Jump to content

Indiana State Game Thread

CauseThatsMyDJ

Recommended Posts

JerseyHoosier

JerseyHoosier

Posted
Posted

Btw, I don't buy the talent argument. There is plenty of talent on this team. Whatever the issue is, it seems likely it stems from a failure to adjust to the new coaching. Miller coached his players just fine at Dayton. The veterans on this team (and there some talented upper classman) are ultimately responsible for making this transition happen and leading this team. Doesn't sound like that happened tonight. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 395
  • Created
  • Last Reply
ADegenerate

ADegenerate

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Yes I do and have watched many games tonight and I am watching UCLA/Georgia tech right now.  Dude it is a basketball game so it is something you should not get so upset about.  I am 47 and when I was younger I would let the outcome of IU games effect me but the older I get the less it bothers me.

 

I’m sorry but I refuse to accept a losing system for another 25 years. Get better players. Simple as that. I’ve been patient enough. Iu fan base deserves results. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Feathery

Feathery

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

Didn't get a chance to watch or listen to it, but some thoughts based on comments here and box score:

  1. We've heard the last few years from people on the board that a great coach could beat you with his team, trade players, and then beat you with your team.  No, we don't have tons of talent, but we have more talent than ISU.  Not a great start.
  2. We've also heard that another trait of a great coach is being able to coach to your team's talents.  If you don't have a lot of shooters, run plays to get guys to the basket, or get your post touches, or get out in transition.  It doesn't appear that our guys were put in good positions to take advantage of their skills and minimize their faults.
  3. Miller has had 8 months with this team.  There is no excuse for this game to be so bad.  Very poorly coached leading up to the game.
  4. No positives to take from tonight, but perhaps most importantly, this was a pawn getting captured.  It wasn't checkmate.  Miller still has plenty of time left to make a comeback from this.  It is possible to call this game what it was...an embarrassment...but still feel that Miller can be the right guy for the job.

#2. We were going inside. Davis had 10 of our first 25 points and got into stupid foul trouble. We got 33 FT attempts because we were attacking the rim. We actually made more than ISU attempted. 

There are two huge issues with this team and Archie has to figure it out. 

1. Lack of confidence. It showed in execution and in shooting. 

2. Who is going to fight and have Archie's back. Al Durham looks like a guy who is that type. I'd expect him to start and until some of the veteran guys can not only produce in both  practice AND games. You can't have such a nonchalant attitude on the court. The lackadaisical approach has carried over from last year. You can't win with guys like that, bench them until it improves. 

More musings:

With Hartman out, we do not have quality shooters. This team HAS to be a lunch pail, grind it out team. The problem is, we have a core group of mentally soft players.  

It will be a long year, imo. I will still watch and actually believe Archie is the guy. Just like at Dayton, it took him until year 3 to get it going. Depending on recruiting, it might be the same here. 

As for ISU, good job by them. They also beat Illinois in a scrimmage. The UI board was in meltdown about it. I was worried about this game after I heard about that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BGleas

BGleas

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, JerseyHoosier said:

Btw, I don't buy the talent argument. There is plenty of talent on this team. Whatever the issue is, it seems likely it stems from a failure to adjust to the new coaching. Miller coached his players just fine at Dayton. The veterans on this team (and there some talented upper classman) are ultimately responsible for making this transition happen and leading this team. Doesn't sound like that happened tonight. 

Why don’t you buy the talent argument? Tell me, who on this team is a great shooter? Who is a great rebounder? Who is a great ball handler? Who is good at getting a bucket on his own when you need one? Who on this team is exceptional at taking his man off the dribble? Who is a good leader? 

I don’t see anyone on this team that stand out at any of the above. It’s a bunch of guys that are decent at several of those thing, but nobody that is exceptional at any of them. 

This team was 18-16 last year, lost their three best players, and didn’t add anyone of particular note. Crean’s recruiting had fallen off big time the last few years. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
NCHoosier32

NCHoosier32

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Why don’t you buy the talent argument? Tell me, who on this team is a great shooter? Who is a great rebounder? Who is a great ball handler? Who is good at getting a bucket on his own when you need one? Who on this team is exceptional at taking his man off the dribble? Who is a good leader? 

I don’t see anyone on this team that stand out at any of the above. It’s a bunch of guys that are decent at several of those thing, but nobody that is exceptional at any of them. 

