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Thoughts from a B1G ASSISTANT COACH

Billingsley99

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Billingsley99

Billingsley99

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4 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

OT.  But was Norm Ellenberger a cool guy to be around?  He always struck me as something of a calming influence on Knight (as much as that is possible).

Norm was the best. After the Maui invitational he got back into town late and stopped by the restaurant I worked at. He was with his much much much younger and much much much hotter girlfriend and they got a bottle of nice wine. He asked me if I could cork it back up since they were exhausted and only had a small amount. I said that is illegal but you might want to keep this cork as a souvenir and here is a bag for your left overs. He got the point and left me $100 tip.  He single handily got me involved into coaching.   

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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15 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Unfortunately you are correct and it's been going on forever and everyone knows it but NCAA does nothing about it.

Many years ago I was in the basketball video room with coach Ellenberger and Felling stopped in the give Norm a hard time. A few minutes later RMK comes in yelling said some recruit was going to take a visit to Michigan he told Felling get on the phone tell the recruit we are no.longer interested.  When players visited UK and Michigan and UCLA Knight knew we could not afford them

DD has talked on his show about Jacque Vaughn wanting to visit Um and when RMK heard about it he dropped Vaughn

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Hoosierinbham

Hoosierinbham

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24 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Exactamundo.

And regards to gray areas, cheating, etc.. The gray areas are almost obsolete today.  You can cheat your ass off, have assistants and coaches get caught discussing paying players, and at best there will be no consequences for the better part of a decade and most probably either the most modest penalties or none at all.

The NCAA obviously has no interest in damaging their product related to cheating by elite programs. Between the UNC academic scandal to all of the public discussion of payments to players/parents by most of the Blue Bloods, this is become the wild west.  It seems in recruiting,  we are a gunfighter without a gun in elite level recruitments.

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zerawkid

zerawkid

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3 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

I recently spoke with a good friend of mine that happens to be an assistant coach in the B1G

We only talk a couple times a year but when we do it's about family and basketball. Lots of very insightful and interesting info most I cant share but here are some things that I can. (Some of these pretty obvious) interesting to hear these things from someone who lives it

 

1. The B1G is loaded this year not many easy wins 

2.  Thinks Izzo is the best coach in league. 

3. Thinks Holtman will be a great coach. Said he would not be surprised to see Holtman be the guy to replace Coach K. Thinks he is that good

4. Not sure why IU is not at top.of conference most years. Lots of great things to say about what we have to offer 

5. Top 5 every year should include 4 of these 5 and a surprise team every once in a while. IU, PU, MSU MICH, OSU

6.  Coaches they would like to see leave the conference. Izzo, Holtman, Howard

7. Thinks Howard will follow in foot steps on UK, Memphis, Duke etc. The big time recruits will come.

8. Most under appreciate coach Matt Painter.

9. Fans most likely to eat their own, Indiana

10. This one hurts. Coaches they want to see stay at their school. Underwood, Collins, Miller

He believes IU can be a top 5 national program every year with the right guy. Take it all for what its worth, thinks our fan base hurts us from getting a coach that can get us back to prominence.  Its one of our biggest strengths but a bigger hindrance.  Also the administration hurts our chances of getting that guy.

With all that said, CAM is highly respected and a very good coach but does not see him as the long term answer. 

Not posting to start anything negative just thought you might like to hear what 1 coach thinks.

So, did this coach care to elaborate on precisely why he doesn't think Archie is the guy? Also, did he have comments about why, exactly, our current administration is a big hinderance? 

It's all well and good to have an opinion, I'm just curious as to what sort of information and perspective this person utilized as the basis for his comments.

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Billingsley99

Billingsley99

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Just now, zerawkid said:

So, did this coach care to elaborate on precisely why he doesn't think Archie is the guy? Also, did he have comments about why, exactly, our current administration is a big hinderance? 

It's all well and good to have an opinion, I'm just curious as to what sort of information and perspective this person utilized as the basis for his comments.

Lot of those things have been mentioned during the thread.  Biggest takeaway is IU fans hold the program to a certain accountability of success but our admin and compliance does not allow us to fight fairly. Think are fans are the biggest game changer both positive and negative. 

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Zlinedavid

Zlinedavid

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19 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Norm was the best. After the Maui invitational he got back into town late and stopped by the restaurant I worked at. He was with his much much much younger and much much much hotter girlfriend and they got a bottle of nice wine. He asked me if I could cork it back up since they were exhausted and only had a small amount. I said that is illegal but you might want to keep this cork as a souvenir and here is a bag for your left overs. He got the point and left me $100 tip.  He single handily got me involved into coaching.   

And right there is a perfect example of "gray area".

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macomb hoosier

macomb hoosier

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Just now, Zlinedavid said:

And right there is a perfect example of "gray area".

Yep, but like the speeding example, these are on the other side of the analogy. Regarding basketball? I would appreciate the b'ball folk identifying these more clearly.

