Jump to content

TJD & Joey win First 2 Golden Jerseys


DWB

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, zerawkid said:

Due respect, I don’t understand the point in arguing devil’s advocate to the benefits and virtue in practicing and preparing hard. 
 

There is little to suggest someone who is a lousy worker in practicing and prepping actually will fare better than his or her peers who excel at it.

I didn't bring up Allen Iverson. I also think people way way over blow what he said. They try to make it some type of definitive statement from the guy...like he never practiced a day in his life or worked hard. They take it completely out of context. Of course every good player, every coach knows practice is crucial to being the best you can. But again...when we point out Allen Iverson that changes things. Allen practiced a TON...he was a veteran...and he had reached out to others in the NBA about how to stay HEALTHY. Gary Payton had told him a year before he doesn't practice the same. You have to take care of your body. To make matters worse he had issues with one of the most egotistical coaches in basketball history. So they had just been eliminated a day or so before from the playoffs after a disappointing season after making the finals and on top of everything....the guy that played his heart out on the floor and left everything out there had just lost a close family friend that year..and the trial was going on. Read this article. There is way more to the story including Allen having been under the influence when giving the interview but the media always only shows the one blurb....they don't go on to show the man breaking down discussing his dead friend. So I wasn't defending not practicing...nobody is dumb enough to do that....I was simply defending Allen Iverson because people like to take one meme...one quote and think they know the guy...or even the story. It's a lazy argument...and it was just FALSE. So I took issue and pointed it out. Allen Iverson like Isiah Thomas..two of the greatest little guards in the history of modern NBA basketball. Allen wasn't a champion because he didn't have the support on his team. I mean look at that roster...it was a great defensive team but he had ZERO help...they had no business ever making the NBA Finals and only for Allen they did. He was a great player....and certainly not LAZY. I have absolutely no problem with the idea that practice is important....but this premise that those that win Championships somehow practice harder or more deserving than those that don't. At that level..NBA...professional...there are way more things that separate a champion then practice.

https://www.espn.com/sportsnation/story/_/id/15479405/what-forgotten-allen-iverson-practice-rant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply
1 hour ago, dgambill said:

I didn't bring up Allen Iverson. I also think people way way over blow what he said. They try to make it some type of definitive statement from the guy...like he never practiced a day in his life or worked hard. They take it completely out of context. Of course every good player, every coach knows practice is crucial to being the best you can. But again...when we point out Allen Iverson that changes things. Allen practiced a TON...he was a veteran...and he had reached out to others in the NBA about how to stay HEALTHY. Gary Payton had told him a year before he doesn't practice the same. You have to take care of your body. To make matters worse he had issues with one of the most egotistical coaches in basketball history. So they had just been eliminated a day or so before from the playoffs after a disappointing season after making the finals and on top of everything....the guy that played his heart out on the floor and left everything out there had just lost a close family friend that year..and the trial was going on. Read this article. There is way more to the story including Allen having been under the influence when giving the interview but the media always only shows the one blurb....they don't go on to show the man breaking down discussing his dead friend. So I wasn't defending not practicing...nobody is dumb enough to do that....I was simply defending Allen Iverson because people like to take one meme...one quote and think they know the guy...or even the story. It's a lazy argument...and it was just FALSE. So I took issue and pointed it out. Allen Iverson like Isiah Thomas..two of the greatest little guards in the history of modern NBA basketball. Allen wasn't a champion because he didn't have the support on his team. I mean look at that roster...it was a great defensive team but he had ZERO help...they had no business ever making the NBA Finals and only for Allen they did. He was a great player....and certainly not LAZY. I have absolutely no problem with the idea that practice is important....but this premise that those that win Championships somehow practice harder or more deserving than those that don't. At that level..NBA...professional...there are way more things that separate a champion then practice.

https://www.espn.com/sportsnation/story/_/id/15479405/what-forgotten-allen-iverson-practice-rant

To be honest, the article you cited only reenforced my thoughts on AI's leadership. 

Show up late and then get into an argument with the coach? Show up drunk (and I don't think the people who said it in the article would or should have said it unless they were positive) to a press conference? I understand he was going through some tough personal circumstances, but any way you slice it, that's certainly not the way to handle it.

I never based my comment on "one quote." I followed Iverson from the time he went to Georgetown all the way through his NBA career. No, I don't know him personally, but I'd wager you don't either. I can only go on what I saw over 17 years. 