This team was 18-16 last year, lost their three best players, and didn’t add anyone of particular note. Crean’s recruiting had fallen off big time the last few years. 

unfortunately this is what i've been saying.  we were a completely unproven group going into the season.  lost 3 players to the NBA (kind of).  there is a reason that no one other than IU fans were predicting IU any higher than 7th in the conference.  doesn't mean Archie won't make us better and you would think we'll start getting more talent, but we need Langford or Garland!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
StLHoosier

StLHoosier

Posted
Posted

I thought Archie’s post game presser was spot on.  He didn’t sugar coat anything, and you can tell he’s not impressed with the makeup of his team.  He even called out the team for being mentally soft, which I found refreshing.  We do not have any shooters besides Hartman, and it really showed tonight.  Some of them are streaky, yes, but not great jump shooters.  We are also VERY thin in the front court, and it showed tonight when Davis got into foul trouble.  It’s going to be a long year, and there are going to be some bumps in the road.  I don’t think we’re nearly as bad as we played last night, but I think some people were being overly optimistic with their expectations of this team.  Let Archie get his guys in his system, and then let’s judge him.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Seeking6

Seeking6

Posted
Posted

After I stepped away from the ledge I found myself asking this question. Did Crean really mask the softness of this team with phenomenal offensive players? I know we lost JB, TB, and OG to NBA but wow?

I guess we needed to be remind that this is going to be a transition year. Good times and bad. I will say this. I don't care who the coach or the players are. I never want to see Assembly Hall look or act like that again. Just glad it wasn't on tv.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted

Probably worth pointing out ISU had 39 more points from three point range in a game we lost by 21. Some of those were open shots do to good offense or bad defense, but they hit some really tough shots. 

We were pretty sloppy all around, but the game really boiled down to they hit a bunch of shots and we didn't. We dominated them inside, they only out rebounded us because of the difference in shooting percentages, we shot more free throws than they attempted.

I'm not trying to be overly simplistic, but it seems like many of you are being overly panicked about one really bad, awful, no good game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Seeking6

Seeking6

Posted
Posted

Just in case we need to identify ourselves. I for one I can be outraged and pissed off with what I see during a game ( like last night) but hopefully that doesn't put me in some message board type case. I think all of us know it's going to take at least 1 full recruiting cycle if not 2 for Archie to get his kids/system in place. 

Maybe our actions/reactions during a game are short but most of us know this process for Archie is long. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hoosiermd

hoosiermd

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Why don’t you buy the talent argument? Tell me, who on this team is a great shooter? Who is a great rebounder? Who is a great ball handler? Who is good at getting a bucket on his own when you need one? Who on this team is exceptional at taking his man off the dribble? Who is a good leader? 

I don’t see anyone on this team that stand out at any of the above. It’s a bunch of guys that are decent at several of those thing, but nobody that is exceptional at any of them. 

This team was 18-16 last year, lost their three best players, and didn’t add anyone of particular note. Crean’s recruiting had fallen off big time the last few years. 

In regards to the talent argument. Here is how I'm seeing it. If you look at the Rivals Top-150 recruits you'll see the following on this team:

2017: Justin Smith-4*, Clifton Moore-4*
2016: De'Ron Davis-4*, Curtis Jones-4*
2015: Juwan Morgan-3*
2014: Robert Johnson-4*
2013: Josh Newkirk-3*

Not listed is Devonte Green-3* who wasn't in the Rivals Top-150 for 2016, but who is generally highly regarded on this board. From this perspective, Indiana has 7 kids that were ranked in the top-150 in their class and you can throw in Green who could make an argument that maybe he should have been. Also Hartman was a 3* kid in the 2013 class. I know he didn't play, but if you add him to the mix with Green and the other 7 then you can at least make an argument that Indiana has 9 kids who you could say are talented. Are they as talented as Duke? Of course not. Are they as talented as Kansas? No. Are they as talented as Indiana State who boasts of no kids in the top-150? 

My question isn't about talent per se, but I was wondering how do you (or anyone else that wants to chime in) see this if you go about recruiting? I'm guessing if you get 5* talent you know you are getting something uber-athletic that is super twitched up with some basketball ability. But when you reach down into the top-150 but are dealing with 3*-4* guys, do you think that Crean was simply picking the wrong guys and that these guys weren't talented to begin with? Do you think within those rankings, you have to look for a 3*-4* that might not rank as high, but IS EXCELLENT at a particular skill level, i.e., shooting, rebounding, defense? 

From a talent perspective, it does seem like Indiana should beat Indiana St. especially at home. They certainly shouldn't lose by 21pts & give up 90. But are you saying the talent is a composite of all the WRONG talent? 

