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Depth


DWB

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 Seems we have 5 players that we know can contribute.  Davis, Smith, Durham, Green and Phinisee.  We have one, Anderson that will need to have improved to joined players already listed.  That leaves us with basically 5 unknowns.  Sure you can say we've seen Race but now I think we can   finally see what kind of player he really is.  The rest are college basketball unknowns but all reports seem to indicate that they should all contribute next year, with maybe the exception of Franklin.  Having said all that, how can we not be optimistic?  Loved Juwan and Romeo but I do think we have some depth.

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43 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

All kinds of reasons for transfers.  Coaching changes, etc.  Yeah, Grant Gelon got cut by Coach Miller. But, Grant has transferred, not once, but twice since then. Due to coaching changes. If Coach Miller is not cutting me.  I am staying. And proving to him that he did not make a mistake by offering me a scholarship, by finding out  what I can do to earn more PT.  And working on it... rather than walking away.  Walking away is a defeatist attitude, IMHO. 

I know we are both of the same mindset where we love the college game and really don't care for the NBA all that much.   We can't believe that these kids are more worried about getting themselves ready for pro ball over what is best for their college team.  The problem is that more and more kids think they will be able to make it to the NBA and will leave their college team in a hear beat if they don't think they are developing fast enough for the NBA or pro ball.  These kids are fed a bogus line that they can be pro players when the majority of them will never play after college but in their minds they are pro players.

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2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I know we are both of the same mindset where we love the college game and really don't care for the NBA all that much.   We can't believe that these kids are more worried about getting themselves ready for pro ball over what is best for their college team.  The problem is that more and more kids think they will be able to make it to the NBA and will leave their college team in a hear beat if they don't think they are developing fast enough for the NBA or pro ball.  These kids are fed a bogus line that they can be pro players when the majority of them will never play after college but in their minds they are pro players.

Scott, you said that you earned a college degree. I am assuming that you did so to lead you to the career you have now. Isn’t that what these kids are working towards? I would be disappointed in any high level player on our roster who wasn’t working to improve themselves so they could earn a professional position. 

Being focused on the future and being dedicated to your current team don’t have to be disassociated goals 

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4 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Scott, you said that you earned a college degree. I am assuming that you did so to lead you to the career you have now. Isn’t that what these kids are working towards? I would be disappointed in any high level player on our roster who wasn’t working to improve themselves so they could earn a professional position. 

Being focused on the future and being dedicated to your current team don’t have to be disassociated goals 

I don't blame them but most of them have no shot of playing past college and who I was talking about.  A lot of these kids are sold the idea that they will make pro ball so they decide to transfer and not work on your game and earn the playing time.

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On 9/27/2019 at 6:26 AM, milehiiu said:

Depth helps more than just injury.  Depth helps in terms of fouls.  Either in keeping a player from fouling out.  And saving him for crunch time.  Or having quality coming in, when and if the guy in front of him fouls out. 

"Give me depth, or give me death".   LOL

there are definitely different schools of thought with subbing.  the newer school of bball usually subs kids out more than i think necessary and plays kids further down the bench than i think necessary.  Coach K obviously still goes old school and often has McD's AA who barely touch the floor.  my thing about the fouls, etc., is sure, you should absolutely do that, but you can do that with 9 or 10 guys easily.  why play #11 and down if they are not as good as the other guys.  it's not equal opportunity.  the best guys should play unless they are tired or in foul trouble and if we're healthy, i can't accept that college kids get tired so easily that you need to use 11 or more guys in a close game.  

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9 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

there are definitely different schools of thought with subbing.  the newer school of bball usually subs kids out more than i think necessary and plays kids further down the bench than i think necessary.  Coach K obviously still goes old school and often has McD's AA who barely touch the floor.  my thing about the fouls, etc., is sure, you should absolutely do that, but you can do that with 9 or 10 guys easily.  why play #11 and down if they are not as good as the other guys.  it's not equal opportunity.  the best guys should play unless they are tired or in foul trouble and if we're healthy, i can't accept that college kids get tired so easily that you need to use 11 or more guys in a close game.  

I never understand how 18 to 20 yo kids can't play 30 minutes a game at this level.

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  • 1 month later...

