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I think the problem is forcing these big lineups. I realize we have depth with Smith, TJD, Brunk, Race and even Davis upfront, but these big lineups are bogging things down on both ends. Super small sample size, but this team plays best with a smaller lineup going with Smith and TJD at the forwards with any combination of Phinisee, Durham, Franklin and Hunter in the back court. That provides more shooting, better defense, and the ability to really push in transition  

Our bigger lineup is slower of foot defensively, causing lots of fouls which killed IU today, and lacks shooting offensively. You’re not going to win a lot of games in the Big Ten only hitting 3 three’s, and you’re not going to hit a lot of three’s with Brunk, TJD and Smith playing together. 

I hope we see less and less of it, especially when Green gets back. I know some want IU to go big and pound teams inside, but it’s not like our bigs are great scorers down low, they’re garbage guys. We need more athleticism and shooting. 

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16 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I think the problem is forcing these big lineups. I realize we have depth with Smith, TJD, Brunk, Race and even Davis upfront, but these big lineups are bogging things down on both ends. Super small sample size, but this team plays best with a smaller lineup going with Smith and TJD at the forwards with any combination of Phinisee, Durham, Franklin and Hunter in the back court. That provides more shooting, better defense, and the ability to really push in transition  

Our bigger lineup is slower of foot defensively, causing lots of fouls which killed IU today, and lacks shooting offensively. You’re not going to win a lot of games in the Big Ten only hitting 3 three’s, and you’re not going to hit a lot of three’s with Brunk, TJD and Smith playing together. 

I hope we see less and less of it, especially when Green gets back. I know some want IU to go big and pound teams inside, but it’s not like our bigs are great scorers down low, they’re garbage guys. We need more athleticism and shooting. 

Early on this might be the case, being persistent with it will lead to better defensive rotations, help and identity.  It's so early and your two main point guards and best defensive players missed a month+ of practice and in Green's case games.  Todays team is going to be much different once Rob gets his base back and Devonte is in the fold.  Trace and Race are both only going tonget better and Hunter is a month away from being back into game shape.  

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3 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

Early on this might be the case, being persistent with it will lead to better defensive rotations, help and identity.  It's so early and your two main point guards and best defensive players missed a month+ of practice and in Green's case games.  Todays team is going to be much different once Rob gets his base back and Devonte is in the fold.  Trace and Race are both only going tonget better and Hunter is a month away from being back into game shape.  

I agree, available bodies are part of the reason, but I think when Phinisee and a Green are 100% and Anderson is back, IU is at its best with two forwards and 3 guards or 2 guards/Hunter. 

It’s difficult to win in 2019 with 3 non-shooters on the floor. You can’t trade 2’s for 3’s anymore the way teams shoot the ball. I think in a perfect world (ie. everyone healthy) you want Phinisee, Green/Durham, Hunter, Smith, TJD. That’s the best lineup IMO. Then you have Brunk and Race as bigs off the bench, and Davis in emergencies or against the Wesson’s of the world, and you have Green/Durham, Franklin and Anderson at the guard/wings spots off the bench. 

I just firmly believe playing Smith, TJD and Brunk a ton of minutes together is a mistake, unless against specific teams that also play really big.  

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43 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Not sure I agree with your opening sentence. We had 3 frontcourt players who almost had double-doubles (TJD did, and Race finished 1 rebound shy, Justin 2 boards shy) and our 3 starting frontcourt players accounted for 37 of the 59 points starters scored. We won because of our frontcourt. If Al hadn't had a good game offensively, the guard's numbers wouldn't look so good. 

And while I like Franklin and see a ton of potential, I'm not sure he's a game changer just yet.

The only two players Portland State has who are 6’8 or taller are starting 6’8 center Sal Nuhu and 6’9 forward Trey Wood, a freshman who played 12 minutes.  That’s probably the worst frontcourt we’ll see all year, so I would hope our starting forwards would be able to score on them.  And 29 of those 37 points were scored by Smith and TJD, who are clearly our 2 best forwards and part of the small lineup that’s looked the best thus far.

