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The 2019-20 College Basketball Season (non-IU)


5fouls

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3 minutes ago, rico said:

1967...and it has a lot to do with the fan base.

1978

I don't think age has much to do with the fanbase other than the younger people give less and less of a crap...and who could blame them.  We have not been very good at all for the majority of college age students' lives.

However, I am interested in your theory, please share.

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2 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

1978

I don't think age has much to do with the fanbase other than the younger people give less and less of a crap...and who could blame them.  We have not been very good at all for the majority of college age students' lives.

However, I am interested in your theory, please share.

I will get into my theory when I return from my in-laws.  

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4 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

If you guys want to get into this silliness, fine.  The difference between Butler melting down and Indiana melting down (or a host of other programs that are better than us right now) is that they still manage to win the majority of their games.  We don't.  The end.

Our fans would be much more forgiving if our program has not been ridiculously mediocre for 2 decades plus.  Miller is .590 overall since arriving at Indiana.  He starts winning closer to 70% of his games like Butler has been doing, people will shut up.  If we are ranked in the top 10 and have a let down game, people will be disappointed but they will let up.  Particularly if we are consistently good.  The bar is so ridiculously low right now that all it would take is for a coach to just make the %$#% NCAA tournament.  Forget competing for even a Big Ten title, just do the absolute low bar for a program like Indiana of making the tournament.  That is the difference between those other programs and this one.  We had an elite pedigree and squandered it.  Those who remember what we are capable of are becoming either more and more apathetic or more and more angry.  I am a mixture of both.  I miss a ton of games anymore but the depths this program has fallen to pisses me off to no end.  Pointing out that Top 10 Butler struggled and Top 5 Ohio State stumbled is a really sh...crappy comparison to what we have dealt with since the turn of the century.  

Most of us on here remember the glory days and would love to get back there but college basketball has also changed a lot since those days.  Like I said our fan base is knowledgeable but not so much on how the game is played and coached today.  We are knowledgeable about the motion offense and the man to man defense but that kind of stuff is no longer part of the game.  Also there are more teams who are capable of beating anyone an the difference between the top teams and the bottom teams are closer than ever.

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3 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

1978

I don't think age has much to do with the fanbase other than the younger people give less and less of a crap...and who could blame them.  We have not been very good at all for the majority of college age students' lives.

However, I am interested in your theory, please share.

Probably he means you tried to make it out that the fans who are making what you called excuses are the younger ones who did not see what IU use to be.  Rico is showing you even us older fans who have seen championships can see that it will take time to turn this around.

 

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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Most of us on here remember the glory days and would love to get back there but college basketball has also changed a lot since those days.  Like I said our fan base is knowledgeable but not so much on how the game is played and coached today.  We are knowledgeable about the motion offense and the man to man defense but that kind of stuff is no longer part of the game.  Also there are more teams who are capable of beating anyone an the difference between the top teams and the bottom teams are closer than ever.

I know how the game is coached and played today.  It is played with shooting in mind and, at the upper levels, by bringing in an ever revolving door of high tier talent.  It involves skirting the "gray area" when you are recruiting those players.  It involves a compliance department that helps you do that.

Now what of those things are we currently doing?  Shooting?  Nope.  A steady stream of high end talent?  Nope.  An administration on board with letting the coaching staff do whatever it is that Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Louisville, MSU, etc. do so that they can being in more than their share of talent?  Nope.

Your point is why I said age does not matter.  You could have been around for the glory years and still have Crimson Colored glasses.  You are currently clutching to hope and faith right now, because the numbers don't give much to hang ones hat on.  When it comes to IU basketball, I am out of the hope and faith realm after 20 years.  I am in the, I'll believe it when I see it camp.  I don't see it yet.

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40 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

#24 Wichita St in a battle at home against 6-7 E Carolina. 70-67 WS with 1:18 to go

Update: WS survives 75-69, despite shooting 16-29 FTs

Gregg Marshall not recruiting or teaching FT shooting.  

