Michigan State Postgame Thread

[WestCoastOffense]

MSU was seriously concerned about losing to IU because, in fact, they almost did. 

Fact.

 

[BobSaccamanno]

Penix was a huge story.  Can’t gloss over the fact that he proved himself in all aspects as a freshman on the road against a top defense. He’s going to be on NFL radar for the future after this.  He really proved a lot. 

[5fouls]

40 minutes ago, MSHoosier said:

Northwestern has a coach that can get his team to play the same type of controlled offense and defense as does Michigan State. No I don't see that as a win. Rutgers I feel good about. Not Maryland and I'll believe beating Purdue when I see it. 

Northwestern is at home.  MSU was on the road.  

[rico]

Did I miss anything?  Good game, file it, get ready for the next one.

[Artesian_86]

Well said Rico!!! Next.....

[Andy06]

51 minutes ago, MSHoosier said:

Northwestern has a coach that can get his team to play the same type of controlled offense and defense as does Michigan State. No I don't see that as a win. Rutgers I feel good about. Not Maryland and I'll believe beating Purdue when I see it. 

There is only one game left that is a near guarantee loss,  and that is @Penn St.

rutger is terrible.  Maryland hasn't accomplished anything and appears to have been figured out.  Northwestern has seriously struggled.  Nebraska isn't good.  Michigan has been unimpressive.   Purdue is 1-3 and in a death spiral.

[IUDan93]

Sick of losing these games because I know how awesome it would feel to win.  That said, if Penix is everything we saw today and, if he is able to stay healthy, I think we are going to enjoy the next 3-4 years of football.  Also, having a quarterback like the one we saw today will surely help with recruiting.

[Leathernecks]

15 minutes ago, rico said:

Did I miss anything?  Good game, file it, get ready for the next one.

The worst part is that we don't play a meaningful game for 3 weeks.  That's of course assuming we take care of Rutgers who might be worse than UCONN.

Then we have 3 straight winnable games after Rutgers.  I think being bowl eligible by the time we go to PSU being a very realistic goal.

[rico]

11 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

The worst part is that we don't play a meaningful game for 3 weeks.  That's of course assuming we take care of Rutgers who might be worse than UCONN.

Then we have 3 straight winnable games after Rutgers.  I think being bowl eligible by the time we go to PSU being a very realistic goal.

I would love to win the next three and head to Happy Valley...we shall see.  1 at a time.

[IU Scott]

I had to listen to the last 13 minutes of the game because I was going to my 30th HS reunion.  My question was the holding penalty when we forced the fumble a legit call or not.  I got to the reunion and the game was on and go to at least see are game tying TD but of course saw our D give it right back up.  It just seems like we always have a questionable call or two when we are playing well against one of the top BIG10 teams.  Also had to know that the punt return would have a penalty called on it but was none called on the MSU big return.

[coachv]

4 hours ago, MSHoosier said:

Sorry,   but i'm afraid I don't share the optimism. That's  0 - 12 versus ranked teams.  When the game was there to be one  (third and two in their own side of the field in the fourth quarter, for example) they would not make the plays to win.  This is going on three years and nothing is different.  He was supposed to be a defensive coach, but the defense can't stop even Michigan State, which will never have a great offense, in year three. He's had the three best recruiting classes in program history but will struggle to make a bowl game (frankly I don't see it) and will not have a signature win against a ranked team. Again, I apologize, I never post on the football page and thus feel bad for venting, but I'm tired.

we have all been there, frustrated with the never ending close calls. a silver lining...70% of the roster are freshmen and sophomores 

[coachv]

would like to see penix running the ball more. a lot more. and where is cole gest? he was #2 on the depth chart to start the season. dog house or just passed up? and what the hell has happened to westbrook?

[Stlboiler23]

6 minutes ago, coachv said:

would like to see penis running the ball more. a lot more. and where is cole gest? he was #2 on the depth chart to start the season. dog house or just passed up? and what the hell has happened to westbrook?

Who doesn’t want more penis running?

[Indykev]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I had to listen to the last 13 minutes of the game because I was going to my 30th HS reunion.  My question was the holding penalty when we forced the fumble a legit call or not.  I got to the reunion and the game was on and go to at least see are game tying TD but of course saw our D give it right back up.  It just seems like we always have a questionable call or two when we are playing well against one of the top BIG10 teams.  Also had to know that the punt return would have a penalty called on it but was none called on the MSU big return.

The holding call was legit. Our freshman DB holding their best Senior receiver.

