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Early Assessment


Danomatic
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1. This team looks very dejected. There’s literally no emotions on the bench and not one single upperclassmen looks engaged. Zero intensity.

2. The freshmen look to have some nice upside. Durham and Smith are playing really well right now, and look like can carve into some others playing time. Moore has shown some flashes, but I think that he’ll be solid once he adjusts.

3. Free throws. How are they this poor from the foul line? I would imagine that they’re shooting lots of free throws tomorrow during practice.

4. If I were Archie, I’d let Newkirk know that he isn’t a scorer and needs to distribute more. Josh has a terrible shot and should only shoot inside the foul line, or in transition. He definitely shouldn’t have the green light from beyond the arc.

5. We’re in for lots of growing pains this year. Yes, it’s going to be a long season. However, we knew this going in. 

 

Edited by Danomatic
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I see a bunch of guys thinking too much. Will be happy to see them play when it doesn't look like they are processing what they think CAM wants them to do and they are able to just have faith in what they are doing and enjoy doing it. 

I don't know how this season's going to go but I think beating a ranked team this year will go a long way in terms of confidence in what CAM is teaching 

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17 minutes ago, Jacarcio said:

I see a bunch of guys thinking too much. Will be happy to see them play when it doesn't look like they are processing what they think CAM wants them to do and they are able to just have faith in what they are doing and enjoy doing it. 

I don't know how this season's going to go but I think beating a ranked team this year will go a long way in terms of confidence in what CAM is teaching 

I agree. You can see guys that are hesitant and thinking. This is expected with such a big change in the approach.

The freshmen seem more loose, maybe because there aren' so many conflicting princples in their head.

I do think the team will improve as the year goes on. Become more fluid and free within the schemes.

May be a long season. My focus, for now, is to see if that improvement plays out.

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Right now this is not a very good team.  We got clobbered at home by a middle of the pack at best MVC team, and had some trouble beating at home the worst team on our schedule. 

This team can't defend especially the 3.

Justin Smith and Al Durham should start.  They're much better than anything else we have.

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On a positive note:

-I'm not sure I've ever seen a Crean team tear up a zone with-in a half court offense like we saw yesterday.
-The patience shown to feed the ball inside was nice to see. In the In the past 5 years we've had Cody, Noah and Thomas and I've never seen a consistent effort to get the dominant big man multiple touches like I saw yesterday...that was awesome. 
-The way the defense attacked the screens also looked to be a good sign. There was good help, good recovery (at times) and not as much switching off the ball. 
-Yes, the score against Howard was closer than I liked, but we did out play them more than the score would suggest. Those circus 3's were ridiculous and free throws are an easy fix. (Or at least an easy fix to get to 60%....haha.) 

I think (hope) by the end of the year we'll be playing like a tournament team, but unfortunately I think it will be too little too late. Ironically, we've been longing for a tough out of conference schedule, and when we finally get one, I think it'd be more beneficial for the team to have an easier one. The rest of November and December will be rough. 

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Was refreshing to see the way they attacked the zone.  We got the ball in and out of the paint well, and Davis, Smith, and even Moore all got good looks.  Never saw anything like that with Crean

Defense still very sub-par.  Like I said after ISU, it’s not an accident that these teams are “just happening” to go nuts from three.  Our pathetically soft players aren’t putting any pressure on them, and when teams are allowed to get comfortable and start playing in rhythm, they’re going to shoot well.

Overall attitude and vibe of the team was strange, and pretty discouraging.  There’s obviously some kind of disconnect between Archie and the players at this point.  I have a bad feeling that the upperclassmen, led by RoJo, are going to pack it in by January after we get beat up for the first two months of the season.  Will be interesting to see how long it takes for Archie to start benching players.

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10 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Was refreshing to see the way they attacked the zone.  We got the ball in and out of the paint well, and Davis, Smith, and even Moore all got good looks.  Never saw anything like that with Crean

Defense still very sub-par.  Like I said after ISU, it’s not an accident that these teams are “just happening” to go nuts from three.  Our pathetically soft players aren’t putting any pressure on them, and when teams are allowed to get comfortable and start playing in rhythm, they’re going to shoot well.

Overall attitude and vibe of the team was strange, and pretty discouraging.  There’s obviously some kind of disconnect between Archie and the players at this point.  I have a bad feeling that the upperclassmen, led by RoJo, are going to pack it in by January after we get beat up for the first two months of the season.  Will be interesting to see how long it takes for Archie to start benching players.

I would say that the defense was fine for the first 25-28 minutes but was terrible the last 12-15 minutes.  Some of the 3's that Howard hit was just plain lucky because they were off balance and did not even square up.

