Thoughts from a B1G ASSISTANT COACH

[Billingsley99]

22 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Never want a cheater at IU and if that means no championships so be it.

Like Zline said there is a big difference between cheating and gray area.

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

The compliance dept at Indiana does not allow you to look for the loophole let alone find it

This is the big issue. IU coaches, whether Crean or Miller, are recruiting and operating with one hand tied behind their back. The compliance department should be working with the staff to do whatever is possible to get recruits, while making sure IU stays out of trouble. 

They should not be operating in the shadows trying to catch the coach cheating. I'd be willing to bet that Holtman and Mack have administrations that help them navigate these waters, while at IU Archie is trying to avoid them. 

It doesn't matter how large the budget is. 

[Zlinedavid]

Just now, Billingsley99 said:

The compliance dept at Indiana does not allow you to look for the loophole let alone find it

Let me put it this way....I'd never condone tactics that are outright illegal.  But THERE is the problem with the administration.  To me, that's what the compliance department should be doing.  If the sign says "Don't climb over the wall", then that is the rule, and the compliance department should tell the coaches "Don't climb over the wall".  They should also tell the coaches that "There's no rule about walking around the wall or digging under the wall though". 

[Billingsley99]

28 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This is the big issue. IU coaches, whether Crean or Miller, are recruiting and operating with one hand tied behind their back. The compliance department should be working with the staff to do whatever is possible to get recruits, while making sure IU stays out of trouble. 

They should not be operating in the shadows trying to catch the coach cheating. I'd be willing to bet that Holtman and Mack have administrations that help them navigate these waters, while at IU Archie is trying to avoid them. 

It doesn't matter how large the budget is. 

Hammer meet nail.  If you dont think other coaches use that against us, we are in complete denial.

[Zuckerkorn]

1 hour ago, Hoosier987 said:

Agreed. Mack credits the Millers. I also know some coaches in D1 - one very personally. Archie was the hottest coach out there when we hired him. Contrary to some people's belief...he was on our list before Mack and Holtman were...and we were right to take him before. If either Holtman or Mack were on our sidelines right now, I don't think much changes. IU has to have a complete culture change - almost a paradigm shift after 25 years of being mediocre...neither OSU or Louisville is dealing with that.  

And this is the thing I've harped on in the past: Exactly who are the grand slam coaches that could have been (or could be today) hired when there's an opening? The absolute cream of the crop, top 5 or so aren't going to leave for any school.  The only time that's happened that I can recall is Ol' Roy going to UNC, but that had to have been influenced strongly by his life-long connections there (and the fact that some "improprieties" were beginning to be mentioned at KU).  So, hiring a new coach is going to be a roll of the dice to an extent.  OSU wanted Miller, but we hired him before Matta retired.  ILL had Miller on their high wish list.  We weren't hindered in hiring a coach and got one of our prime targets.  Now, how successful CAM would be was not guaranteed and the jury is still deliberating. My take is that Stevens will never go back to college ball and I don't have reason to think Donovan will either.

Funny how it was mentioned that UK got the guy they wanted in Cal.  But did they?  If memory serves, their fans were ALL in on Donovan.  Prior to hiring Calipari, they seemed to collectively see him as a cheater (like most of the rest of the basketball world still does).

There is no doubt that when RMK was fired the administration totally botched the job.  Defaulted to an inexperienced assistant who primarily on staff as a recruiter, then buckled to players and ex-players (Fife, Benson) in naming him as the permanent coach.  Waited to long, in denial that Davis was not the guy, then let the University president make a critical hire based on factors unrelated to basketball.  That exploded in our faces and we were left to completely resurrect the program.  CTC  turned out to be a good hire, at least to right the ship and get us back to respectability but unfortunately just wasn't capable of consistency.  Now we have Archie Miller.  The results thus far have been below expectations, but he is doing a lot of the right things that Crean (and Sampson) didn't - building with a balance, focus on in-state recruits, getting good character guys that aren't going to embarrass the program.

[loviubb]

Billingsley thanks for the post lot of different thoughts out there. Great discussions Thanks again for posting this and may you and your have a blessed holiday season

[dbmhoosier]

21 minutes ago, JugRox said:

Something from a big booster: "The IU basketball program was a brand new Ferrari in the 1980s. Unfortunately, since the administration won't invest in the program, the IU basketball program is still a 1980s Ferrari trying to keep up with modern super cars."

Glass is NOT the problem.....but the people above him.      

If so then Fred should march into Mcrobbies office immediately.  Demand that he be allowed to do his job as he wants and spend the B1G network money as he sees fit.  If not I'm resigning and immediately doing a sit down with the Indianapolis Star.  I'm going to tell the entire state how you are ruining their basketball program.  I guarantee you our fan base would have a boomerang up his rear by the end of the week.  

The same thing Greenspan should've done when the racist Herbert overruled his Beilein hire and insisted on hiring a cheater.  He should've immediately resigned and done an interview telling the whole state exactly what Herbert was doing.  Herbert wouldn't have lasted a week.