And what I didn't see was a leader and a championship player.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could care less about Allen Iverson, or what any other player did in practice.

To me, the most important message to come out of this announcement is that the highest rated recruit from last season is the one noted as working hardest. Lead by example. TJD not resting on the accolades or hype that comes from being a burger boy. 

I can only hope that his work ethic resonates with other kids and that they work to meet the elevated bar that a freshman has set.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, IUFLA said:

To be honest, the article you cited only reenforced my thoughts on AI's leadership. 

Show up late and then get into an argument with the coach? Show up drunk (and I don't think the people who said it in the article would or should have said it unless they were positive) to a press conference? I understand he was going through some tough personal circumstances, but any way you slice it, that's certainly not the way to handle it.

I never based my comment on "one quote." I followed Iverson from the time he went to Georgetown all the way through his NBA career. No, I don't know him personally, but I'd wager you don't either. I can only go on what I saw over 17 years. 

And what I didn't see was a leader and a championship player.

 

I'll drop it. My definition of a championship caliber player is different. Allen was constantly said to be the hardest working player on his team. Was fearless leader that put his body on the line every game. Early in his career he was an extremely hard working guy. He was constantly getting nicked up and hurt because of how little he was and how fearless he played. He went to several NBA players to ask how they take care of their body through a long NBA season. Remember this is before guys like Kawai Leonard who now regularly take GAMES off not just many practices and so Gary Payton said I don't practice. George Karl doesn't want the veterans tiring out their bodies and getting worn out. So Allen came back and told Larry Brown...one of the biggest **holes in coaching he needed a break. He couldn't keep practicing at the level Brown wanted. Larry thinking he was more important than Allen pushed back and wanted Allen gone. Guys don't get to the highest level by not working hard. These college kids are a far far far cry from Allen Iverson level...college or pro..so yes they need a TON more work in practice and I commend them. The fact was AFTER the season in his OWN time yes he was drunk. He had lost a very close family friend and sure didn't handle that well....but that had nothing to do with the basketball player or leader ON the court. Michael Jordan the greatest of all time QUIT!! He left the game when he had a family tragedy...and that's fine...that's fair and understandable. Allen played through it but had a tough time but suddenly he is the problem. It's fine...believe/feel what you like. I'm not buying it. Guy had his issues and demons....but on the court he was a winner and absolutely one of the best to ever lace them up. Practice/leadership didn't stop him from winning a title....he just was never on a team that was built to do it. Shaq had Kobe (amongst a bevy of other stars), Allen had who?? George Lynch...Aaron Mckie...Eric Snow!!! Give me a break. That is what kept him from being a champion...nothing more.

I absolutely don't want this to take away from Trayce...he has shown nothing but heart/leadership/and a true IU spirit on and off the court. Love this kid!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I'll drop it. My definition of a championship caliber player is different. Allen was constantly said to be the hardest working player on his team. Was fearless leader that put his body on the line every game. Early in his career he was an extremely hard working guy. He was constantly getting nicked up and hurt because of how little he was and how fearless he played. He went to several NBA players to ask how they take care of their body through a long NBA season. Remember this is before guys like Kawai Leonard who now regularly take GAMES off not just many practices and so Gary Payton said I don't practice. George Karl doesn't want the veterans tiring out their bodies and getting worn out. So Allen came back and told Larry Brown...one of the biggest **holes in coaching he needed a break. He couldn't keep practicing at the level Brown wanted. Larry thinking he was more important than Allen pushed back and wanted Allen gone. Guys don't get to the highest level by not working hard. These college kids are a far far far cry from Allen Iverson level...college or pro..so yes they need a TON more work in practice and I commend them. The fact was AFTER the season in his OWN time yes he was drunk. He had lost a very close family friend and sure didn't handle that well....but that had nothing to do with the basketball player or leader ON the court. Michael Jordan the greatest of all time QUIT!! He left the game when he had a family tragedy...and that's fine...that's fair and understandable. Allen played through it but had a tough time but suddenly he is the problem. It's fine...believe/feel what you like. I'm not buying it. Guy had his issues and demons....but on the court he was a winner and absolutely one of the best to ever lace them up. Practice/leadership didn't stop him from winning a title....he just was never on a team that was built to do it. Shaq had Kobe (amongst a bevy of other stars), Allen had who?? George Lynch...Aaron Mckie...Eric Snow!!! Give me a break. That is what kept him from being a champion...nothing more.