[Seeking6]

Certainly improving but in results world it just isn't good enough anymore.....and I believe that Allen understands that too. Our staff failed the kids a couple of times today with conservative play calling or opting to run the ball when Penix was flipping it at will.

7 games to go to get 3 more wins. I feel much better about happening as long as Penix is playing.

[iu2win]

I thought going into this game IU fans would finally get a good idea where this team stacks up in terms of potential wins the rest of the season.  I did not expect a W but was hopeful IU would be competitive.  It turns out IU was more than competitive; IU could have and should have won the game.  Like so many others, I'm disappointed in the loss particularly knowing one stop (either just before the half or on their final drive) would have sealed the deal.  However, overall I think getting Penix back and seeing what he was able to do gives great hope for the remainder of the season.  Watching Coach Allen get into Wommack on the sideline gives me hope we might see a better D moving forward; combine that with MP getting more game time and IU could finally wrap up a bowl bid prior to Bucket game.  How any IU fan could see that as anything other than progress is beyond me.  Still, that has yet to happen and it is up the the team to FINISH !!!

[5 championships]

Tough loss but 3rd youngest team in BIG. Will be fine and I’m pretty confident will be in a bowl

[IU878176]

1 minute ago, 5 championships said:

Tough loss but 3rd youngest team in BIG. Will be fine and I’m pretty confident will be in a bowl

It’s probaly my poor memory but it seems to me that we have been considered a young team something like 7 of the last 8 years :).

Pre-season I picked us to go 5-7 but am now with you in that I feel a bit confident about making a bowl. The Rutgers game, is huge. Win and a bowl is in our sights but losing (which I don’t expect) would derail yet another season.

[5 championships]

36 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

It’s probaly my poor memory but it seems to me that we have been considered a young team something like 7 of the last 8 years :).

Pre-season I picked us to go 5-7 but am now with you in that I feel a bit confident about making a bowl. The Rutgers game, is huge. Win and a bowl is in our sights but losing (which I don’t expect) would derail yet another season.

Penix is a freshmen. Going to be exciting next few years If he can stay healthy. He might be the center piece to turn the program around. 

[milehiiu]

 Tom Allen - Michigan State - 9/28/19

[jblaz13]

It isn't EACTLY at the mid-season mark, but -

Been a bit of movement between teams since the first game . Purdue and Penn State took dramatic swings from my original premise, so I adjusted  them. It does not alter my 9-3 guess.  I can still see it as of now.

Games played: 

Ball State - W  

Eastern Illinois - W  . 

Ohio State  - L  

UConn - W 

Michigan State L  (IU lost) Michigan State played a lot of press coverage and despite knowing IU would pass often didn't look like there was a whole lot they could do about it  for large portions of yesterday's game. JMO. That is aside of the fact that Indiana  left at least 2TDs on the field that could have been had rather easily. Michigan State was hailed as the real test. Still see enough to think 9 wins can be done on the year.

 I(felt and once again) feel we are about to see one of the better stretches of IU Football in recent memory, and have been essentially counting on it on my guess for the year's record. Other than Penn State, the rest of IU's schedule hasn't done anything to warrant picking against5 the Hoosiers. 

 

As a team, at this juncture overall,  the offense has been sharper than I thought it would be , despite far less production from the run game than I desired and guessed..Penix blew me away with his performance yesterday for coming off an injury that led to him missing. The O-line played better in such a demnding game without it's best player and leader in Cronk than I thought it might going in. They still missed some blocks on what seemed to be IU's most crucial drives. Bedford and Jones - the two biggest question marks had ups and downs but did enough for long enough to call it a solid outing after starting slow and tapering off late..  Their penalties were very ill-timed as with the return game penalties.  The defense has been both great and messy at times. A lot to work on , but a lot of ceiling left for them with emerging stars and playmakers abound. Biggest area to me , is their need to  finish plays better. That goes for both tackling and securing what have appeared to be near sure TOs on more than one occasion, but I have actually saw some life . Pass rush seems spotty but looked improved yesterday. Tackling need a lot of work. Coverage was really solid , but young players like Mullen need work on mental focus. Freshman mistakes but was also super impressive, especially when I checked out the replay.. Ball has been a bummer and I held high hopes for him out of the gates..The Special teams are close to where I thought they'd be. Kicking game good. Kicking coverage spotty, yet better than last year. Night and day better kick and punt protection resulting in less being blocked. Punt returns slightly worse without J-Shun Harris.  Special Teams had nowhere to go but up and they have went quite far up in that context.. They were not very sharp yesterday at all. Just a lot better overall than a year ago.   Most under-utilized players on the team per their abilities IMO are Hendershot and Taylor . Scott being not far behind them although his load has increased.  Teams have done well executing a counter and have been keying on him. 