Maybe the missus is the FT coach.  :coffee:

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5 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

1978

I don't think age has much to do with the fanbase other than the younger people give less and less of a crap...and who could blame them.  We have not been very good at all for the majority of college age students' lives.

However, I am interested in your theory, please share.

You missed the 70's and early 80's.  Hell, you might have even missed '87.  You might not even have watched IU win a national championship live.  You missed IU in it's glory under Knight.  I watch many here beach, scrutinize, and second guess IU.  My theory is that most know a little about the history, few here lived it.  How did you feel in '77 after going 14-13?  How about '85 after making it to the Elite Eight in '84 with the same roster?  How do you think we that lived that feel right now?  It pains me to say the least.  I ain't used to it whatsoever.  But if 20 years taught me anything it taught me patience.  I follow the Hoosiers religiously, I die with each loss a tad.  And to be honest you said it better than I.  

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3 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I know how the game is coached and played today.  It is played with shooting in mind and, at the upper levels, by bringing in an ever revolving door of high tier talent.  It involves skirting the "gray area" when you are recruiting those players.  It involves a compliance department that helps you do that.

Now what of those things are we currently doing?  Shooting?  Nope.  A steady stream of high end talent?  Nope.  An administration on board with letting the coaching staff do whatever it is that Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Louisville, MSU, etc. do so that they can being in more than their share of talent?  Nope.

Your point is why I said age does not matter.  You could have been around for the glory years and still have Crimson Colored glasses.  You are currently clutching to hope and faith right now, because the numbers don't give much to hang ones hat on.  When it comes to IU basketball, I am out of the hope and faith realm after 20 years.  I am in the, I'll believe it when I see it camp.  I don't see it yet.

One I never want IU to skirt the rules like those schools do.  What I don't like about todays game is that the analytics has taken a lot of good shots away from todays game.  It is saying an open 15 foot shot is no good but an contested 21 foot shot is better.  I guess I need to stop watching old games where the flow of the offense was so much better because teams would just take the first good open shot.  Today if a player gets the ball and is wide open but 15 foot out they don't take the shot.  Instead they drive to the basketball and have to throw up a contested layup.

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2 hours ago, rico said:

You missed the 70's and early 80's.  Hell, you might have even missed '87.  You might not even have watched IU win a national championship live.  You missed IU in it's glory under Knight.  I watch many here beach, scrutinize, and second guess IU.  My theory is that most know a little about the history, few here lived it.  How did you feel in '77 after going 14-13?  How about '85 after making it to the Elite Eight in '84 with the same roster?  How do you think we that lived that feel right now?  It pains me to say the least.  I ain't used to it whatsoever.  But if 20 years taught me anything it taught me patience.  I follow the Hoosiers religiously, I die with each loss a tad.  And to be honest you said it better than I.  

I remember being on spring break in 81 and watching TV all day the day of the national championship.  That was the day that president Reagan was shot and all day there was a doubt if the game was going to be played at all.

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2 hours ago, rico said:

You missed the 70's and early 80's.  Hell, you might have even missed '87.  You might not even have watched IU win a national championship live.  You missed IU in it's glory under Knight.  I watch many here beach, scrutinize, and second guess IU.  My theory is that most know a little about the history, few here lived it.  How did you feel in '77 after going 14-13?  How about '85 after making it to the Elite Eight in '84 with the same roster?  How do you think we that lived that feel right now?  It pains me to say the least.  I ain't used to it whatsoever.  But if 20 years taught me anything it taught me patience.  I follow the Hoosiers religiously, I die with each loss a tad.  And to be honest you said it better than I.  

I remember 1987.  The '92 loss to Duke ripped my young heart out.  I grew up in northern Indiana and had quite a few friends who became Michigan fans when the Fab Five (misnomer) landed.  Many an argument around the lunch table about who the better team was.  I was a senior at IU when Knight got fired.  I thought that we may struggle for an identity for a bit but if 41 year old me went back and laid out what the next 20 years were going to look like to 21 year old me, 21 year old me would have called him a lunatic.