Fred may not be the problem but he's definitely not part of the solution either.  And when was the last time we had an AD with any spine or backbone at all?

[IU Scott]

I guess I would have to no better what the definition of what gray area is before I would say if I want IU to play in that area.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said:

If so then Fred should march into Mcrobbies office immediately.  Demand that he be allowed to do his job as he wants and spend the B1G network money as he sees fit.  If not I'm resigning and immediately doing a sit down with the Indianapolis Star.  I'm going to tell the entire state how you are ruining their basketball program.  I guarantee you our fan base would have a boomerang up his rear by the end of the week.  

The same thing Greenspan should've done when the racist Herbert overruled his Beilein hire and insisted on hiring a cheater.  He should've immediately resigned and done an interview telling the whole state exactly what Herbert was doing.  Herbert wouldn't have lasted a week.

Fred may not be the problem but he's definitely not part of the solution either.  And when was the last time we had an AD with any spine or backbone at all?

Luckily for you McRobbie is out in a year any way

[rico]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I guess I would have to no better what the definition of what gray area is before I would say if I want IU to play in that area.

Scott, do you ever drive over the speed limit?

[IU Scott]

Just now, rico said:

Scott, do you ever drive over the speed limit?

Yep but that does not explain to me what would be considered a gray area to the NCAA.  I just know I don't want us to be part of the investigation around the shoe companies where they are brokering kids to your school.

[OGIUAndy]

2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

I recently spoke with a good friend of mine that happens to be an assistant coach in the B1G

We only talk a couple times a year but when we do it's about family and basketball. Lots of very insightful and interesting info most I cant share but here are some things that I can. (Some of these pretty obvious) interesting to hear these things from someone who lives it

 

1. The B1G is loaded this year not many easy wins 

2.  Thinks Izzo is the best coach in league. 

3. Thinks Holtman will be a great coach. Said he would not be surprised to see Holtman be the guy to replace Coach K. Thinks he is that good

4. Not sure why IU is not at top.of conference most years. Lots of great things to say about what we have to offer 

5. Top 5 every year should include 4 of these 5 and a surprise team every once in a while. IU, PU, MSU MICH, OSU

6.  Coaches they would like to see leave the conference. Izzo, Holtman, Howard

7. Thinks Howard will follow in foot steps on UK, Memphis, Duke etc. The big time recruits will come.

8. Most under appreciate coach Matt Painter.

9. Fans most likely to eat their own, Indiana

10. This one hurts. Coaches they want to see stay at their school. Underwood, Collins, Miller

He believes IU can be a top 5 national program every year with the right guy. Take it all for what its worth, thinks our fan base hurts us from getting a coach that can get us back to prominence.  Its one of our biggest strengths but a bigger hindrance.  Also the administration hurts our chances of getting that guy.

With all that said, CAM is highly respected and a very good coach but does not see him as the long term answer. 

Not posting to start anything negative just thought you might like to hear what 1 coach thinks.

He’s definitely got one thing right, we eat our own. 

[IUCrazy2]

44 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

In defense of CAM and to be 100 percent fair I will add this.  At Indiana you dont get to play much in the gray area. Its black and white for most part. Most of the coaches that we think are elite want to play DEEP in the gray area. The coaches in the B1G feared KS for that reason. I didn't want to share it but that is why they want CAM to stay. There is a fear that with enough losing our fan base would back a cheater and with everything that our state and school has to offer look out.

 

I would back doing whatever Duke, UNC, Michigan, OSU, Kentucky, etc. are doing right now.  If everyone is doing it, I don't view it as cheating anymore.

[Mike]

Agree

[Zlinedavid]

7 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Funny how it was mentioned that UK got the guy they wanted in Cal.  But did they?  If memory serves, their fans were ALL in on Donovan.  Prior to hiring Calipari, they seemed to collectively see him as a cheater (like most of the rest of the basketball world still does).

You're right.  But after Donovan gave them a flat "No", Teflon John became Saint Cal the Savior.  A Lexington news team had a camera pinned on a door in the Memphis athletic department for the better part of two days. 

And trust me, the UK fanbase doesn't give a fiddler's f*#$ about cheating.

[Mike]

Add Louisville to the list!

[Billingsley99]

21 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

He’s definitely got one thing right, we eat our own. 

I remember once when our compliance dept turned us in because an ast coach walked through the gym and asked a player how his test went.  Reported us for contact during a dead period 

[JugRox]

14 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

If so then Fred should march into Mcrobbies office immediately.  Demand that he be allowed to do his job as he wants and spend the B1G network money as he sees fit.  If not I'm resigning and immediately doing a sit down with the Indianapolis Star.  I'm going to tell the entire state how you are ruining their basketball program.  I guarantee you our fan base would have a boomerang up his rear by the end of the week.  

The same thing Greenspan should've done when the racist Herbert overruled his Beilein hire and insisted on hiring a cheater.  He should've immediately resigned and done an interview telling the whole state exactly what Herbert was doing.  Herbert wouldn't have lasted a week.