 

Rutgers - W      Need I even explain why.....Need anyone? 

Maryland - W   They are in a bit of a tailspin. After last season I thought this start wasn't fools gold. I might be wrong now. Despite the tendency for B1G teams to reverse course and find their groove against Indiana , I don't see them solving their defensive issues so easily. Playing a  team with the ability to spread the ball around and get production they are going to be hard pressed to keep Indiana in front of them.  Now their offense is having issues as well. Indiana's defense gives them a good chance at home, but a bye and closest thing to an in-conference tune up game, up are fairly ideal going into more of a toss- up away game. 

Nebraska - W   Over-rated!!!!! Clap, clap,  clap-clap-clap  Over-rated!!!  What have they done to suggest they're better than IU . Their defense sucks IMO.   Illinois who I don't feel is very good, exposed them last weekend. I will leave it there but we can go further if anyone wants to debate it out . Just don't see the need if we go eye test with it too. Stat sheets alone are adequate enough basis not to flinch on this prediction  as of right now.

[[[[[[[[ When it was announced that Michael Penix would indeed start, my mind went right to this stretch trying to point to when I thought he might start returning close to full form. His play yesterday blew me away for that reason. .]]]]]]] From here I think he takes it to another level with a higher degree of both familkiarity and team cohesion. 

Northwestern - W   Their(NU's) offense is totally suspect . IU's is not. Their defense doesn't make up that difference enough to think anything other than Indiana being too much to handle. One too many weapons this time around, even if Northwestern plays well.  IU looked good enough in the trenches against a better Spartan unit to reinforce my confidence that they can go toe -to-toe with NU all game and control play. Penix should be rolling.  Even Ramsey would give them a good chance vs the Cats so this one wouldn't change no matter who is at QB for IU. Homefield is what I also think the difference maker would be even under Ramsey. 

Penn State- L   Originally had Penn State as a win. Now I'm flipping them to a loss.  A smooth QB transition kind of blows up the basis for originally predicting the Hoosiers to come out with the W.  Happy Valley is tough when they are playing good football. They are playing some really good football.  Could be wrong .but they seem legit . 

Michigan- W I'm not sure what to make of them .Beating the brakes off Rutgers 52-0 yesterday,  didn't undo how vulnerable they seem to be. Rutgers beating IU would be the only thing that could swing me if all stays on the current trajectory for Michigan..They seem behind where many assumed by this point. I didn't .They have been dead in the water twice and IU let them slip away at home. This time it won't happen . At least not as far as I guess. lol 

Purdue-  W  The team I felt Indiana matched up the worst with on paper going into the year aside of Sparty.  Now they look to be at a clear disadvantage against IU home field, rivalry game ,and all. Moore and Sindelar are such huge losses. Despite the late rally yesterday and a few emerging stars, they just don;t look to be in a great place compared to where they sat yesterday morning..They may keep it close but 60 minutes is a long time for a team that just took a huge hit to it's proven available talent. 

 

[IU Scott]

41 minutes ago, jblaz13 said:

It isn't EACTLY at the mid-season mark, but -

Been a bit of movement between teams since the first game . Purdue and Penn State took dramatic swings from my original premise, so I adjusted  them. It does not alter my 9-3 guess.  I can still see it as of now.

Games played: 

Ball State - W  

Eastern Illinois - W  . 

Ohio State  - L  

UConn - W 

Michigan State L  (IU lost) Michigan State played a lot of press coverage and despite knowing IU would pass often didn't look like there was a whole lot they could do about it  for large portions of yesterday's game. JMO. That is aside of the fact that Indiana  left at least 2TDs on the field that could have been had rather easily. Michigan State was hailed as the real test. Still see enough to think 9 wins can be done on the year.

 I(felt and once again) feel we are about to see one of the better stretches of IU Football in recent memory, and have been essentially counting on it on my guess for the year's record. Other than Penn State, the rest of IU's schedule hasn't done anything to warrant picking against5 the Hoosiers. 

