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Thoughts from a B1G ASSISTANT COACH


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I recently spoke with a good friend of mine that happens to be an assistant coach in the B1G

We only talk a couple times a year but when we do it's about family and basketball. Lots of very insightful and interesting info most I cant share but here are some things that I can. (Some of these pretty obvious) interesting to hear these things from someone who lives it

 

1. The B1G is loaded this year not many easy wins 

2.  Thinks Izzo is the best coach in league. 

3. Thinks Holtman will be a great coach. Said he would not be surprised to see Holtman be the guy to replace Coach K. Thinks he is that good

4. Not sure why IU is not at top.of conference most years. Lots of great things to say about what we have to offer 

5. Top 5 every year should include 4 of these 5 and a surprise team every once in a while. IU, PU, MSU MICH, OSU

6.  Coaches they would like to see leave the conference. Izzo, Holtman, Howard

7. Thinks Howard will follow in foot steps on UK, Memphis, Duke etc. The big time recruits will come.

8. Most under appreciate coach Matt Painter.

9. Fans most likely to eat their own, Indiana

10. This one hurts. Coaches they want to see stay at their school. Underwood, Collins, Miller

He believes IU can be a top 5 national program every year with the right guy. Take it all for what its worth, thinks our fan base hurts us from getting a coach that can get us back to prominence.  Its one of our biggest strengths but a bigger hindrance.  Also the administration hurts our chances of getting that guy.

With all that said, CAM is highly respected and a very good coach but does not see him as the long term answer. 

Not posting to start anything negative just thought you might like to hear what 1 coach thinks.

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I completely agree about the fan base...I believe that we have done significant damage to the recruiting of players and coaches and I think that we have actually made life so difficult for our players that from time to time they have struggled to play up to their ability knowing that they are getting crushed by the people who are supposed to be fans...

several posters will say that I am being soft and that we should be even tougher and make even more noise I am sure, but I know their arguments and think them to be wrong...

I will also agree that Holtman is a tremendous coach and another in the line of Matta and Beilein that will make us wonder if we missed out on them...My guess (zero info) is that it would have been harder for Holtmann to move to Bloomington than to Columbus...I think going to IU would have seemed more like a betrayal to Butler and he would have had a hard time pulling that trigger

 

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22 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I recently spoke with a good friend of mine that happens to be an assistant coach in the B1G

We only talk a couple times a year but when we do it's about family and basketball. Lots of very insightful and interesting info most I cant share but here are some things that I can. (Some of these pretty obvious) interesting to hear these things from someone who lives it

 

1. The B1G is loaded this year not many easy wins 

2.  Thinks Izzo is the best coach in league. 

3. Thinks Holtman will be a great coach. Said he would not be surprised to see Holtman be the guy to replace Coach K. Thinks he is that good

4. Not sure why IU is not at top.of conference most years. Lots of great things to say about what we have to offer 

5. Top 5 every year should include 4 of these 5 and a surprise team every once in a while. IU, PU, MSU MICH, OSU

6.  Coaches they would like to see leave the conference. Izzo, Holtman, Howard

7. Thinks Howard will follow in foot steps on UK, Memphis, Duke etc. The big time recruits will come.

8. Most under appreciate coach Matt Painter.

9. Fans most likely to eat their own, Indiana

10. This one hurts. Coaches they want to see stay at their school. Underwood, Collins, Miller

He believes IU can be a top 5 national program every year with the right guy. Take it all for what its worth, thinks our fan base hurts us from getting a coach that can get us back to prominence.  Its one of our biggest strengths but a bigger hindrance.  Also the administration hurts our chances of getting that guy.

With all that said, CAM is highly respected and a very good coach but does not see him as the long term answer. 

Not posting to start anything negative just thought you might like to hear what 1 coach thinks.

10. This one hurts. Coaches they want to see stay at their school. Underwood, Collins, Miller

He believes IU can be a top 5 national program every year with the right guy. Take it all for what its worth, thinks our fan base hurts us from getting a coach that can get us back to prominence.  Its one of our biggest strengths but a bigger hindrance.  Also the administration hurts our chances of getting that guy.

With all that said, CAM is highly respected and a very good coach but does not see him as the long term answer. 

 

Booooooo!!!!

......