Like I said, Brunk and Race should be key rotation players, and DeRon will get minutes.  But I don’t see them being as effective once we start playing real teams, and they’ll certainly be behind Phinisee, Durham, and hopefully Green as far as the best players on the team.  I see Hunter taking minutes from them as the season progresses as well.

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It’s so hard to say what the best lineup will be...we just have so many question marks because of injuries again. Al is making it hard to move him out of the starting lineup. I think it depends on matchups but I’d say Rob, Devonte, Justin, Trayce, and Brunk. With Rob, Devonte, Al, Justin, and Trayce seeing starts too. I do look for Jerome to find starts at the 3 later on and Al being that spark plug off the bench. When Devonte comes back it will limit Franklins minutes but that’s ok. As a freshman against elite opponents he will have some rough patches but I do think he will spell us some minutes. Good problem to have is having so many guys that deserve minutes.

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Why is everyone wanting to put Al on the bench?  At this moment, he's our best player.  Could TJD, Justin, or Devonte take that away from him as the season goes along?  Yes, that's a possibility.  But, Al has clearly improved his game, yet is still being looked at as a 3 star recruit.  

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45 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I agree, available bodies are part of the reason, but I think when Phinisee and a Green are 100% and Anderson is back, IU is at its best with two forwards and 3 guards or 2 guards/Hunter. 

It’s difficult to win in 2019 with 3 non-shooters on the floor. You can’t trade 2’s for 3’s anymore the way teams shoot the ball. I think in a perfect world (ie. everyone healthy) you want Phinisee, Green/Durham, Hunter, Smith, TJD. That’s the best lineup IMO. Then you have Brunk and Race as bigs off the bench, and Davis in emergencies or against the Wesson’s of the world, and you have Green/Durham, Franklin and Anderson at the guard/wings spots off the bench. 

I just firmly believe playing Smith, TJD and Brunk a ton of minutes together is a mistake, unless against specific teams that also play really big.  

Its going to be interesting to see as the season goes on.  Marketing would tell guys like Brunk and Race can stretch the floor.  It has been said Smith and TJD have worked on it.  Once it starts playing out it can IU play with a "tall" lineup that is versatile?  It would have to be proved.  Davis is the big question mark early on.  Is he begind because of conditioning, defense, attitude, natural depth?  He will change the lineup as well.

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10 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Why is everyone wanting to put Al on the bench?  At this moment, he's our best player.  Could TJD, Justin, or Devonte take that away from him as the season goes along?  Yes, that's a possibility.  But, Al has clearly improved his game, yet is still being looked at as a 3 star recruit.  

Durham and Smith are the clear cut two best players on the team through two games.  When Phinisee and Green get healthy, I see Durham, Smith, and TJD all sliding down a spot and Franklin and Brunk going to the bench.

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4 hours ago, BEKA said:

Against Portland State? Sure, those stats look great against a Kenpom rated 277 squad. Those numbers aren't going to hold up going forward against actual competition though if we don't correct things in a hurry. 

You really can’t draw this conclusion. Go look up basically every other high major - MSU, Duke whatever, vs a team like this and compare their offensive stats. They won’t be better, generally. The offense was good 

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I think the problem is forcing these big lineups. I realize we have depth with Smith, TJD, Brunk, Race and even Davis upfront, but these big lineups are bogging things down on both ends. Super small sample size, but this team plays best with a smaller lineup going with Smith and TJD at the forwards with any combination of Phinisee, Durham, Franklin and Hunter in the back court. That provides more shooting, better defense, and the ability to really push in transition  

Our bigger lineup is slower of foot defensively, causing lots of fouls which killed IU today, and lacks shooting offensively. You’re not going to win a lot of games in the Big Ten only hitting 3 three’s, and you’re not going to hit a lot of three’s with Brunk, TJD and Smith playing together. 

I hope we see less and less of it, especially when Green gets back. I know some want IU to go big and pound teams inside, but it’s not like our bigs are great scorers down low, they’re garbage guys. We need more athleticism and shooting. 