Fred may not be the problem but he's definitely not part of the solution either.  And when was the last time we had an AD with any spine or backbone at all?

You have no idea how any of this works, the AD can't "demand" anything from the president or board and then threaten to quit. And do you think Glass hasn't already demanded that? Where do you think the baseball stadium, football stadium upgrades, etc all came from????? NONE of that happens without Glass...... 

And good luck finding a decent AD afterwards......

But go ahead and blame Glass and see what rolls in after him.

[Zuckerkorn]

31 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Not going to elaborate but special treatment 

Hmmm.  Without asking for any further elaboration, I can say I can see that possibility.

Romeo was the right guy at the wrong time.  I may get slammed for it and I think he's a good kid with superior basketball ability, but his presence on the roster ended up being not entirely beneficial.  The real pisser is we needed shooters and he needed to be the guy, but wasn't able to deliver consistently (injury, inexperience, over rated, whatever combination of these).  I think we still lack shooting, and that along with failure to have multiple PGs on the roster are two areas I think CAM has fallen short with.  Also, in my very limited knowledge of the technical details of basketball, I do have serious doubts about the viability of the pack line defense.  To paraphrase what was said, when it works it can dictate the game, when it doesn't work it fails spectacularly.  But back to the quoted part, it's interesting that all the sniping about Justin Smith's attitude (which I participated in as well) don't seem to be on display like they were last season.  Again, hmmmmm.

[rico]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Yep but that does not explain to me what would be considered a gray area to the NCAA.  I just know I don't want us to be part of the investigation around the shoe companies where they are brokering kids to your school.

Let's say IU is after a prized recruit whose Father is also his HS coach.  IU offers the kid a scholly but offers his Dad a job as an assistant coach.  Gray area.

[Zuckerkorn]

3 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

You're right.  But after Donovan gave them a flat "No", Teflon John became Saint Cal the Savior.  A Lexington news team had a camera pinned on a door in the Memphis athletic department for the better part of two days. 

And trust me, the UK fanbase doesn't give a fiddler's f*#$ about cheating.

Exactamundo.

And regards to gray areas, cheating, etc.. The gray areas are almost obsolete today.  You can cheat your ass off, have assistants and coaches get caught discussing paying players, and at best there will be no consequences for the better part of a decade and most probably either the most modest penalties or none at all.

[Billingsley99]

23 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Exactamundo.

And regards to gray areas, cheating, etc.. The gray areas are almost obsolete today.  You can cheat your ass off, have assistants and coaches get caught discussing paying players, and at best there will be no consequences for the better part of a decade and most probably either the most modest penalties or none at all.

Unfortunately you are correct and it's been going on forever and everyone knows it but NCAA does nothing about it.

Many years ago I was in the basketball video room with coach Ellenberger and Felling stopped in the give Norm a hard time. A few minutes later RMK comes in yelling said some recruit was going to take a visit to Michigan he told Felling get on the phone tell the recruit we are no.longer interested.  When players visited UK and Michigan and UCLA Knight knew we could not afford them

[Hoosier987]

As others discussed - and as I have mentioned in prior years -  McRobbie is an issue. He doesn't see any benefit in American collegiate athletics.  The quicker the guy is out...the better our athletic dept will be. 

[Zuckerkorn]

3 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Unfortunately you are correct and it's been going on forever and everyone knows it but NCAA does nothing about it.

Many years ago I was in the basketball video room with coach Ellenberger and Felling stopped in the give Norm a hard time. A few minutes later RMK comes in yelling said some recruit was going to take a visit to Michigan he told Felling get on the phone tell the recruit we are no.longer interested.  When players visited UK and Michigan and UCLA Knight knew we could not afford them

OT.  But was Norm Ellenberger a cool guy to be around?  He always struck me as something of a calming influence on Knight (as much as that is possible).

[IUCrazy2]

20 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Hmmm.  Without asking for any further elaboration, I can say I can see that possibility.

Romeo was the right guy at the wrong time.  I may get slammed for it and I think he's a good kid with superior basketball ability, but his presence on the roster ended up being not entirely beneficial.  The real pisser is we needed shooters and he needed to be the guy, but wasn't able to deliver consistently (injury, inexperience, over rated, whatever combination of these).  I think we still lack shooting, and that along with failure to have multiple PGs on the roster are two areas I think CAM has fallen short with.  Also, in my very limited knowledge of the technical details of basketball, I do have serious doubts about the viability of the pack line defense.  To paraphrase what was said, when it works it can dictate the game, when it doesn't work it fails spectacularly.  But back to the quoted part, it's interesting that all the sniping about Justin Smith's attitude (which I participated in as well) don't seem to be on display like they were last season.  Again, hmmmmm.

I blamed Romeo last year and was told he was not the problem, he was great, etc., etc. but I agree with you.  The team dynamic improved when he sat at the end of the year and you don't see the same issue this year with some of the other guys who got blame....