Just revisiting this thread. And I think it’s fair to say, up until now, we are getting just about everything and more....just about from everybody. 

i know it’s hard to gauge against the cupcakes, so take this with a grain of salt, but we have...

- Justin playing harder and smarter. His shot looks pretty good too. 
- TJD is the real deal. 
- Race is going to get a lot of minutes this year because it’s going to be hard to keep him off the floor - especially when he’s paired with TJD. Last night we got a front row seat to the ‘Trayce and Race’ show. 
- Franklin and Damezi are playing better than I expected. They may not get a ton of minutes once the competition ramps up but they’ll be valuable contributors. 
- Brunk is solid and tough. His feet are a bit slow when in isolation against an athletic post, but he’s going to battle, get some valuable rebounds and garbage points. 
- Al is more aggressive, confident and has improved his shot. 
- Hunter has shown glimpses. He has a smooth shot and is long. I still think he’s shaking off some rust but there’s no reason to think, come January, he won’t be getting a good amount of minutes.

With all this depth I’m not sure I can even list our strongest line up. Assuming we stay healthy, I think our best line up will be situational and revolve around TJD and Rob.  And I think the one player who makes this ‘wealth’ possible is Race. Holy cow - he’s like McBob in the sense you can’t keep him off the floor, but he’s a much better player.  And we’ll have him for 2.5 more years.

minus a half or so of uninspiring play, I’m  not sure I could’ve asked for more 4 games into the season. 

 

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15 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Just revisiting this thread. And I think it’s fair to say, up until now, we are getting just about everything and more....just about from everybody. 

i know it’s hard to gauge against the cupcakes, so take this with a grain of salt, but we have...

- Justin playing harder and smarter. His shot looks pretty good too. 
- TJD is the real deal. 
- Race is going to get a lot of minutes this year because it’s going to be hard to keep him off the floor - especially when he’s paired with TJD. Last night we got a front row seat to the ‘Trayce and Race’ show. 
- Franklin and Damezi are playing better than I expected. They may not get a ton of minutes once the competition ramps up but they’ll be valuable contributors. 
- Brunk is solid and tough. His feet are a bit slow when in isolation against an athletic post, but he’s going to battle, get some valuable rebounds and garbage points. 
- Al is more aggressive, confident and has improved his shot. 
- Hunter has shown glimpses. He has a smooth shot and is long. I still think he’s shaking off some rust but there’s no reason to think, come January, he won’t be getting a good amount of minutes.

With all this depth I’m not sure I can even list our strongest line up. Assuming we stay healthy, I think our best line up will be situational and revolve around TJD and Rob.  And I think the one player who makes this ‘wealth’ possible is Race. Holy cow - he’s like McBob in the sense you can’t keep him off the floor, but he’s a much better player.  And we’ll have him for 2.5 more years.

minus a half or so of uninspiring play, I’m  not sure I could’ve asked for more 4 games into the season. 

 

Won't ever underestimate the importance of getting Romeo. It was Archie's most important recruit for years. However to your point on our depth I think Archie was hamstrung the first 2 years with roster/APR concerns,etc....and we are just now seeing how he wants to construct a team and a roster. The depth is great and only going to get better. I love seeing our team now and adding Leal, Galloway, Geronimo and maybe Garcia?? We'll be legit 10 deep of good and honestly great players.

Exciting times for sure. We'll probably have an aggravating loss or two in December but the foundation is full of talent. I can take a loss or two when I know the program is getting it's foundation established.

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On 9/27/2019 at 3:29 PM, IU Scott said:

The problem is that more and more kids think they will be able to make it to the NBA and will leave their college team in a hear beat if they don't think they are developing fast enough for the NBA or pro ball.  These kids are fed a bogus line that they can be pro players when the majority of them will never play after college but in their minds they are pro players.

While I think there's some merit to this statement, I'll add that if I'm a kid...a competitive kid, and I'm either a boarder line or not-at-all pro prospect scholarship player, I'm not going to squander what little time I have in college athletics languishing on the end of a major college school's bench and having "practices be my games."

I'll go to a school where I can play in competitive games, be it D1, 2, 3 or NAIA. That's just me...

Sometimes it isn't all about playing in the NBA.

