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Smith at the 3?


Hoosier98

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Smith is underrated, imo, because he’s been up and down, mentally. He has had some great game’s and could be headed into a strong season — but not on the wing. There are exceptions, of course, pure defensive wings that can’t shoot outside shots, but this is a team that needs outside shooting in a big way, and CAM has talked about needing to improve the outside game. 

We may be a bit crowded up front (which could be a nice change), but I think we’ll see Smith as a true forward, it’s his strength. The guy is a good 4 — with more outside shooting he should have the chance to thrive. Some baseline work — backdoor cuts would be good to see. 

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13 hours ago, Hoosier98 said:

Michigan State. You may want to brace yourself for him playing the three to start. I really think that is what coach miller is going to do. TJD is going to play the 4. Not sure if you listened at all to the media day but the offense is changing. The three point line is moving back 12 inches.if I am wrong, I will gladly admit it.

I really doubt it. I can't envision a scenario where Archie goes with three players in the lineup that can't shoot, handle and create. You'd be putting Phinisee and Green in a horrible position to have to create everything and do it with almost no spacing on the court. 

People thought the offense was bad last year, imagine Smith at the 3 with two other non-shooters in the paint while Phinisee and Green try to penetrate into a brick wall. Teams literally didn't even defend Smith last year, they just had his man stand in the paint, and now we want to give him the ball on the perimeter and ask him to shoot and create offense?!?!

I agree with HH, Smith can be a very valuable player on this team. He's been in the system 3 years, he's really athletic and when he's focused (which isn't all the time) he's the most versatile defender on the team. But, he will have to make an impressive improvement in basketball skill to be a perimeter player/wing. 

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I do think the Smith vs. TJD debate for the starting forward spot is going to be one of the more interesting things to watch as the preseason develops. It's an interesting issue. I think the majority of us are into Archie's 'get old, stay old' mantra and Smith is one of the most experienced players in the system. As mentioned above, he's also one of the most versatile defenders on the team, and we know Archie values defense. 

With all of that said, the roster also needs an infusions of size and talent, and it would be a great sign if TJD beats Smith out for that spot. The roster could really use a Burger Boy type impact from him. But, I'm also not sure how well Smith would do coming off the bench. He's not an efficient scorer and he needs time on the court to establish his defensive identity in a game. It's almost like if he's coming off the bench you'd almost rather see if Race Thompson can fill that defensive role but maybe add a little more efficient offense. 

It kind of seems like feast or famine with Smith. Either start him and play him a lot, or see what some other guys can do. 

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My thoughts at this point.

-More options this year. More balance. Chemistry has been reported as being very good.

-Smith will have to produce to get minutes. There really was no other option last season with the injuries. He was a healthy body that also offered a good amount of defensive presence.

-IU is in big time trouble if Smith is the best shooting forward type player they can come up with. Smiths strengths are at the 4.

-TJD and Hunter are super talented kids that IU critics will soon know well.

-Phinisee goes without saying. Kid is going to have a fantastic year. I predict he once again shuts Winston down.

- Green knows it’s go time. Let’s hope he don’t regress to showtime. Green is my biggest question mark leading into the season. 

-Rotations will be interesting and should create some matchup/scouting problems for others.

-Romeo and Juwann will absolutely be missed but considering all circumstances then and now, their absence won’t be as impactful as being speculated.

*That last one leaves the door open for an inferno. Time will tell but I think all things considered, it’s a fair assessment:

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Justin Smith has probably the most untapped potential.  He's obviously an athlete but you can never equate athleticism with basketball skills.  He was up and down last year, but most of the time he was down.  The few times he played well, we were @#$% tough to beat (think MSU).  That highlights how little we got from the forward position last year.  McBob, Smith, Damezi, Hunter's medical situation.  It was a nightmare.

For the style of play that I like, to me Smith just doesn't play winning basketball.  He has the ability to defend but he was far too lackadaisical at that end, and didn't seem to take responsibility.  He was late closing out on shooters and at times flat out dogged it.  On offense, he was horrific in a team ball sense.  He had no court sense and was a terrible passer.

