IUFLA Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: Maybe I am completely wrong and looking at things differently than they were but I for one for not feel our program was in a terrible place when CAM took over. To compare what Archie inherited to what what Crean had are light years apart. I really dont care if we are above 500 if we play hard . Those early Crean teams did that. Sampson had tons of talent and won and the kids worked HARD but I could not get behind that team for their off court issues. Indiana basketball is more than wins and losses and our fans recognize that. I just ask for effort make grades and stay out of trouble. For some reason we cant seem to get the play hard part down I'm not comparing what Crean inherited to what Archie inherited...I feel the same way you do about the early Crean years...it just became apparent that CTC wasn't going to have IU where we all want it to be...always in the tournament, and most years a final 4 threat. I will say that CAM has had a little bad luck, but I also think he's so stubborn and focused on HIS idea of what he wants the program to be, and how he wants the players to play, that right now we're in a state of gridlock. I've said this many times...I'm willing to give him through his first graduating class (the current sophomores) to get the program where he wants it...his team, his players... If by then we're still mired in mediocrity, sayonara... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I'm not comparing what Crean inherited to what Archie inherited...I feel the same way you do about the early Crean years...it just became apparent that CTC wasn't going to have IU where we all want it to be...always in the tournament, and most years a final 4 threat. I will say that CAM has had a little bad luck, but I also think he's so stubborn and focused on HIS idea of what he wants the program to be, and how he wants the players to play, that right now we're in a state of gridlock. I've said this many times...I'm willing to give him through his first graduating class (the current sophomores) to get the program where he wants it...his team, his players... If by then we're still mired in mediocrity, sayonara... If the program is still mired in mediocrity in 2022, it will be totally dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, FW_Hoosier said: If the program is still mired in mediocrity in 2022, it will be totally dead. Didn't die after Crean's first 3 years, so I kinda doubt it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 30 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I'm not comparing what Crean inherited to what Archie inherited...I feel the same way you do about the early Crean years...it just became apparent that CTC wasn't going to have IU where we all want it to be...always in the tournament, and most years a final 4 threat. I will say that CAM has had a little bad luck, but I also think he's so stubborn and focused on HIS idea of what he wants the program to be, and how he wants the players to play, that right now we're in a state of gridlock. I've said this many times...I'm willing to give him through his first graduating class (the current sophomores) to get the program where he wants it...his team, his players... If by then we're still mired in mediocrity, sayonara... Unless things change from the administration side drastically a coach like Archie wont be successful here. Its apparent that hard nosed , tough in your face is no longer allowed here. To win you need a high potent offense and allow guys to play freely with little to no ramifications for not doing things correctly. I am starting to connect some dots that I was not aware of and a coach like Archie I am afraid will continue to struggle. For the record CAM I thought was a slam dunk hire at the time. His hands are tied in a way i dont see him being able to adapt to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, IUFLA said: Didn't die after Crean's first 3 years, so I kinda doubt it... Five years is almost twice as long as three years. And that was because people could actually see that Crean was building something, as opposed to whatever this is. The program will not be able to recover from blowing up what Crean had managed to build and spending 5 years on this terrible brand of basketball. The expectations of the fanbase have already been drastically lowered, and I have a bad feeling that’s going to be permanent... Archie would get a statue for two conference titles and three Sweet 16s in five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 25 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Didn't die after Crean's first 3 years, so I kinda doubt it... Because it was on the rise and guys like Cody saw that and wanted to be a part of that. Do the 21 guys want to be a part of this? If so we will be fine if not we are in a world of hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: Unless things change from the administration side drastically a coach like Archie wont be successful here. Its apparent that hard nosed , tough in your face is no longer allowed here. To win you need a high potent offense and allow guys to play freely with little to no ramifications for not doing things correctly. I am starting to connect some dots that I was not aware of and a coach like Archie I am afraid will continue to struggle. For the record CAM I thought was a slam dunk hire at the time. His hands are tied in a way i dont see him being able to adapt to I'm not informed on the administration part, so I leave that to those who are...though if it's true, it is a shame... But I see some things that make me believe that CAM's hands are not tied nearly as much as some (not you) would lead us all to believe...Damezi getting mop up minutes, and players like TJD and Green getting yanked when he sees a lack of hustle or focus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Five years is almost twice as long as three years. And that was because people could actually see that Crean was building something, as opposed to whatever this is. The program will not be able to recover from blowing up what Crean had managed to build and spending 5 years on this terrible brand of basketball. The expectations of the fanbase have already been drastically lowered, and I have a bad feeling that’s going to be permanent... Archie would get a statue for two conference titles and three Sweet 16s in five years. I've been watching IU basketball since the 1960s, and believe me, the dog days have outnumbered the days of wine and roses...but the fans were always there...in the down years maybe less numbers, but the diehards like @milehiiu, @rico, and @IU Scott, and myself will always be there... I think you're underestimating what basketball means in the state of Indiana... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: Because it was on the rise and guys like Cody saw that and wanted to be a part of that. Do the 21 guys want to be a part of this? If so we will be fine if not we are in a world of hurt I guess we'll see...I certainly hope so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, IUFLA said: I've been watching IU basketball since the 1960s, and believe me, the dog days have outnumbered the days of wine and roses...but the fans were always there...in the down years maybe less numbers, but the diehards like @milehiiu, @rico, and @IU Scott, and myself will always be there... I think you're underestimating what basketball means in the state of Indiana... No matter how disappointing and how upset I get with the team I am the next game. I have never said to myself I am done with them and will not watch anymore games. yes I want to win as bad as anyone but college basketball is entertainment for me and I am not going to take that out of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, IU Scott said: No matter how disappointing and how upset I get with the team I am the next game. I have never said to myself I am done with them and will not watch anymore games. yes I want to win as bad as anyone but college basketball is entertainment for me and I am not going to take that out of my life. Even in some of our worst games, there is always something I am able to take from watching IU play from beginning to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, milehiiu said: Even in some of our worst games, there is always something I am able to take from watching IU play from beginning to end. I get upset and vent during the game and a little afterwards but the next day I am ready for the next game to come. I love college basketball and for me one of the saddest times is when One Shining Moment goes off the air. I know that when that is over the college season is over and it will be a long 7 months until the next game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceDouglas Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 On 2/16/2020 at 11:51 AM, FW_Hoosier said: A better team without Dosunmu, Cockburn, and Feliz? No way. I may wish to retract this statement re: Ayo and Feliz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I've been watching IU basketball since the 1960s, and believe me, the dog days have outnumbered the days of wine and roses...but the fans were always there...in the down years maybe less numbers, but the diehards like @milehiiu, @rico, and @IU Scott, and myself will always be there... I think you're underestimating what basketball means in the state of Indiana... There will always be the diehards in any fanbase, but that only makes up a small portion. Not to mention that a large portion of the fanbase today has no memory of the days of wine and roses. And this board is filled with some of the biggest diehards out there, and look how many are checking out, skipping games because they can’t handle the frustration, etc. Archie is doing serious damage to the program right now, and I don’t think it can take two more years of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: There will always be the diehards in any fanbase, but that only makes up a small portion. Not to mention that a large portion of the fanbase today has no memory of the days of wine and roses. And this board is filled with some of the biggest diehards out there, and look how many are checking out, skipping games because they can’t handle the frustration, etc. Archie is doing serious damage to the program right now, and I don’t think it can take two more years of this. For me the down turn of the program started way before Archie got here. I was more upset with RMK's last 5 years than I have been the last 12 years. I think it is worse when you have a guy you know is great that just pretty much gives up and is just going through the motions. Those last 5 years I was more frustrated watching that group because they really had the potential to be really good. You had McDonald's AA on those teams like Patterson, Reed, Collier, Recker and also had guys like AJ Guyton and Micheal Lewis who were very good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Seeking6 said: Wisconsin loses their top scorer in Kobe King and they win 4 of 5 with wins vs Sparty, Ohio St, and now Purdue. Others stepping up I guess. Interesting concept to think about as we head down the final stretch. Might be an indicator of things to come once a certain senior is gone....or we may realize it isn't the kids it's who is in charge. The winds are a blowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: There will always be the diehards in any fanbase, but that only makes up a small portion. Not to mention that a large portion of the fanbase today has no memory of the days of wine and roses. And this board is filled with some of the biggest diehards out there, and look how many are checking out, skipping games because they can’t handle the frustration, etc. Archie is doing serious damage to the program right now, and I don’t think it can take two more years of this. I can't help but wonder how IU basketball would be to you if it went back to pre-1985 tournament selections or even pre-1975. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JugRox Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, BruceDouglas said: I may wish to retract this statement re: Ayo and Feliz. Ayo is a bad man..