 

As a team, at this juncture overall,  the offense has been sharper than I thought it would be , despite far less production from the run game than I desired and guessed..Penix blew me away with his performance yesterday for coming off an injury that led to him missing. The O-line played better in such a demnding game without it's best player and leader in Cronk than I thought it might going in. They still missed some blocks on what seemed to be IU's most crucial drives. Bedford and Jones - the two biggest question marks had ups and downs but did enough for long enough to call it a solid outing after starting slow and tapering off late..  Their penalties were very ill-timed as with the return game penalties.  The defense has been both great and messy at times. A lot to work on , but a lot of ceiling left for them with emerging stars and playmakers abound. Biggest area to me , is their need to  finish plays better. That goes for both tackling and securing what have appeared to be near sure TOs on more than one occasion, but I have actually saw some life . Pass rush seems spotty but looked improved yesterday. Tackling need a lot of work. Coverage was really solid , but young players like Mullen need work on mental focus. Freshman mistakes but was also super impressive, especially when I checked out the replay.. Ball has been a bummer and I held high hopes for him out of the gates..The Special teams are close to where I thought they'd be. Kicking game good. Kicking coverage spotty, yet better than last year. Night and day better kick and punt protection resulting in less being blocked. Punt returns slightly worse without J-Shun Harris.  Special Teams had nowhere to go but up and they have went quite far up in that context.. They were not very sharp yesterday at all. Just a lot better overall than a year ago.   Most under-utilized players on the team per their abilities IMO are Hendershot and Taylor . Scott being not far behind them although his load has increased.  Teams have done well executing a counter and have been keying on him. 

 

Rutgers - W      Need I even explain why.....Need anyone? 

Maryland - W   They are in a bit of a tailspin. After last season I thought this start wasn't fools gold. I might be wrong now. Despite the tendency for B1G teams to reverse course and find their groove against Indiana , I don't see them solving their defensive issues so easily. Playing a  team with the ability to spread the ball around and get production they are going to be hard pressed to keep Indiana in front of them.  Now their offense is having issues as well. Indiana's defense gives them a good chance at home, but a bye and closest thing to an in-conference tune up game, up are fairly ideal going into more of a toss- up away game. 

Nebraska - W   Over-rated!!!!! Clap, clap,  clap-clap-clap  Over-rated!!!  What have they done to suggest they're better than IU . Their defense sucks IMO.   Illinois who I don't feel is very good, exposed them last weekend. I will leave it there but we can go further if anyone wants to debate it out . Just don't see the need if we go eye test with it too. Stat sheets alone are adequate enough basis not to flinch on this prediction  as of right now.

[[[[[[[[ When it was announced that Michael Penix would indeed start, my mind went right to this stretch trying to point to when I thought he might start returning close to full form. His play yesterday blew me away for that reason. .]]]]]]] From here I think he takes it to another level with a higher degree of both familkiarity and team cohesion. 

Northwestern - W   Their(NU's) offense is totally suspect . IU's is not. Their defense doesn't make up that difference enough to think anything other than Indiana being too much to handle. One too many weapons this time around, even if Northwestern plays well.  IU looked good enough in the trenches against a better Spartan unit to reinforce my confidence that they can go toe -to-toe with NU all game and control play. Penix should be rolling.  Even Ramsey would give them a good chance vs the Cats so this one wouldn't change no matter who is at QB for IU. Homefield is what I also think the difference maker would be even under Ramsey. 

Penn State- L   Originally had Penn State as a win. Now I'm flipping them to a loss.  A smooth QB transition kind of blows up the basis for originally predicting the Hoosiers to come out with the W.  Happy Valley is tough when they are playing good football. They are playing some really good football.  Could be wrong .but they seem legit . 

Michigan- W I'm not sure what to make of them .Beating the brakes off Rutgers 52-0 yesterday,  didn't undo how vulnerable they seem to be. Rutgers beating IU would be the only thing that could swing me if all stays on the current trajectory for Michigan..They seem behind where many assumed by this point. I didn't .They have been dead in the water twice and IU let them slip away at home. This time it won't happen . At least not as far as I guess. lol 

Purdue-  W  The team I felt Indiana matched up the worst with on paper going into the year aside of Sparty.  Now they look to be at a clear disadvantage against IU home field, rivalry game ,and all. Moore and Sindelar are such huge losses. Despite the late rally yesterday and a few emerging stars, they just don;t look to be in a great place compared to where they sat yesterday morning..They may keep it close but 60 minutes is a long time for a team that just took a huge hit to it's proven available talent. 

 

No way we will only lose one more game and I see sure losses to PSU, UM and we probably won't win at Neb.

[jblaz13]

16 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

No way we will only lose one more game and I see sure losses to PSU, UM and we probably won't win at Neb.

I could agree with you.  I was on the fence about Michigan all summer..

No reason to be about Nebraska, aside of the # of stars their recruits got ,,Not enough for me until they shut down at least one good B1G offense..

