James Wiseman

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said:

Either that, or continuing the lawsuit would cause a lot more to be revealed.

That's implied in discussions... I am a lawyer after all, lol

[jefftheref]

1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

I.agree completely.  I think Memphis feels if this is all that comes out that's ok. Pay back the 11500 and move on. 

Where is he going to get the money to pay it back, Elvis? lol

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Early chatter from Bilas on ESPN is that Wisemen will likely have to pay back the $11,500 and may be suspended for 8-9 games.

What a crock.  We know that a lot of this aid never gets uncovered.  If I'm playing the game and seeing this worst-case scenario, I keep paying players and take the risk that most of them will get through.

If I'm Wiseman and I have to pay the money back in order to be eligible, I'm dropping out of school, hiring an agent, and heading over to IMG Academy or some place like that and just working out for the next 5 months prior to draft workouts. Not sure where a family could scratch together 11,500 to just drop. 

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

That's implied in discussions... I am a lawyer after all, lol

I still think you're really Paul George.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

31 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I still think you're really Paul George.  

Or maybe his dad?

[FKIM01]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

If I'm Wiseman and I have to pay the money back in order to be eligible, I'm dropping out of school, hiring an agent, and heading over to IMG Academy or some place like that and just working out for the next 5 months prior to draft workouts. Not sure where a family could scratch together 11,500 to just drop. 

Short-term loan that matures about the time James cashes his first NBA check later this year?

[5fouls]

What Penny and Wiseman did was obviously wrong, but any time the NCAA takes action against a player/school while UNC sits back and smirks about getting away with fake classes, I get pissed off.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

What Penny and Wiseman did was obviously wrong, but any time the NCAA takes action against a player/school while UNC sits back and smirks about getting away with fake classes, I get pissed off.  

Right there with you. The NCAA is completely incompetent, and they go after the little fish, not the big fish.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

If I'm Wiseman and I have to pay the money back in order to be eligible, I'm dropping out of school, hiring an agent, and heading over to IMG Academy or some place like that and just working out for the next 5 months prior to draft workouts. Not sure where a family could scratch together 11,500 to just drop. 

Exactly what I said in another thread. Penny and staff won't be divulging a quarter of their time now to developing a kid who will not play another minute for them. Kid is a consensus top 5 pick in the draft. Why waste another minute on college ball. There is no questions about the kids game etc...his potential and size alone mean he will probably be the #1 pick. His best interest is to get an agent whose company will give him plenty of money in advance to eat, workout, and focus individually on his game. He won't play another minute for Memphis.

[13th&Jackson]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

If I'm Wiseman and I have to pay the money back in order to be eligible, I'm dropping out of school, hiring an agent, and heading over to IMG Academy or some place like that and just working out for the next 5 months prior to draft workouts. Not sure where a family could scratch together 11,500 to just drop. 

But what about his college education?

[Zlinedavid]

We don't force baseball players to play college ball.  Yet the product quality of the College World Series isn't diminished.  Nor is the MLB product. 

Now that the G-League is a somewhat stable entity, the NBA needs to stop having its cake and eating it too.  Let kids like Wiseman jump straight into the pros.  If he ends up needing a year or two of seasoning in the minors, fine.  Doesn't mean he isn't talented. But if a kid opts to play in college, they can't enter the draft again until 2-3 years have passed.  Hell I think both products would improve.  You can get the kids that are able to play professionally there a year or two earlier, and the college game gets continuity and kids that want to be there 3-4 years, not just treating it as the required stepping stone. 

[Zlinedavid]

Just now, 13th&Jackson said:

But what about his college education?

[IU Scott]

15 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

We don't force baseball players to play college ball.  Yet the product quality of the College World Series isn't diminished.  Nor is the MLB product. 

Now that the G-League is a somewhat stable entity, the NBA needs to stop having its cake and eating it too.  Let kids like Wiseman jump straight into the pros.  If he ends up needing a year or two of seasoning in the minors, fine.  Doesn't mean he isn't talented. But if a kid opts to play in college, they can't enter the draft again until 2-3 years have passed.  Hell I think both products would improve.  You can get the kids that are able to play professionally there a year or two earlier, and the college game gets continuity and kids that want to be there 3-4 years, not just treating it as the required stepping stone. 

Nobody is forcing any of these kids to play college basketball either.  I agree let them go straight out of high school and use the baseball model where if they decide on college they stay 3 years.

[Zlinedavid]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Nobody is forcing any of these kids to play college basketball either. 

No, but in a way, It's kind of like a "Resign or be fired" type of situation: One alternative is so preferable vs the other that 99.9% of people are going to pick one vs the other. 

What are the other "alternatives" to college ball? Euro or Asian pro leagues.  Less media exposure, and potentially having holes in your game exposed.  Kid might look dominant against other high schoolers or even the majority of college players.  But put him up against a guy the caliber of a Juwan Morgan or Christian Watford (just examples, I know they never played internationally, examples of guys that aren't quite NBA level but still very talented), and the luster comes off a little. 

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said:

No, but in a way, It's kind of like a "Resign or be fired" type of situation: One alternative is so preferable vs the other that 99.9% of people are going to pick one vs the other. 

What are the other "alternatives" to college ball? Euro or Asian pro leagues.  Less media exposure, and potentially having holes in your game exposed.  Kid might look dominant against other high schoolers or even the majority of college players.  But put him up against a guy the caliber of a Juwan Morgan or Christian Watford (just examples, I know they never played internationally, examples of guys that aren't quite NBA level but still very talented), and the luster comes off a little. 