I absolutely don't want this to take away from Trayce...he has shown nothing but heart/leadership/and a true IU spirit on and off the court. Love this kid!

I completely agree with the premise of your post, and I'm an Iverson fan. The guy was a stud and one of the hardest working players I've ever seen. And in general on your point, veterans (whether NBA or college) generally know how to use practice to improve, but also pace themselves for the season and not burn out. 

With that said, I can tell you for a fact that he was drunk during much of the season. He'd leave practice and go straight out to the bars/clubs and often times comes back to the facility the next morning without going home (straight from the bar) and sleep through shootaround/practice in the training room, then get dressed for the game and put up 30+ like it never happened, then rinse and repeat. A former boss of mine at the Celtics started his career in PR for the Sixers, and man he has some Iverson stories. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I completely agree with the premise of your post, and I'm an Iverson fan. The guy was a stud and one of the hardest working players I've ever seen. And in general on your point, veterans (whether NBA or college) generally know how to use practice to improve, but also pace themselves for the season and not burn out. 

With that said, I can tell you for a fact that he was drunk during much of the season. He'd leave practice and go straight out to the bars/clubs and often times comes back to the facility the next morning without going home (straight from the bar) and sleep through shootaround/practice in the training room, then get dressed for the game and put up 30+ like it never happened, then rinse and repeat. A former boss of mine at the Celtics started his career in PR for the Sixers. 

Yeah I don't want to derail the thread...I thought this all occurred during that season he was dealing with the family tragedy. Anyways..my premise was that he didn't win a championship because of the team he was on...not because he didn't practice hard enough...but yes..he had many demons off the court that were well documented. My point more was Kawai Leonard and many others don't even play all the games and many limit their practices...so calling out AI I thought wasn't fair. I can't defend his drinking etc..there is no defense for that...but just trying to say he wasn't a champion because of the practice thing...I didn't agree. Thanks for your insight!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I'll drop it. My definition of a championship caliber player is different. Allen was constantly said to be the hardest working player on his team. Was fearless leader that put his body on the line every game. Early in his career he was an extremely hard working guy. He was constantly getting nicked up and hurt because of how little he was and how fearless he played. He went to several NBA players to ask how they take care of their body through a long NBA season. Remember this is before guys like Kawai Leonard who now regularly take GAMES off not just many practices and so Gary Payton said I don't practice. George Karl doesn't want the veterans tiring out their bodies and getting worn out. So Allen came back and told Larry Brown...one of the biggest **holes in coaching he needed a break. He couldn't keep practicing at the level Brown wanted. Larry thinking he was more important than Allen pushed back and wanted Allen gone. Guys don't get to the highest level by not working hard. These college kids are a far far far cry from Allen Iverson level...college or pro..so yes they need a TON more work in practice and I commend them. The fact was AFTER the season in his OWN time yes he was drunk. He had lost a very close family friend and sure didn't handle that well....but that had nothing to do with the basketball player or leader ON the court. Michael Jordan the greatest of all time QUIT!! He left the game when he had a family tragedy...and that's fine...that's fair and understandable. Allen played through it but had a tough time but suddenly he is the problem. It's fine...believe/feel what you like. I'm not buying it. Guy had his issues and demons....but on the court he was a winner and absolutely one of the best to ever lace them up. Practice/leadership didn't stop him from winning a title....he just was never on a team that was built to do it. Shaq had Kobe (amongst a bevy of other stars), Allen had who?? George Lynch...Aaron Mckie...Eric Snow!!! Give me a break. That is what kept him from being a champion...nothing more.

I absolutely don't want this to take away from Trayce...he has shown nothing but heart/leadership/and a true IU spirit on and off the court. Love this kid!

That's dropping it?!?! 😁

No, it's cool. You're opinion is different than what I believe and that's fine. I tend to think it's easy to "play hard" when the lights are on, but to me the razor thin edge that separates athletes is gained when it's you against yourself. When the lights aren't on and the only accolades you'll get is the appreciation of your teammates and coaches. 