Neither convince me they can defend an explosive attack led by a dynamic QB -  better than Indiana can, even if Indiana isn't exactly great or good  at it .  It should be 2 strength against strength games scoring wise. I give IU the edge on the other side due to experience being just enough to offset the talent of each.Could swing but I usually don;t revise after mid season so prepared to go down with my ship .Lol 

I do see and understand where you're coming from as far as Indiana's deficiencies , but the results at QB are still tip of the iceberg. I believe that to be true even for this year so long as he plays. We have saw fairly good offense, but we haven't saw peak offense with enough games to really gel all the way . Scott shaking off his modest performances comes to mind .We have saw extended flashes of  it (potential)with the passing game . and with Stevie really going off.-.that seems almost inevitable at some point - since good players bounce back from a rough stretch.  Everyone is looking primarily to shutting him down because the rest has been so unsettled going into OSU and MSU. The more the passing game shows the less they can key in on Scott. 

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, jblaz13 said:

I could agree with you.  I was on the fence about Michigan all summer..

No reason to be about Nebraska, aside of the # of stars their recruits got ,,Not enough for me until they shut down at least one good B1G offense..

Neither convince me they can defend an explosive attack led by a dynamic QB -  better than Indiana can, even if Indiana isn't exactly great or good  at it .  It should be 2 strength against strength games scoring wise. I give IU the edge on the other side due to experience being just enough to offset the talent of each.Could swing but I usually don;t revise after mid season so prepared to go down with my ship .Lol 

I do see and understand where you're coming from as far as Indiana's deficiencies , but the results at QB are still tip of the iceberg. I believe that to be true even for this year so long as he plays. We have saw fairly good offense, but we haven't saw peak offense with enough games to really gel all the way . Scott shaking off his modest performances comes to mind .We haven;t it with the passing game . and Stevie really going off. that is inevitable at some point since I feel good players bounce back from a rough stretch. The more the passing game shows the less they can key in on Scott. 

My thinking comes from watching IU football for over 40 years and until I see it with my eyes I will predict losses to UM and NEB.

[jblaz13]

15 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

My thinking comes from watching IU football for over 40 years and until I see it with my eyes I will predict losses to UM and NEB.

Touche, my friend   Fair enough for now. 

I defer to the validity of you  doubting it until you see it and your experience backing that position.

Just the drop off after Ohio State, and everyone else seems so clearly pronounced as of now. Indiana is currently the most tested and therefore most proven B1G team in league play as opposition goes -  having  faced the likely conference champion,  and the team I felt was the next closest to a sure thing to contend strongly in MSU- with solid defense and an experienced returning QB.. Recipes for disaster for this particular IU team going into the year as scheduled opponents go , IMO. 

Although Michigan CAN be that type of team by the time November rolls around ,  they aren't there defensively with their experience, right now. Take away that Rutgers game, and they are no better than Minnesota  or Northwestern-  to me..  Who is going to cover IU's receivers for them if MTSU and Army can give them fits with much less?   A couple of guys IU receivers made plays against could/should also play on Sundays at some point in the future. This game recording I've poured through all night showed a team that beat itself by dropping pick 6 , blowing an golden scoring opportunity by playing it too safe,  allowing a sudden late first half TD aided by young mistakes . Otherwise they took that game over from MSU, and although they also failed to hold or extend that 24-21 lead, they came right back again when momentum shifted.

Time ran out on them(Indiana) because of how they started this game,  executing too poorly to cushion their late advantage. And ending the game focusing too poorly to avoid a penalty on a forced fumble and covering the deep pass.  Michigan State didn't appear to leave near as much on the field that they should or could have gotten . Other than a missed FG .and a failed 4th down-  maybe one other play, there just wasn't a lot more to point that they could have done to blow the doors off IU that Indiana.  They didn't even turn it over. and most impressive of all Lewerke looked about as unsettled as I have ever saw him in his career on a couple drives where IU really brought it .Even sacked him and then almost got him again next play on one of those.

I wasn't buying the Michigan top 10 hype for one second and still don't .Not ready totally write it off but every team has to prove it every year. Not just IU. .  They might snap . It is Michigan, after all and their talent advantage is unquestionable. for the record I'm not trying to be persuasive here. I'm just doubling down on my position.As well as implying Michigan State is better than Michigan by a decent degree. ASU who they actually did lose to is also better than Michigan right now, IMHO..   I have to be fair about yesterday because while disappointing it was also equally promising and we're talking about a game where the guy with the ball in hands the most for IU played efficient and TO free against a top B1G unit in their 4th career start coming off injury-  until a last second fluke fumble.

How many times do we see that against Sparty with ANY Freshman QB?? Much less an IU QB.  That was a virtual litmus test and IU put something up the paper strip that I'm willing to hang my hat on. Flawed and all.