I know Crean was highly criticized because of roster construction especially late in his tenure. Do you think last night is more of a microcosm of that roster construction finally coming home to roost?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cohete15

cohete15

Posted
Posted

I want to ask one question first... 

Why is it, that when we are screened on defense, it’s like we run in to a brick wall 9 feet wide. But when we screen on offense, the defender seems to just slip right by? 

The negative(s): lack of fight, grit, leadership, poor shooting performance

The positives: I thought we played some tough defense. There were breakdowns, but we took them to under 5 on the shot clock multiple times...they just hit 3s like every time. We fed the post really well for the first time in 9 years. We actually utilized the “roll” of the pick and roll...we just bricked a lot of the open shots off that roll. 

Ultimately, in my opinion, Mike Tyson punched us in the face with the 3-fest ISU put on in the first 10 minutes. And each time it looked like we were about to get up, Iron Mike punched us again. IMO, it was more of ISU playing out of their mind than it was us being bad. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cohete15

cohete15

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, hoosiermd said:

 But are you saying the talent is a composite of all the WRONG talent? 

I know Crean was highly criticized because of roster construction especially late in his tenure. Do you think last night is more of a microcosm of that roster construction finally coming home to roost?

As Archie said in his presser, we have a bunch of players unsure of themselves. That’s what I saw too. We have a team not used to playing an organized style of basketball, and clearly are struggling to learn it. 

Our roster, with the exception of Deron, is made up of potential guys. Curtis, Devante, Newkirk, Johnson, Morgan. These are Will Sheehey guys. Good for off the bench, in spurts, give the team a spark. None of them are good enough to lead a team. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
5fouls

5fouls

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Probably worth pointing out ISU had 39 more points from three point range in a game we lost by 21. Some of those were open shots do to good offense or bad defense, but they hit some really tough shots. 

We were pretty sloppy all around, but the game really boiled down to they hit a bunch of shots and we didn't. We dominated them inside, they only out rebounded us because of the difference in shooting percentages, we shot more free throws than they attempted.

I'm not trying to be overly simplistic, but it seems like many of you are being overly panicked about one really bad, awful, no good game. 

Yeah. But, ISU wasn't going to miss ALL of their 3 pointers.  So, assume they just shot a reasonable percentage instead of a ridiculous one, they still probably win, or at the least make it a dog-fight.  That is still a less than comforting result.  This team has an overall lack of heart, likely because their 'leaders' have none. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
5fouls

5fouls

Posted
Posted

One thing I noticed in Archie's presser.  He was asked about Collin, basically said he felt sorry for him, and really couldn't give a good answer on when he would be back.  But, one thing he didn't say, that I kind of expected was something along the lines that "we missed his leadership tonight".  I'm not saying he would have made that statement as an excuse.  Rather to make a point to the rest of the team, especially the younger guys, to approach things the way Collin does.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
rico

rico

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

SIAP

IU lost it's first season opener since1997, and it's first home opener since 1984. Miller became the first IU coach to lose his opening game since Everett Dean in 1924.

I remember that opener in '83-84 quite well.  I was in disbelief.  We get beat at home by Miami(OH)?  Geez, my world was all out of kilter!!!!!!  But at the end of the year.....we were pretty dang good.  And FWIW, that year the Redskins turned out to be pretty dang good themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
KoB2011

KoB2011

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Yeah. But, ISU wasn't going to miss ALL of their 3 pointers.  So, assume they just shot a reasonable percentage instead of a ridiculous one, they still probably win, or at the least make it a dog-fight.  That is still a less than comforting result.  This team has an overall lack of heart, likely because their 'leaders' have none. 

So let's say they hit 10 threes instead of 17, making them shoot 38% which is better than they shot last year.  Now we are tied.  Now let's say we shoot that same 38%, and we win by 9.  

Were there other issues?  Of course, we turned it over too much on offense.  We didn't shoot free throws as well as we should have, but we did a great job getting to the line.  My point is just to say this was a game where a team shot lights out and we had a bad shooting night, but as far as how both teams really played, taking shooting out of it, we were still probably double digits better than them.  Unfortunately, shooting makes up for a lot in basketball

Think how many times we blew teams out under Crean because we went berserk shooting? Games like Maryland, Michigan, etc.  We weren't 20 and 30 points better than those teams, we just had a crazy night, it happens.  With how the game has changed, you're going to see more upsets and even big upsets when a talented, tough team like ISU has a hot night.  Duke has lost tournament games to 15 seeds because of similar things, it's just the reality of how basketball has changed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


×
×
  • Create New...