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29 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I recently spoke with a good friend of mine that happens to be an assistant coach in the B1G

We only talk a couple times a year but when we do it's about family and basketball. Lots of very insightful and interesting info most I cant share but here are some things that I can. (Some of these pretty obvious) interesting to hear these things from someone who lives it

 

1. The B1G is loaded this year not many easy wins 

2.  Thinks Izzo is the best coach in league. 

3. Thinks Holtman will be a great coach. Said he would not be surprised to see Holtman be the guy to replace Coach K. Thinks he is that good

4. Not sure why IU is not at top.of conference most years. Lots of great things to say about what we have to offer 

5. Top 5 every year should include 4 of these 5 and a surprise team every once in a while. IU, PU, MSU MICH, OSU

6.  Coaches they would like to see leave the conference. Izzo, Holtman, Howard

7. Thinks Howard will follow in foot steps on UK, Memphis, Duke etc. The big time recruits will come.

8. Most under appreciate coach Matt Painter.

9. Fans most likely to eat their own, Indiana

10. This one hurts. Coaches they want to see stay at their school. Underwood, Collins, Miller

He believes IU can be a top 5 national program every year with the right guy. Take it all for what its worth, thinks our fan base hurts us from getting a coach that can get us back to prominence.  Its one of our biggest strengths but a bigger hindrance.  Also the administration hurts our chances of getting that guy.

With all that said, CAM is highly respected and a very good coach but does not see him as the long term answer. 

Not posting to start anything negative just thought you might like to hear what 1 coach thinks.

I have always said that our fan base can be as a big of a hindrance as they are good for the program

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I've said for years that our administration is the biggest problem.  You must get rid of Fred & Shoulders before you ever have any chance of a splash hire.  Their egos would never allow it.  In their minds they are the show and would never allow another coach that is bigger than the program.  Of course any coach that wins big here would obviously be the most important person at the University.  They know this and that's why we got Crean and Archie.  Two yes men who are both nice guys but average coaches and will never be elite.  Pin this post.

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4 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

To be honest I never felt it had much impact but maybe it does

Also what did this coach say the reason he did not think Archie will be long term.  I have always felt that our fans hurt us getting a top notch coach because why would they leave what they have to come here.  They probably are in a good place with job security so why come to a place where some of the fan base will be calling for your head in year two,

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3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I've said for years that our administration is the biggest problem.  You must get rid of Fred & Shoulders before you ever have any chance of a splash hire.  Their egos would never allow it.  In their minds they are the show and would never allow another coach that is bigger than the program.  Of course any coach that wins big here would obviously be the most important person at the University.  They know this and that's why we got Crean and Archie.  Two yes men who are both nice guys but average coaches and will never be elite.  Pin this post.

That is a bunch of non sense especially about Glass

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First of all I am guilty as any one in our fan base on this topic but I think it might hurt the program as well.  It is that our fans are stuck in our history and tradition and can't see that we need to change with the times. Anytime a coach even thinks about making changes with the team like the candy stripes or names on the jersey the fans fight back to the change.  Also when there are talks about making changes or even building a new arena our fan base fights back.  maybe it is time for our fans to see we are part of the problem and there are things that needs to get into the 21st century. 

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Wrong Scott.  And do not ever blame the fan base.  The fans are the way we are because we've sucked for so long and it's 100% on the administration.  Everyone in the world knew after the Kent St loss that Davis should've been fired. Many were calling for Thad Matta early on in the Davis tenure.  We all wanted Beilein over Sampson but were overruled by our inept administration.  We wanted Brad Stevens after Creans 3rd year.  Most wanted Mack or Marshall or Holtmann over Archie.  

And UK has the worst fans in all of sports.  That never stops them from getting their guy.  Again this is all on the most incompetent administration in college sports history.

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25 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Also what did this coach say the reason he did not think Archie will be long term.  I have always felt that our fans hurt us getting a top notch coach because why would they leave what they have to come here.  They probably are in a good place with job security so why come to a place where some of the fan base will be calling for your head in year two,

His biggest reason is because CAM is not Bob Knight.

My take is Kelvin Sampson would have gotten us out of darkest part of the shadow of Knight. Our fans could embrace a lot of what KS was selling. If we could have gotten 5 years out of KS, IU would still be a top destination job

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Nothing really earth shattering. The B10 is tough this year. Izzo is a good coach. Holtmann is a rising star. Howard is going to snare some big name recruits. Matt Painter is underappreciated (FWIW, I agree). IU's fan base has some self destructive aspects.

Here's a question though....this is obviously a different viewpoint than most of us, and unbiased at that. Is your friend a person who could see himself working for Archie Miller?

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2 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Wrong Scott.  And do not ever blame the fan base.  The fans are the way we are because we've sucked for so long and it's 100% on the administration.  Everyone in the world knew after the Kent St loss that Davis should've been fired. Many were calling for Thad Matta early on in the Davis tenure.  We all wanted Beilein over Sampson but were overruled by our inept administration.  We wanted Brad Stevens after Creans 3rd year.  Most wanted Mack or Marshall or Holtmann over Archie.  

And UK has the worst fans in all of sports.  That never stops them from getting their guy.  Again this is all on the most incompetent administration in college sports history.