Honestly, I think we are stuck with Miller no matter what for a few years because the Admin at IU is so screwed up and the coaching world knows it.  I am hoping that some of the BoT start to move on and that we can get some people in with actual vision for the University, both athletically and academically.

So I would like for Miller to figure things out.  I'm just tired of the same ol shhh every year though.

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2 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I remember 1987.  The '92 loss to Duke ripped my young heart out.  I grew up in northern Indiana and had quite a few friends who became Michigan fans when the Fab Five (misnomer) landed.  Many an argument around the lunch table about who the better team was.  I was a senior at IU when Knight got fired.  I thought that we may struggle for an identity for a bit but if 41 year old me went back and laid out what the next 20 years were going to look like to 21 year old me, 21 year old me would have called him a lunatic.

Honestly, I think we are stuck with Miller no matter what for a few years because the Admin at IU is so screwed up and the coaching world knows it.  I am hoping that some of the BoT start to move on and that we can get some people in with actual vision for the University, both athletically and academically.

So I would like for Miller to figure things out.  I'm just tired of the same ol shhh every year though.

We are all tired of the mediocrity but our fans have not helped out either with the constant bitching and moaning on social media,  It does not help the program and hurts it because you know it is used in negative recruiting.  What is not fair is to put everything on Archie since he has only been here 2.5 years and had nothing to do with the last 20 years.  I think every coach should get at least 4 years before anyone should seriously talk about a coaching change.  Give a coach a chance to prove themselves and fans should not be an hindrance to his ability to succeed.

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

constant bitching and moaning on social media,  It does not help the program and hurts it because you know it is used in negative recruiting.  

There is a lot of truth in this statement.  Unless a player has always dreamed of going to IU, if he can go somewhere else, be just as successful, it's perfectly reasonable to understand why he would select a school where he wouldn't be under so much scrutiny.  It's like in professional baseball, some very good players just can't handle the pressure of playing in New York City.    

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20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

We are all tired of the mediocrity but our fans have not helped out either with the constant bitching and moaning on social media,  It does not help the program and hurts it because you know it is used in negative recruiting.  What is not fair is to put everything on Archie since he has only been here 2.5 years and had nothing to do with the last 20 years.  I think every coach should get at least 4 years before anyone should seriously talk about a coaching change.  Give a coach a chance to prove themselves and fans should not be an hindrance to his ability to succeed.

Fair.  However, I think criticizing the poor play before that 4 years is up is fair game.  And we have played poorly since he arrived (on the whole).

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11 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I wish IU hoops fans would take a step back, take a breath, understand that they are not helping 

I agree.  We should stop caring until they get it fixed.  A half empty Assembly Hall and no one talking about the team on social media will totally help out.

 

On that note, I'm hopping out of this thread.  Wrong place for this discussion.

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We are no different on social media or forums then any other team, both collegiate and professional.  Better than some, worst than others

Only the very outliers who attack a recruit or player directly through their personal SM avenues does/could it affect the team in question.  We like to think that we have some affect but honestly we don't.  We're white noise at best.

Just my opinion obviously but I have never once read or heard of a player or recruit mention that they decided against a school because their fans said mean things.

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11 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I wish IU hoops fans would take a step back, take a breath, understand that they are not helping 

You want real problems? Watch what happens when apathy settles in. At least now people are still discussing, complaining or whatever. You want a real problem? Not talking about IU hoops at all. Good or bad.

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11 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Fair.  However, I think criticizing the poor play before that 4 years is up is fair game.  And we have played poorly since he arrived (on the whole).

I agree about the poor play but when you call out for the coaches job or call out players it does not help the program.

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Juwan Howard lands another one in Terrance Williams. Gives him 4 of the top 85 in the country. I know the one (Todd I believe is his name) probably won't ever step foot on campus but nice haul for them so far. Never been a fan of Michigan anything but when it comes to hoops anything to make the coin a little brighter in Ann Arbor over East Lansing I think eventually is good for others trying to remove Sparty as the best program in the conference.

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