Where he has been great is when he dives toward the bucket and gets a quick pass for a bucket.  If he wants it, he can defend at a high level.  With those attributes, he has proved he can be tough to handle on both ends.  I think we are all waiting to see how much he's improved.  There's no reason why he can't be a good player if he's improved his handle and court vision, and he's willing to play hard on defense all the time.  If he could even hit a mid range jumper with reliability, it would be a huge step forward.

My biggest complaint with Archie last year was that he talks a tough game in terms of intensity but he tolerated way too much nonsense.  We can all hope it was just because he didn't have anybody else to turn to.  But when you lose 12 out of 13 you park a guy who is not buying in on the bench until he proves otherwise.  Play a walkon, I don't care, you're losing big anyway.  At least this way, you get somebody's attention or weed out guys who are not all in.  I have seen that from the 1970s through the 1990s be a successful way to approach it.  I don't buy the theory that today's kids are so delicate that their itty bitty feelings can't take being coached.  If they can't handle it, don't play sports or definitely don't work in the real world where you get skewered if you can't produce.  I hope that approach returns this year because Archie will have options.  

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On 9/28/2019 at 10:17 PM, dgambill said:

We would really lack shooting/playmaking playing Justin at the 3. We need a scorer on the wing opposite Green. I love Justin’s defense...he can clearly defend 1-4 on the court but I’d be shocked if he is playing the 3 much at all this year. He is just too limited offensively.

you greatly under value defense, my friend

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On 9/29/2019 at 2:08 PM, dbmhoosier said:

The 3 spot is the biggest mystery.  Brunk or Deron won't surprise me at the 5 either.  I think Brunk starts.

i'll go with deron. brunk couldn't start for butler and we've seen what deron can do when he's healthy. deron is supposed to be in the best shape of his career

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On 9/29/2019 at 2:16 PM, Hoosier98 said:

That wouldn’t surprise me, because he probably has a better chance of playing more minutes due to conditioning. I think one of those two at the 5 and TJD at the 4. That is why smith or Hunter (maybe later in the season) has to be at the three. I also think people are sleeping on Thompson getting quality minutes at the 4 (10-15 based on foul trouble). 

i can't wait to see thompson play finally

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On 9/29/2019 at 4:25 PM, DWB said:

No argument here. Probably Smith & "bad Devonte" tied for most frustrating.

I actually think Hunter can start over Smith. Putting Smith on the bench might help to get his head right. I don't think Arch can afford to have a non-productive offensive player on the floor, even if his defense is good. If Hunter and Smith are equal, I'd take Hunter. At least he worked up a sweat when he played, and Smith has had 2 years to prove himself, and hasn't done so IMO. His movement without the ball is lackluster, never makes a hard cut, just kind of ½ speed trots. It's a shame too, because he's athletic, right size, and talented.

Go back and look at any game of your choice and compare the cuts Devonte makes to get open vs Smith. Not trying to be Debbie downer here, but hard for me to pick Smith over Hunter at this point, even though Hunter hasn't played a minute of D1 ball. I sure hope I'm wrong for the team's sake.

when, exactly, did you ever see hunter work up a sweat when he was on the floor?

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On 9/29/2019 at 7:28 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The game plan on Smith is to sag off him 5-7 ft and clog the lane. He should be coming off the bench and scoring on back cuts and offensive rebounds. That’s where he’s most effective right now. 

pretty hard to score on backcuts if your defender is playing 5-7 feet off you. i'm just saying

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On 9/29/2019 at 7:54 PM, DWB said:

No doubt Smith has the potential to be terrific, he just doesn't seem to want to hustle.

For those of you who doubt this, go to the IU Fan Community site and watch Coach's Corner that breaks down the first 4 minutes of the Witchita State game last year in the NIT. Watch it once with Coach breaking down the film, then watch it again and don't take your eyes off of Smith. I think you'll be surprised as to what you see.

link?