Fully agree 

and think Green being out is why.

highly doubt we see this kind of 3-forward lineup when we have a healthy Green and Rob (obviously not 100 percent yet coming off bench)

to go with Al, Hunter (also not yet fully back), Franklin ...

commented in the game the guards only had like 4 shots well into the game - offensive balance was missing - cleared up when Al started hitting his shots 

realistically Green will be the lead scorer or second lead scorer, balance needs a healthy group of our starting guards / wings 

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22 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Durham and Smith are the clear cut two best players on the team through two games.  When Phinisee and Green get healthy, I see Durham, Smith, and TJD all sliding down a spot and Franklin and Brunk going to the bench.

You’re leaving Hunter out. He’s not back yet. But when he comes in with the smaller lineup that’s when the team takes off, on both sides of the ball, and his shooting is already pretty obvious 

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15 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

You’re leaving Hunter out. He’s not back yet. But when he comes in with the smaller lineup that’s when the team takes off, on both sides of the ball, and his shooting is already pretty obvious 

Yeah, Hunter’s definitely gonna get a lot of meaningful minutes, and I’m hopeful he can become one of our primary scorers when he gets his legs back under him.  But with Durham and Smith playing the way they are, and Green’s expected role as our primary scoring guard, I’m just not quite sure when/if Hunter will enter the starting lineup (barring injury).  I think the most likely scenario in which he takes a starting spot is if Green underperforms.

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The reality is nobody knows who Archie will start when or if everyone is healthy. I personally think he will want more size and length on the court which means only two of the 4 primary guards will play together. That said if a team is playing small Al or Franklin could play the 3. Just because Al has played well doesn’t mean he can’t come off the bench. I suspect Green will be coming off the bench his first few games back and depending on how lineups perform a consistent lineup will be figured out by about 4 games into his return.

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7 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Archie needs to relax.  It's all part of being head coach at a school that is passionate about the sport.  The head coach at Dayton may not have to answer those questions, but that coach does not have as many zeroes in his contract either.   

I get it. How many times does he need to answer hows TJD and Hunter doing in practice.

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13 hours ago, RoadToZion said:

Yeah they are pretty terrible honestly. I was pretty disappointed today.

Positives: TJD and Race. Hunter making a couple 3's was nice also. 

I'm going to watch again today since I was majority distracted trying to watch.  My quick thoughts are the intensity was just not there.   Like an 7/10.  Had a few chances to really put them away and didn't.  Maybe we were working on some new wrinkles bit the offense got clustered up a few times.  I do think that team has the personality of their coach and will not role over for anyone.  He mouthed something up into our crowd on the way out the door.  Their point guard will probably be their conference player of the year, hated seeing him go off but he's legit.  We let them get some easy baskets off some some action that got our defenders too deep.  B1G would abuse that.  Brunk sat most of second half.  I'll watch again and give better thoughts but that was initial.  

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16 minutes ago, Bob said:

I didn’t watch the game. So I have nothing to add. Hope to catch it on BTN sometime. From just some quick glances at what’s being said. No one seems excited. It’s really early so a win is a win. 

We went to the game yesterday.....it was a lifeless game...

  • PSU full court slowed down the tempo of our O.
  • it felt like there were a lot of whistles....there was never a flow to the game
  • they made their shots
  • We need a 3-point presence....Hunter and Durham had moments but nobody else even looked to shoot 3's
  • maybe we are playing too big and need to get the 3 ball rolling
  • honestly PSU wanted this more....their bench was into the game ours looked lifeless
  • Good news it still was basically a 12-14 point game, even after they made a ton of shots
  • also, we had a lot of substitutions.  IDK if Archie is looking for which groups he likes, but it also seems to challenge the flow
  • again, it was the most lifeless game i have seen at AH
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17 hours ago, IU Scott said:

RP

Green

Al

Smith

TJD

I still have to think this ^^^  Which if true is encouraging because Green isn't even playing yet and Rob isn't 100%.  Otherwise I would say a close win at home vs. Portland St. is a little concerning.  A healthy Green and RP should make our offense look much better I would think.  

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