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, IU Scott said: For me the down turn of the program started way before Archie got here. I was more upset with RMK's last 5 years than I have been the last 12 years. I think it is worse when you have a guy you know is great that just pretty much gives up and is just going through the motions. Those last 5 years I was more frustrated watching that group because they really had the potential to be really good. You had McDonald's AA on those teams like Patterson, Reed, Collier, Recker and also had guys like AJ Guyton and Micheal Lewis who were very good players. Yeah, those Knight under achievers had major talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, JugRox said: Ayo is a bad man..... Yep. Those highlights are what we hoped Romeo was and could have been fully healthy. Dang it. I want Ayo on my team. He has to be climbing the boards. I'd take him top 5. Reminding me more and more of the skinny scorer Kentucky had a few years ago that is doing find in the NBA. De Aaron Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, IU Scott said: For me the down turn of the program started way before Archie got here. I was more upset with RMK's last 5 years than I have been the last 12 years. I think it is worse when you have a guy you know is great that just pretty much gives up and is just going through the motions. Those last 5 years I was more frustrated watching that group because they really had the potential to be really good. You had McDonald's AA on those teams like Patterson, Reed, Collier, Recker and also had guys like AJ Guyton and Micheal Lewis who were very good players. See I used to put that on the players...at the time I didn't know what was going on with Knight. I thought it was more of a new age culture that thought they were more important than the coach and unwilling to work hard and be coached hard. I see now it was more of an onion situation with layers. Things though were unraveling but I think if Knight had become the Knight we saw at Texas Tech...really a teacher...the talent he would still be able to get at IU would have put us in contention for B1G titles the next 5 more years. I think with the right leadership in place at IU he could have been reigned in some and refocused...or maybe not. Either way the loss of Knight plus the decisions of those running the University at that time set us down this path. The right hire at that time and Indiana basketball would still be UNC/Kansas basketball in the eyes and on the scoreboard...of course minus the cheating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 32 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: There will always be the diehards in any fanbase, but that only makes up a small portion. Not to mention that a large portion of the fanbase today has no memory of the days of wine and roses. And this board is filled with some of the biggest diehards out there, and look how many are checking out, skipping games because they can’t handle the frustration, etc. Archie is doing serious damage to the program right now, and I don’t think it can take two more years of this. I don't know...when I was a kid, I pretty much rooted for the same teams my father did...it was 10 years in before I ever saw IU win a tournament game (they went in 67, but got beat in the 1st round...still one of my favorite teams)... Maybe it is different now days, and maybe you're right in some ways...but I'll never stop watching and pulling for IU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 21 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I don't know...when I was a kid, I pretty much rooted for the same teams my father did...it was 10 years in before I ever saw IU win a tournament game (they went in 67, but got beat in the 1st round...still one of my favorite teams)... Maybe it is different now days, and maybe you're right in some ways...but I'll never stop watching and pulling for IU. As I get older the passion has shifted. Game day was the.most important thing ( outside of family obviously) night before big games I couldn't sleep I bleed cream and crimson and hard as anyone. It's very different now. I have accepted not being great but worse expecting to lose was never in my mind. Now winning a road game to me is way beyond my expectations. That's sad. It does not change my level of fandom just lowered my view and expectations of this program. Like all I want to get excited for Indiana basketball. It was only a few years ago that I expected us to win every game. We are at a dangerous point and I just hope we get it righted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: As I get older the passion has shifted. Game day was the.most important thing ( outside of family obviously) night before big games I couldn't sleep I bleed cream and crimson and hard as anyone. It's very different now. I have accepted not being great but worse expecting to lose was never in my mind. Now winning a road game to me is way beyond my expectations. That's sad. It does not change my level of fandom just lowered my view and expectations of this program. Like all I want to get excited for Indiana basketball. It was only a few years ago that I expected us to win every game. We are at a dangerous point and I just hope we get it righted. Oh definitely things have changed...and definitely things are more important to me with a family. I do remember actually being in a layup line in HS with the loud speakers playing the UK/IU games over the radio. THAT WAS INDIANA BASKETBALL FOR A LONG TIME!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 21 minutes ago, dgambill said: Oh definitely things have changed...and definitely things are more important to me with a family. I do remember actually being in a layup line in HS with the loud speakers playing the UK/IU games over the radio. THAT WAS INDIANA BASKETBALL FOR A LONG TIME!! For me our whole family was into it. We went to lots of games and watched every weekend game together like it's the tournament. Now I cant get 1 member of my family to go to a game. That's sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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