Guys can go directly to the G-League out of high school. They won't get the paycheck of an NBA player or the exposure of a college player, but is that the NCAA's fault?

 

[Zlinedavid]

9 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Guys can go directly to the G-League out of high school. They won't get the paycheck of an NBA player or the exposure of a college player, but is that the NCAA's fault?

 

If they enter the G-League, can they still enter the NBA Draft?

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, Zlinedavid said:

If they enter the G-League, can they still enter the NBA Draft?

I believe so. I think it would be like playing in any other post-HS grad league (NCAA, overseas, etc.). I'm not 100% on that, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works. 

[CTrojan88]

21 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Short-term loan that matures about the time James cashes his first NBA check later this year?

I am fairly confident that any bank in Memphis will loan him the money....:🙄

[MemphisHoosier]

On 11/14/2019 at 3:54 PM, dgambill said:

Exactly what I said in another thread. Penny and staff won't be divulging a quarter of their time now to developing a kid who will not play another minute for them. Kid is a consensus top 5 pick in the draft. Why waste another minute on college ball. There is no questions about the kids game etc...his potential and size alone mean he will probably be the #1 pick. His best interest is to get an agent whose company will give him plenty of money in advance to eat, workout, and focus individually on his game. He won't play another minute for Memphis.

Disagree.  He will play again for Memphis

[Zlinedavid]

10 hours ago, BGleas said:

I believe so. I think it would be like playing in any other post-HS grad league (NCAA, overseas, etc.). I'm not 100% on that, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works. 

Sounds viable, but here's the thing, and I don't disagree with it: the NBA just set up a filter on the next Leon Smith. If every kid that jumped early went to the D-League, some are going to get exposed. And that, of course, costs them that lucrative first round contract. The rookie may be a better athlete, but he'll be up against guys with potentially 3-4 years of professional experience and training regiments.

Play college ball for a year, you're still up against 18-20 year olds and don't get exposed, and at least you get one big contract.

Unfortunately, the only way to combat this is for the NCAA to make kids like this less desirable. One idea....make every scholarship count against the limit for two years. Now in a case like Romeo, it wouldn't have hurt us all that much. Maybe put a cap on 4 reductions per year or something. But make it to where the battle isn't for recruits, it's actually playing the game. It'll make recruiting kids that just want exposure less desirable.

[rico]

10 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

 

Unfortunately, the only way to combat this is for the NCAA to make kids like this less desirable. One idea....make every scholarship count against the limit for two years. Now in a case like Romeo, it wouldn't have hurt us all that much. Maybe put a cap on 4 reductions per year or something. But make it to where the battle isn't for recruits, it's actually playing the game. It'll make recruiting kids that just want exposure less desirable.

I heard somebody talking about this "scenario" a while back.  In theory it should work.

[Zlinedavid]

3 minutes ago, rico said:

I heard somebody talking about this "scenario" a while back.  In theory it should work.

At the very least, it would cripple the teams using a "reload" model. I don't think it's fair to make them count 4 years, because that isn't a realistic scenario to think every player is going to play 4 years. And this wouldn't apply to grad transfers or injured players, etc. But something to replicate the impact of imposing a 2-3 year "minimum stay" a la MLB/NFL. And taking 1 per year wouldn't be too much of an impact. A team that did that would basically be limiting themselves to 12 players, which is manageable.

But, coaches *cough*CalipariandK*cough* would need to think twice about taking 4 projected one and dones in a given year. That would limit them to 9 the following season.

[rico]

17 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

At the very least, it would cripple the teams using a "reload" model. I don't think it's fair to make them count 4 years, because that isn't a realistic scenario to think every player is going to play 4 years. And this wouldn't apply to grad transfers or injured players, etc. But something to replicate the impact of imposing a 2-3 year "minimum stay" a la MLB/NFL. And taking 1 per year wouldn't be too much of an impact. A team that did that would basically be limiting themselves to 12 players, which is manageable.

But, coaches *cough*CalipariandK*cough* would need to think twice about taking 4 projected one and dones in a given year. That would limit them to 9 the following season.

And with that it would spread the OAD talent throughout other schools...

[Drroogh]

12 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

Sounds viable, but here's the thing, and I don't disagree with it: the NBA just set up a filter on the next Leon Smith. If every kid that jumped early went to the D-League, some are going to get exposed. And that, of course, costs them that lucrative first round contract. The rookie may be a better athlete, but he'll be up against guys with potentially 3-4 years of professional experience and training regiments.

Play college ball for a year, you're still up against 18-20 year olds and don't get exposed, and at least you get one big contract.

Unfortunately, the only way to combat this is for the NCAA to make kids like this less desirable. One idea....make every scholarship count against the limit for two years. Now in a case like Romeo, it wouldn't have hurt us all that much. Maybe put a cap on 4 reductions per year or something. But make it to where the battle isn't for recruits, it's actually playing the game. It'll make recruiting kids that just want exposure less desirable.

I kind of like the idea of making scholarships count two years, I also like the idea of not giving Reload schools unlimited free rides on the APR and the Graduation Success Rates when the entire team leaves after 1 or 2 years. Got to say though I'm wondering about the kids that make the jump and don't make it? What if there was an opposite incentive? What if a kid goes to the G league and fails, what if the NCAA said one year or less in a pro semi pro environment you can come back to school, but you have to stay at least three years? "I'm not Crazy, I'm just a little unwell" Matchbox Twenty!

[HoosierJax]

James gets 12 game suspension