A) Very few UK fans wanted Tubby Smith when Pitino left.

B) After that, yep, fans got their guy in Billy Gillespie.

So the only time recently that "They've gotten their guy" that worked is Teflon John, and there have been rumblings for three seasons that they wouldn't mind if he left for the NBA.

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2 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Wrong Scott.  And do not ever blame the fan base.  The fans are the way we are because we've sucked for so long and it's 100% on the administration.  Everyone in the world knew after the Kent St loss that Davis should've been fired. Many were calling for Thad Matta early on in the Davis tenure.  We all wanted Beilein over Sampson but were overruled by our inept administration.  We wanted Brad Stevens after Creans 3rd year.  Most wanted Mack or Marshall or Holtmann over Archie.  

And UK has the worst fans in all of sports.  That never stops them from getting their guy.  Again this is all on the most incompetent administration in college sports history.

Don't know about that.  Archie was one of the hotest young coaches out there. OSU wanted Archie over Holtman.  Right now, the biggest difference is Archie is stubborn with his defense where Holtman will change it up.  

Mack is one of my favorite coaches, and if you didn't know he credits much of his style to the Miller family.

Once Archie is able to recruit a pg that plays we will see his teams take off.  All the coaches mentioned have pg's and there is no secret to that.

I also have the access to talk basketball with coaches and Archie is highly respected and many think his program is a sleeping giant.  Different perspective.

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31 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Nothing really earth shattering. The B10 is tough this year. Izzo is a good coach. Holtmann is a rising star. Howard is going to snare some big name recruits. Matt Painter is underappreciated (FWIW, I agree). IU's fan base has some self destructive aspects.

Here's a question though....this is obviously a different viewpoint than most of us, and unbiased at that. Is your friend a person who could see himself working for Archie Miller?

There's a lot more I cant post . I never knew but there are a lot of people that read our board not associated with IU. Some really good stories over the years that will be left to tell another days many years from now

To answer your question no I could not see him on CAM staff. CTC yes because of timing but now I would think the next move if any is closer to home and as a HC maybe

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15 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Wrong Scott.  And do not ever blame the fan base.  The fans are the way we are because we've sucked for so long and it's 100% on the administration.  Everyone in the world knew after the Kent St loss that Davis should've been fired. Many were calling for Thad Matta early on in the Davis tenure.  We all wanted Beilein over Sampson but were overruled by our inept administration.  We wanted Brad Stevens after Creans 3rd year.  Most wanted Mack or Marshall or Holtmann over Archie.  

And UK has the worst fans in all of sports.  That never stops them from getting their guy.  Again this is all on the most incompetent administration in college sports history.

I can blame whoever I want and  some of you might want to get your head out of the sand and look in the mirror.  Not saying it is the only reason we are not what we use to be but we are a big part of it.  Like Bilingsley  said Cam is not RMK and that is the problem is that we compare every new coach to him and no one will ever meet that standard.  Fans like you who call for the coaches head after a year or to is part of the problem as well because no coach who is very successful needs to put up with this fan base.  I know it is your mentality from the rivals board that comes out because anyone who questions anything about the fans you strike back because you don't want to see that you are part of the problem.

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11 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

Don't know about that.  Archie was one of the hotest young coaches out there. OSU wanted Archie over Holtman.  Right now, the biggest difference is Archie is stubborn with his defense where Holtman will change it up.  

Mack is one of my favorite coaches, and if you didn't know he credits much of his style to the Miller family.

Once Archie is able to recruit a pg that plays we will see his teams take off.  All the coaches mentioned have pg's and there is no secret to that.

I also have the access to talk basketball with coaches and Archie is highly respected and many think his program is a sleeping giant.  Different perspective.

Agreed. Mack credits the Millers. I also know some coaches in D1 - one very personally. Archie was the hottest coach out there when we hired him. Contrary to some people's belief...he was on our list before Mack and Holtman were...and we were right to take him before. If either Holtman or Mack were on our sidelines right now, I don't think much changes. IU has to have a complete culture change - almost a paradigm shift after 25 years of being mediocre...neither OSU or Louisville is dealing with that.  

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34 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

Don't know about that.  Archie was one of the hotest young coaches out there. OSU wanted Archie over Holtman.  Right now, the biggest difference is Archie is stubborn with his defense where Holtman will change it up.  

Mack is one of my favorite coaches, and if you didn't know he credits much of his style to the Miller family.

Once Archie is able to recruit a pg that plays we will see his teams take off.  All the coaches mentioned have pg's and there is no secret to that.

I also have the access to talk basketball with coaches and Archie is highly respected and many think his program is a sleeping giant.  Different perspective.

I agree with just about everything you are saying. I just dont know if fans will give this giant time to wake up. If so I could CAM being here a very long time. 