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Picking up where someone else left off above, i’m In the camp that sees real depth on this team, based on anticipated health and guys who can contribute across the floor. 

Last season’s team was very good and absolutely would’ve gone dancing had it not gone through that ridiculous slate of injuries to key players.

But it wasn’t deep. Who did we have, that we thought at any point could allow IU to play big? Rob, at point, was a frosh (and of course had the lengthy concussion protocol). Morgan was fantastic but obviously undersized for the role he had to play specifically because of a lack of depth / size up front. Green is a really good player, but really not a 1. And so on. 

So I also could be wrong - it would be the first time (😁), but I see what I think of as growing depth. We’re not a veteran deep team across the floor, but looks like we’re getting there. 

Brunk, to go with Davis gives us size and experience we did not have before. That’s better depth, from guys who clearly will play, assuming health. 

TJD is a player. He’s a frosh, he’s going to be outplayed in some conf games, but not on talent and effort, on experience. He is really, really good, and will obviously play heavy minutes giving us more depth in the front court, with added scoring and rebounding. He takes the spot Morgan would’ve played more with more depth / size around him. 

The questions I see are still on the wing. Hunter is outstanding, he’s already shown his ability to spread the floor and get to the rim, and defend the wing, but he’s really a frosh on experience and it’s going to continue to take him time to get back to the level of game, timing, game speed, confidence, that he was at at the start of last season.

Demez has shown his outside shot and improved understanding / college game speed understanding, he looks to be settling in well and his ability to play good minutes giving us more outside shooting is a big part of what I think of as depth, but it’s still early and the conference is of course much higher competition. I think he’s getting there, I think he will be part of our wing / outside depth.

Smith has taken a major step forward in his offensive game. He can play in a big or small lineup, he can play from the perimeter - not to rehash that discussion but not as a wing / outside scorer but as m mobile, passing and rolling forward. His passing and movement, including off ball, is much better than last year. 

Race is going to play good minutes at the 4, that’s depth we lacked. He is a guy you want in a dark alley with you. I have no concerns about his ability to contribute in Confernce games. He makes us better regardless if he scores. 

Now across guards, Franklin is a frosh but he’s getting a ton of experience right now and is holding his own well, on ball. Anyone think he’s going to disappear come conference play? I sure don’t. Al’s game has taken a big step forward too, matching Smith’s, and so now we’re looking at good minutes / contribution from Al, Rob, Green, and Franklin. 

Of course injuries can screw this all up, and I have concerns about the amount of injury time Rob is already dealing with, but Green is back on the floor and assuming Rob gets fully healthy soon that’s a strong group of guards, with the ability to play on or off ball. 

So yeah, I think we’re growing real depth here 

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I think we're also developing an identity as a program, and to define it in one word, that identity is "hard". As was said above, Race is a guy you'd take into a dark alley. Brunk isn't far behind in that regard. Get him in the right mindset, De'Ron meets that description too. Rob and Armaan both seem like extremely no-nonsense types. Devonte is the silent assassin.

By default, that leaves Al, Justin and TJD as the "flashy" ones. They can play with a little flair, but if those three are your flashy players, you've got a pretty no-nonsense roster.

(Note: Hunter is a TBD. Still feeling him out.)

This isn't to say this a brawling, mid 90s NBA type of team. They can play with finesse. But mentally, we've got guys that aren't going to crack.

 

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Here is something I have noticed so far this year.

We can continue to throw fresh bodies at opponents and sometimes wear them out and wind them.

That makes them a step slow and they start reaching on defense, thereby fouling.

I think this team can foul some guys out this year, and that cannot be anything but good.

We will need to hit free throws at a high rate.

Mind you, with the competition level so far this year it is hard to tell, but this could be a legitimate strategy moving forward!

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On 9/27/2019 at 11:15 PM, IU Scott said:

I don't blame them but most of them have no shot of playing past college and who I was talking about.  A lot of these kids are sold the idea that they will make pro ball so they decide to transfer and not work on your game and earn the playing time.

There is a huge difference between playing pro ball and the NBA. Many can play overseas make more money that most coming out of college and fall back on a great degree and a giant network of people willing to find a spot for a former IU basketball player. 

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