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I have a different outlook. I think we're just seeing what I think was fair to expect -- a team learning a new style, including defensively, and a team finding itself after the departure of every double digit scorer other than Rob.

I don't think our players are pathetically soft defensively, I think they're learning a system. Rob has certainly shown he can play D, as has Green, and Morgan (who left the game early to injury), and we're also integrating frosh along with increased roles by the sophs after the 3 departures, and then there's Collin's injury after he was primed for a major role.

I am not sure about vibe, but I think we're going to continue to see improvement, and Collin's return will be a boost. I said it before the season, I think the early games are going to be tough, as these two have been, but that by mid-season or so, this team, if healthy, will be a scrappy fighting team.

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You guys can keep telling yourselves these teams are just “getting lucky” all you want, but they’re going to continue to “get lucky” until our players decide to play with some aggressiveness and physicality.  That’s just the game of basketball.

And I don’t see any reason to think that this team is going to turn into a scrappy team.  Last season proved how mentally weak they were, and that has obviously carried over into this season.  Despite all the talk, all the evidence indicates that RoJo, Juwan, and Newkirk don’t have what it takes to be leaders.  There are no alpha dogs on this team, unfortunately.

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15 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

You guys can keep telling yourselves these teams are just “getting lucky” all you want, but they’re going to continue to “get lucky” until our players decide to play with some aggressiveness and physicality.  That’s just the game of basketball.

And I don’t see any reason to think that this team is going to turn into a scrappy team.  Last season proved how mentally weak they were, and that has obviously carried over into this season.  Despite all the talk, all the evidence indicates that RoJo, Juwan, and Newkirk don’t have what it takes to be leaders.  There are no alpha dogs on this team, unfortunately.

I’d say that Durham and Davis showed sparks of potential and played aggressively, but from a leadership standpoint, it will take them time.

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4 minutes ago, Danomatic said:

I’d say that Durham and Davis showed sparks of potential and played aggressively, but from a leadership standpoint, it will take them time.

Really liked their play last night, but they’re not going to be able to set the tone for the team this season.  Too much to expect a freshman Durham to play consistently this season, and Davis is another underclassman who doesn’t play on the perimeter and doesn’t have the ball in his hands.

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24 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

You guys can keep telling yourselves these teams are just “getting lucky” all you want, but they’re going to continue to “get lucky” until our players decide to play with some aggressiveness and physicality.  That’s just the game of basketball.

And I don’t see any reason to think that this team is going to turn into a scrappy team.  Last season proved how mentally weak they were, and that has obviously carried over into this season.  Despite all the talk, all the evidence indicates that RoJo, Juwan, and Newkirk don’t have what it takes to be leaders.  There are no alpha dogs on this team, unfortunately.

Speaking for me, I never said any teams were getting lucky. Regarding the players, I don't think any of them need to be leaders to be good players for us, on both ends, as all of them have been. I think Collin is the best candidate for team leader. And I do think the team can be scrappy, that's CAM's defensive coaching, and we're just 2 games in.

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20 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Speaking for me, I never said any teams were getting lucky. Regarding the players, I don't think any of them need to be leaders to be good players for us, on both ends, as all of them have been. I think Collin is the best candidate for team leader. And I do think the team can be scrappy, that's CAM's defensive coaching, and we're just 2 games in.

Yeah, the “lucky” comments were directed at those making excuses for the poor defense.

As for the mental makeup of the team, Fisch said it better than I can:

 

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6 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Yeah, the “lucky” comments were directed at those making excuses for the poor defense.

As for the mental makeup of the team, Fisch said it better than I can:

 

That is just pathetic. Two games into the season, and already kids seem to be giving up , or at least giving in to any negativity. Shows complete lack of leadership, if this is true. 

Hopefully, this can be turned around quickly. I think that this needs to come from the players, not CAM. Hartman is really missed now. 

If this group of upperclassmen can't change their mindsets relatively quickly, I am all for CAM just playing the young kids, getting them experience for the future, and basically not worrying how bad this season looks.

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Hoosier Fans !! Get a good hold of your EMOTIONS ,PLEASE !! This IU squad has the talent and it showed in the improvement from game 1 to game 2 !! Archie Miller and his assisstant coaches are going to figure this out !! I guarantee it !1 IU will be better in December than they are right now. Then , The Hoosiers will be better in January that they will be in December !\ I just feel is only going to be a SLOW learning process !! Do Not forget , Archie has to get all of that Tom Crean Style of play out our returning players minds !` ( And-I am positive he will with each game and each practice session !! ) I am sure that Archie will turn this thing around THIS SEASON !! BE PATIENT !! I really feel and see this team as being a team that will progress week by week !! The END product is gonna be BETTER than the current product ! BELIEVE , BELIEVE, BELIEVE !! It is gonna happen !! THE TALENT IS IN PLACE !!

