sport. And female pro sports are rare. Stop focusing this on basketball. And forget about commercials and big sponsors this bill is not just about them. Here's another example since you don't seem to see how the others given would help athletes... Take the tennis team. Very few of the kids are going pro. And no they don't have a ton of notoriety. So let's say the local golf and tennis club wants to have a Summer camp for kids. Under the current rules athletes couldn't be paid to come and give instructions or even a talk to the camp. But lift the ban and that tennis club owner might hire say 3 or 4 players for the job. The tennis club owner then can promote the event and is able to say he has IU's top tennis stars to help. To a little kid that can be huge to be taught by a college player. Again this might not be a lot of money but again they would at least be able to earn from their sport. Go Hoosiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 5 hours ago, tdhoosier said: Even though I don't agree with you (Dark money wouldn't exist if this were enough), I will concede because this is an argument against universities paying athletes to play a sport, which is not what the law would do. The law is for allowing kids to make money outside of this realm and how much they'd make (or if they make anything at all) would be completely dependent on what the market dictates. You, the NCAA or the universities shouldn't be able to dictate what that is. Side note, I don't like the fact that the creators of these obnoxious YouTube videos my 8 year old loves get paid millions, but it's not my say. They have millions of subscribers and people pay to advertise with them. Nobody cares what I think. i never said athletes should not be allowed to make money outside the realm of the ncaa. just pointing out the obvious. that while some programs make millions off the collective effort of athletes, so to do they invest millions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 3 hours ago, IU Scott said: I might agree with you about them not being treated fairly if they were made to play college sports but no one is holding a gun to their head to play college sports. Also if you think this bill will help athletes in these smaller sports or colleges then I think you will be way off on that one. it will still just be mainly for basketball and football players at the highest levels. and olympic level athletes in non-revenue sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Indy1987 said: You're right no gun to the head. But to many of these kids sports is the only way to attend college to make a better life for themselves. Kids from poor/bad neighborhoods that have no future without the opportunity. You're not against that surely? And please explain how this wouldn't help small sport/school athletes. We've given numerous examples on ways these kids could earn a few bucks. No it's not millions like the basketball players. However making a hundred bucks coaching a camp goes a long way when your family is dirt poor. I get that you think the players are selfish for wanting more. I used to think that as well but once you look at the big picture you see how wrong and unfair the current system is to all athletes. Go Hoosiers!!! why would company offer an endorsement contract to a small school athlete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 50 minutes ago, Indy1987 said: There aren't overseas options for every sport. And female pro sports are rare. Stop focusing this on basketball. And forget about commercials and big sponsors this bill is not just about them. Here's another example since you don't seem to see how the others given would help athletes... Take the tennis team. Very few of the kids are going pro. And no they don't have a ton of notoriety. So let's say the local golf and tennis club wants to have a Summer camp for kids. Under the current rules athletes couldn't be paid to come and give instructions or even a talk to the camp. But lift the ban and that tennis club owner might hire say 3 or 4 players for the job. The tennis club owner then can promote the event and is able to say he has IU's top tennis stars to help. To a little kid that can be huge to be taught by a college player. Again this might not be a lot of money but again they would at least be able to earn from their sport. Go Hoosiers!!! i'm not sure they would get paid for that. as a young basketball coach, i worked a couple summer camps for lou campenelli at cal. i was there all week and had to sleep in the dorms to supervise the campers. i didn't get paid a dime. guess i was also being exploited. lol even if they are now kids getting paid i'm sure it is minimum wage or less. these small school athletes you are worried about could make more money with a regular job than camps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, coachv said: i'm not sure they would get paid for that. as a young basketball coach, i worked a couple summer camps for lou campenelli at cal. i was there all week and had to sleep in the dorms to supervise the campers. i didn't get paid a dime. guess i was also being exploited. lol even if they are now kids getting paid i'm sure it is minimum wage or less. these small school athletes you are worried about could make more money with a regular job than camps Did you see that post a few pages back about the breaststroke camp at IU with Cody Miller, Ian Finnerty, Annie Lazor and Lily King? Just because you don’t know these swimmers doesn’t mean kids who swim don’t . The camp is $300 a kid and they’re almost sold out. These camps can have 100 spots available. That’s $30k in revenue that the camp generates. Sure, they may have to rent the pool, get some swag, snacks, pay helpers, etc. but once those expenses are taken out that’s a lot of money to split up. Finnerty, Lazor and King couldn’t do this 6 months ago before they graduated. Even if they make $2k, that’s a lot of money for a days work - especially for a college student. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachv Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Did you see that post a few pages back about the breaststroke camp at IU with Cody Miller, Ian Finnerty, Annie Lazor and Lily King? Just because you don’t know these swimmers doesn’t mean kids who swim don’t . The camp is $300 a kid and they’re almost sold out. These camps can have 100 spots available. That’s $30k in revenue that the camp generates. Sure, they may have to rent the pool, get some swag, snacks, pay helpers, etc. but once those expenses are taken out that’s a lot of money to split up. Finnerty, Lazor and King couldn’t do this 6 months ago before they graduated. Even if they make $2k, that’s a lot of money for a days work - especially for a college student. is it run by indiana or is it private? way back when i coached that camp the kids paid $400 but they slept overnight. still, i got nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy1987 Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 hour ago, coachv said: why would company offer an endorsement contract to a small school athlete? Small schools still have followings don't they? And again I'm not talking some national ad. This is like small time community stuff. If a new golf store opened in the town and they wanted to pay the top golfer on the team to come out and give tips kinda thing. Is that unheard of now? Yep. Maybe it is only because it's not allowed. I think you would see plenty of these small opportunities for athletes. Might sound like small potatoes to some but to others its not. Go Hoosiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy1987 Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 hour ago, coachv said: i'm not sure they would get paid for that. as a young basketball coach, i worked a couple summer camps for lou campenelli at cal. i was there all week and had to sleep in the dorms to supervise the campers. i didn't get paid a dime. guess i was also being exploited. lol even if they are now kids getting paid i'm sure it is minimum wage or less. these small school athletes you are worried about could make more money with a regular job than camps They can't now but this would open the door for them to make money by doing them. Sure volunteering for some happens but have you sent any kids to a sports camp lately? It's not cheap. If the athletes are helping bring in kids to a camp then they absolutely deserve a cut. And this is big school small sports not just small schools that this impacts. All athletes. Go Hoosiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, coachv said: is it run by indiana or is it private? way back when i coached that camp the kids paid $400 but they slept overnight. still, i got nothing. It’s private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, coachv said: is it run by indiana or is it private? way back when i coached that camp the kids paid $400 but they slept overnight. still, i got nothing. It’s private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feathery Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 hours ago, coachv said: and olympic level athletes in non-revenue sports Speaking of Olympic level athletes. There was a Olympic skier that was ruled ineligible by the ncaa back in the 2000’s because he made money off of his likeness. He was supposed to be the kicker or something for Colorado’s football team. Total crap. Making money off something not related to football and still couldn’t play. NCAA sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Feathery said: Speaking of Olympic level athletes. There was a Olympic skier that was ruled ineligible by the ncaa back in the 2000’s because he made money off of his likeness. He was supposed to be the kicker or something for Colorado’s football team. Total crap. Making money off something not related to football and still couldn’t play. NCAA sucks. Jeremy Bloom...google him. The NCAA has since changed the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 It seems really slow on here so maybe I should go on a rant to get thing going LOL! I saw something on a college basketball app I have on my phone where they did a survey about players getting compensated. It broke it down by state on which states were in favor and against they players getting compensated. 39 out of 50 states approved of this happening but one of the 11 states that disapproved was Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted September 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: It seems really slow on here so maybe I should go on a rant to get thing going LOL! I saw something on a college basketball app I have on my phone where they did a survey about players getting compensated. It broke it down by state on which states were in favor and against they players getting compensated. 39 out of 50 states approved of this happening but one of the 11 states that disapproved was Indiana. Haha. I'm not sure if that is something to boast about, nor does it surprise me because Indiana might be the least progressive state in the Union. I mean, we were just allowed the right to purchase alcohol on Sundays, but even now, it still has to be between 12:00 and 4:00 pm. And god forbid we purchase cold alcohol in a grocery store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Haha. I'm not sure if that is something to boast about, nor does it surprise me because Indiana might be the least progressive state in the Union. I mean, we were just allowed the right to purchase alcohol on Sundays, but even now, it still has to be between 12:00 and 4:00 pm. And god forbid we purchase cold alcohol in a grocery store. Did somebody mention alcohol? LOL But as a guy that traveled around a bunch, our alcohol laws are nothing compared to some states. But Scott mentioned the polls. Didn't say players voted. I bet if you asked the kids that are athletes and enrolled in Indiana, the results would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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