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On 9/29/2019 at 7:56 PM, BGleas said:

The problem with Smith at the 3 is that to this point in his career he has shown absolutely zero skill set to play that position. On the wing you need to be able to shoot, handle the ball, create offense, handle the ball in traffic, pass, etc. I’m not trying to bash Smith, because he can be a very valuable player on this team, it’s just that to this point nothing he’s shown points to be able to play this position.

coach miller points to smith as being one of the best defenders in the country. that's something

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On 9/29/2019 at 9:25 PM, BGleas said:

What flashes? He was a turnover machine last year that was air balling wide open 10ft jumpers. As a wing player you not only have to able to shoot, but you’re also a guy that is coming off ball screens and having to create and make decisions with the ball in your hands. Smith really has shown no ability to do any of that. 

He’s a guy you want setting ball screens and rolling to the rim, not handling the ball and having to shoot, pass or penetrate off the dribble. 

i remember him hitting a couple 10' turn around jumpers on the baseline. granted, a small sample, but no one else on the team had that shot. i have hopes for him

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7 hours ago, coachv said:

coach miller points to smith as being one of the best defenders in the country. that's something

I think you might be Mr Smith. You comment anytime there is criticism of Justin and bash anyone that thinks Hunter might be special.  Some of us have seen things first hand to tell us JH is going to very good 

 

Mr. Smith I really like you son and think he could be an all conference player, just let.him play😉 I just playing

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7 hours ago, coachv said:

i remember him hitting a couple 10' turn around jumpers on the baseline. granted, a small sample, but no one else on the team had that shot. i have hopes for him

He literally air balled two completely wide open baseline jumpers down the stretch last season.

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7 hours ago, coachv said:

coach miller points to smith as being one of the best defenders in the country. that's something

Smith is a really good, versatile on-ball defender. Maybe our best when his focus is there. But quite often his focus isn’t there, and also once his man gives up the ball or he’s off the ball he often relaxes, gets out of position and loses his man. If he can embrace the role of the teams defensive leader and raise his consistency in terms of focus, he will be a very valuable piece to this team. 

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10 hours ago, coachv said:

you greatly under value defense, my friend

No. We we’re ranked 50th in the country in defensive efficiency last year and 4th or 5th in B1G. If you take all the Stony Brooks and Browns and Jacksonville States who play much much inferior competition we would actually be top 30. Defense was not and won’t be our problem. We lack scoring and more importantly balance on the offensive end. If you think Justin is going to replace Romeos scoring and spacing at the 3 then he better take a huge leap in shooting. I’ll say this...Even if you don’t think we start Jerome at the 3 there is a better chance we start a 3 guard lineup with Rob, Devonte, and Al then Justin playing the 3. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Justin start the 4 one bit because he is our most versatile and talented defender but we have to balance the floor on offense. I’m not worried how we start the season but by our 8-10th game I imagine Jerome will be in that role at the 3.

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8 hours ago, coachv said:

i remember him hitting a couple 10' turn around jumpers on the baseline. granted, a small sample, but no one else on the team had that shot. i have hopes for him

I do too. Justin had some good games down the stretch...specifically the MSU game but he was wildly inconsistent on the perimeter. He played his best (at the 4) as you described around 10 feet when guys would drive and draw the defense and drop it to him. I don’t think Justin played more than 10 mins the whole season at the 3 on the wing last year. Remember with that weave we run that would put Justin our front handling the ball for those reversals and entry passes and most of his time around the 3 pt line. That is definitely not Justin’s game.

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45 minutes ago, BGleas said:

He literally air balled two completely wide open baseline jumpers down the stretch last season.

And how many charges did he have trying to drive the ball! He has a very limited handle and literally no chance of direction or floater or anything. A wing has to be a playmaker. Justin is a guy you make plays for...then toss him an alleyoop or drop it off for a bucket. Maybe he will work on his corner 3 and be a threat there but a wing he is not.

anyways I’ll stop because I don’t want to turn this into a bashing Justin thread because I do like the kid and a lot that he CAN do. 

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