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34 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

Don't know about that.  Archie was one of the hotest young coaches out there. OSU wanted Archie over Holtman.  Right now, the biggest difference is Archie is stubborn with his defense where Holtman will change it up.  

Mack is one of my favorite coaches, and if you didn't know he credits much of his style to the Miller family.

Once Archie is able to recruit a pg that plays we will see his teams take off.  All the coaches mentioned have pg's and there is no secret to that.

I also have the access to talk basketball with coaches and Archie is highly respected and many think his program is a sleeping giant.  Different perspective.

I agree with just about everything you are saying. I just dont know if fans will give this giant time to wake up. If so I could CAM being here a very long time. 

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6 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I agree with just about everything you are saying. I just dont know if fans will give this giant time to wake up. If so I could CAM being here a very long time. 

Did this coach say who is out there who he thinks would be a great long tem coach for IU.  Like others have said Archie was the top candidate out there the year we hired him so it is not like we took a flier on some unknown coach.  I have said he was not even in my top 4 when we hired him but he deserves our patience to see if he can do this job.

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10 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I agree with just about everything you are saying. I just dont know if fans will give this giant time to wake up. If so I could CAM being here a very long time. 

Not questioning you at all here Billingsley, more just looking for any clarification you can provide. The assistant said that Archie is a coach that other conference coaches want to see stay at IU, which is clearly a negative viewpoint of Archie, or at least means the other coaches aren't worried about IU with Archie. But then the main reason given was simply that he's not Bob Knight? Either there is more you're not sharing, which is probably the case and completely fine, or it's not that the coaches don't think Archie is really good, it's just that they think whoever the coach is at IU the fans and the admin will basically ruin it?

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20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Did this coach say who is out there who he thinks would be a great long tem coach for IU.  Like others have said Archie was the top candidate out there the year we hired him so it is not like we took a flier on some unknown coach.  I have said he was not even in my top 4 when we hired him but he deserves our patience to see if he can do this job.

He does not care enough about IU to think about who could be. 

There are a lot of midwest teams going hard after the 21 instate guys. That class may have a huge impact on the conference and maybe even some jobs. For better or worse

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I gotta believe that if you have a coach who is afraid of fan backlash (in any program) is not going to be the coach who'd lead us back to prominence. Look, I'm not saying I could handle that kind of backlash - I'd probably go in the corner and cry. But it takes a special person to do that. 

If a coach is not able to handle that type of adversity, how is he going to instill the toughness needed to consistently win in his players? 

If there's one positive we can take away from CAM (so far), is it seems this type of stuff rolls off his back. 

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55 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I've said for years that our administration is the biggest problem.  You must get rid of Fred & Shoulders before you ever have any chance of a splash hire.  Their egos would never allow it.  In their minds they are the show and would never allow another coach that is bigger than the program.  Of course any coach that wins big here would obviously be the most important person at the University.  They know this and that's why we got Crean and Archie.  Two yes men who are both nice guys but average coaches and will never be elite.  Pin this post.

I agree with the bolded. Pretty much disagree with the rest of your post, but agree with the bolded. I posted in the Lander thread yesterday about some of IU's recruiting over the last 17 or so years. Since 2003 (as far back as 24/7 goes), IU has had 2 top 50 recruits in the same class exactly ONE time. We've had 3 top 100 recruits in the same class 4 times and two of those were pre-Crean. 

That's not a coach problem, that's an administration problem. There have been some pretty interesting things come out over the last year about the program. Archie being shocked at some of the facilities, shocked at the budget on some things, and news in the Rabjohn's article or podcast last year that IU's compliance is basically out to trip the coaches up as opposed to working with them to navigate the rules. 

I am 100% convinced that Archie is just as good as Holtman and Mack, and frankly people dismiss that Holtman walked into a much better situation, but that's a debate for another day. But, the huge, huge difference is the schools and the administrations that Holtman and Mack work for, as opposed to what Archie is dealing with. 

My opinion, based on some of the things that have come out over the last year or so, and Crean's comments when he exited about not being on the same page as the admin, is that compared to Holtman and Mack Archie is running a program with one hand tied behind his back. 

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7 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I agree with just about everything you are saying. I just dont know if fans will give this giant time to wake up. If so I could CAM being here a very long time. 

I’m 100% ok giving him time but there has to be real progress and I don’t see it. 
 

A) Players have changed but team still prone to just checking out for long stretches of time 

B) Either hold teams to their worst shooting night or give them their best 

C) 2+ years in we have only 1 person who can run the point leaving us a **** show when than 1 is hurt. 

D)  We continue to play players and line ups that aren’t working.  

E) This reminds me too much of Crean, hodge podge lineups, effort optional. Archie was supposed to be different. 

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