I'm glad TJD seems to see it that way too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, IUFLA said:

That's dropping it?!?! 😁

No, it's cool. You're opinion is different than what I believe and that's fine. I tend to think it's easy to "play hard" when the lights are on, but to me the razor thin edge that separates athletes is gained when it's you against yourself. When the lights aren't on and the only accolades you'll get is the appreciation of your teammates and coaches. 

I'm glad TJD seems to see it that way too.

I hope Trayce is practicing with the lights on...will definitely help his fg %. Sorry about trying to get the last word! I’m bad about that! Always great convos on HSN.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Does anybody recall if the gold jersey is subjective or objective?  In other words, is it based on stats or metrics in practice, or is it a subjective concept where the coaches identify the guy based on perception?  My recollection is that it's based on data but I don't remember for sure.

pretty sure it is based on metrics in practice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I've been laughing at those who have had Deron in their starting 5.  CoachSS said a while back that Trayce and Joey were miles ahead of Deron.  Don't doubt him.

Three players were held out of Hoosier Hysteria, due to injury.  One of them was not Joey.  One was De'Ron.  Should answer any question in one's mind as to why De'Ron is/was behind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

pretty sure it is based on metrics in practice

I remember reading an article on Archie who said it was based on performance (stats) in practice. And I don't think it was just scoring, it was on a number of metrics, including....wait for it....deflections. :snack:

I hope one of the metrics is how many screens you set!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • DWB changed the title to TJD & Joey win First 2 Golden Jerseys

And not to rock the boat...but for all of you Smith fans who think he's gonna leap tall buildings in a single bound, where is he? He's supposed to be making this great leap forward in his play. So far he's been beaten out by a freshman, and a transfer who averaged something like 7 points and 3 rebounds in his first 2 years of D1 BBall.

Sure would be nice to know the rankings of the players for the golden jersey. Hope Archie posts them on the bulletin board at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, DWB said:

And not to rock the boat...but for all of you Smith fans who think he's gonna leap tall buildings in a single bound, where is he? He's supposed to be making this great leap forward in his play. So far he's been beaten out by a freshman, and a transfer who averaged something like 7 points and 3 rebounds in his first 2 years of D1 BBall.

Sure would be nice to know the rankings of the players for the golden jersey. Hope Archie posts them on the bulletin board at least.

I would not downgrade a player just because he has not won the golden jersey.  If you did that couldn't you do the same thing about RP or AL or Devonte.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, DWB said:

And not to rock the boat...but for all of you Smith fans who think he's gonna leap tall buildings in a single bound, where is he? He's supposed to be making this great leap forward in his play. So far he's been beaten out by a freshman, and a transfer who averaged something like 7 points and 3 rebounds in his first 2 years of D1 BBall.

Sure would be nice to know the rankings of the players for the golden jersey. Hope Archie posts them on the bulletin board at least.

What I can tell you about Smith is his car is parked at Cook Hall more than anyone else. What's he working on IDK but he is putting in the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have no doubt Smith is "putting in the time". And I think he's a really nice kid. He's well spoken, obviously has athletic talent, and is (supposedly) smart.

But he has never won the golden jersey that I've seen over the past 2 years. RP was hurt last year, and I wouldn't expect a newbie to win it in the first place (which puts that much more emphasis on TJD's winning it). Devonte is nursing some kind of injury now, since he didn't play in HH, and Al was inconsistent last year with his shooting. He's making strides I'm sure, but he doesn't appear to be head and shoulders above the rest in performance.

I know it sounds like I'm dumping on Smith, but not as a person...but there are a ton of people here, and elsewhere, who think he'll be the next super star for us, and I just don't see it. When I see it, I'll sing his praises to the heavens, and you can all rain down on me all you want. But I don't think he's motivated to play at the same intensity that we saw with McBob, Devonte, Vic, Cody and others.

I'd LOVE for Smith to excel. There's just no evidence to date that he is. Hopefully that will change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Does anybody recall if the gold jersey is subjective or objective?  In other words, is it based on stats or metrics in practice, or is it a subjective concept where the coaches identify the guy based on perception?  My recollection is that it's based on data but I don't remember for sure.

Number of deflections

:coffee:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/14/2019 at 1:07 AM, coachv said:

does not get mentioned much but let's not forget how good his pops was

Agree.  Was both talented and a grinder. 

Was a different era of basketball, but I'd love it if Trayce developed just a little bit of his dad's mean streak.  Dale Davis was not a guy you wanted to see on the other end of the lane. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...