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P.S. Collin Hartmann DID NOT PLAY IN EITHER [regular season] GAME ! Don Fisher says that he should recover 100 % and return to playing status soon !1  Hartman only took 3 SHOTS in his only game action versus the University of Indianapolis !! They were all THREE 3-point shots and he MADE all  THREE OF THEM !! A HEALTHY COLLIN HARTMANN makes IU a much better team in so many ways !! Hurry up and get healthy Collin , THE HOOSIERS NEED YOUR EXPERIENCE !!!!!!

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45 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

That is just pathetic. Two games into the season, and already kids seem to be giving up , or at least giving in to any negativity. Shows complete lack of leadership, if this is true. 

Hopefully, this can be turned around quickly. I think that this needs to come from the players, not CAM. Hartman is really missed now. 

If this group of upperclassmen can't change their mindsets relatively quickly, I am all for CAM just playing the young kids, getting them experience for the future, and basically not worrying how bad this season looks.

I think a narrative is being suggested and adopted. Nobody knows what was fueling the mindset of those players at the end of the game. If we can start piecing together a perspective based on *actual* commentary from the players, I might buy it.

I didn’t typically see lack of effort on the floor much. I saw people active on both ends of the floor, consistently. Lack of cohesiveness and lack of experience in the system, sure. 

Let me suggest some other possibilities for the players’ facial expressions and body language:

1.) Feeling they were better and more prepared than a nine-point win over Howard. Not being pleased with their execution based on how they thought they were doing practice.

2.) Feeling they were letting down Coach Miller and company. Knowing they are gonna get their asses handed to them in practice. 

3.) Already reeling from Collin’s absence, perhaps watching Juwan go down early threw a huge wrench into their plans and that bummed them out.

4.) Soggy brains. They have, no doubt, been in a crash course trying to retrain and relearn a brand new system and set of expectations. They might well just be inundated with information.

To assume something such as negativity leading to them giving up is such a huge leap and assumption, it’s just not fair. Not fair to the kids, the staff, or even to your own expectations as a fan. Two games into a brand new regime without our top three leading scorers from last years squad...I think people should pump the brakes on thinking the sky is already falling.

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1 hour ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Yeah, the “lucky” comments were directed at those making excuses for the poor defense.

As for the mental makeup of the team, Fisch said it better than I can:

 

I'm a little surprised Fisch said that. Not that he's wrong...just that Fisch is usually pretty close to the vest about stuff like that, particularly during the season.

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9 minutes ago, zerawkid said:

I think a narrative is being suggested and adopted. Nobody knows what was fueling the mindset of those players at the end of the game. If we can start piecing together a perspective based on *actual* commentary from the players, I might buy it.

I didn’t typically see lack of effort on the floor much. I saw people active on both ends of the floor, consistently. Lack of cohesiveness and lack of experience in the system, sure. 

Let me suggest some other possibilities for the players’ facial expressions and body language:

1.) Feeling they were better and more prepared than a nine-point win over Howard. Not being pleased with their execution based on how they thought they were doing practice.

2.) Feeling they were letting down Coach Miller and company. Knowing they are gonna get their asses handed to them in practice. 

3.) Already reeling from Collin’s absence, perhaps watching Juwan go down early threw a huge wrench into their plans and that bummed them out.

4.) Soggy brains. They have, no doubt, been in a crash course trying to retrain and relearn a brand new system and set of expectations. They might well just be inundated with information.

To assume something such as negativity leading to them giving up is such a huge leap and assumption, it’s just not fair. Not fair to the kids, the staff, or even to your own expectations as a fan. Two games into a brand new regime without our top three leading scorers from last years squad...I think people should pump the brakes on thinking the sky is already falling.

I don't think that the sky is falling, and my comments were not based on just my own perceptions. When Fisch says what he did, someone who is universally accepted by this board and the fan base in general as being as connected as anyone to the program, then you have to listen to what he says. As FK said above, Fisch is normally close to the vest on the internal workings of the program. For him to make this comment speaks volumes to me. 

I hope that one of your scenarios is the true picture. What I saw was a bunch of kids who couldn't even stand up to cheer on their teammates as they wrapped up the first win in CAM's IU tenure. Hell, not only did they not stand up, waive towels, or what have you, they just sat there. 

 

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