I certainly have different tolerances (like speeding). For instance, I think coaches should be allowed to be with the team more, that the team should be able to have full practice together sooner, etc. Some benefits like buying a kid a meal or a coat, I'm ok with. Paying kids and rigging them with bogus classes is lame. At that point, I'd rather just watch NBA.

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FW_Hoosier

FW_Hoosier

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1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

In defense of CAM and to be 100 percent fair I will add this.  At Indiana you dont get to play much in the gray area. Its black and white for most part. Most of the coaches that we think are elite want to play DEEP in the gray area. The coaches in the B1G feared KS for that reason. I didn't want to share it but that is why they want CAM to stay. There is a fear that with enough losing our fan base would back a cheater and with everything that our state and school has to offer look out.

 

This is where the fanbase and administration really holds the program back.  The passion and high expectations of the fanbase are not the problem.  As a younger IU fan, there is nothing more frustrating than the “Indiana Way” BS that comes from the older segment of the fanbase, and this mindset permeates the administration as well.

If the fanbase and administration won’t let the coach run the program like the other blue bloods do, it will never be a blue blood again.  I’m sure Archie would like to be running the program like his brother Sean, and it’s a shame he won’t be allowed to.  Could very well end up costing him his job in the end.

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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I did not want to start a new thread but I wanted to start a poll but I don't know if you can do it in a thread that is already opened.  Here is my question and would like to hear your responses.  How far do you think our administration should allow the coach to run his program

1) Don't want them to allow coaches to go in the gray area or cheat in any way

2) Let them play in the gray area but not over the line into cheating

3) let them do whatever it takes to win no matter how much it cost.

I am at maybe 1.5 because I don't want cheating in any way but need to know more what it means to be in the gray area.

 

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rico

rico

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14 minutes ago, macomb hoosier said:

Yep, but like the speeding example, these are on the other side of the analogy. Regarding basketball? I would appreciate the b'ball folk identifying these more clearly.

I certainly have different tolerances (like speeding). For instance, I think coaches should be allowed to be with the team more, that the team should be able to have full practice together sooner, etc. Some benefits like buying a kid a meal or a coat, I'm ok with. Paying kids and rigging them with bogus classes is lame. At that point, I'd rather just watch NBA.

Ok.  Let's say that we are going after a recruit.  His family doesn't have much money.  We offer him a scholly and a booster steps in and set his Mom and Dad up with a new house in Bloomington.  Another booster steps in a gets his Father a good paying job.  Yet another booster steps in and gets his Mother a good paying job.  Ya get the point of the gray areas?

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5 championships

5 championships

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I agree with the bolded. Pretty much disagree with the rest of your post, but agree with the bolded. I posted in the Lander thread yesterday about some of IU's recruiting over the last 17 or so years. Since 2003 (as far back as 24/7 goes), IU has had 2 top 50 recruits in the same class exactly ONE time. We've had 3 top 100 recruits in the same class 4 times and two of those were pre-Crean. 

That's not a coach problem, that's an administration problem. There have been some pretty interesting things come out over the last year about the program. Archie being shocked at some of the facilities, shocked at the budget on some things, and news in the Rabjohn's article or podcast last year that IU's compliance is basically out to trip the coaches up as opposed to working with them to navigate the rules. 

I am 100% convinced that Archie is just as good as Holtman and Mack, and frankly people dismiss that Holtman walked into a much better situation, but that's a debate for another day. But, the huge, huge difference is the schools and the administrations that Holtman and Mack work for, as opposed to what Archie is dealing with. 

My opinion, based on some of the things that have come out over the last year or so, and Crean's comments when he exited about not being on the same page as the admin, is that compared to Holtman and Mack Archie is running a program with one hand tied behind his back. 

Right on BGleas! I think Archie was the right hire. Holtmann is really good but walked into a lot better situation than Archie. Archie has had a lot to clean up and now he just can’t catch breaks in terms of playing with a healthy team the last could years. 

In terms of the administration and Mcrobbie when does it end or get better? When Mcrobbie finally leaves? 

 

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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3 minutes ago, rico said:

Ok.  Let's say that we are going after a recruit.  His family doesn't have much money.  We offer him a scholly and a booster steps in and set his Mom and Dad up with a new house in Bloomington.  Another booster steps in a gets his Father a good paying job.  Yet another booster steps in and gets his Mother a good paying job.  Ya get the point of the gray areas?

To me that is not a gray area and we shouldn't get involved with this kind of activity

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hoosierhoosier

hoosierhoosier

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I am 100% convinced that Archie is just as good as Holtman and Mack, and frankly people dismiss that Holtman walked into a much better situation, but that's a debate for another day. But, the huge, huge difference is the schools and the administrations that Holtman and Mack work for, as opposed to what Archie is dealing with. 

 

Michigan, UL, Ohio State, and IU got coaches at about the same time....BUT only IU HAD to get a new coach b/c the previous coach was LOSING.   All the other programs had better on the court coaches....Not all these coaches are starting the race at the same spot.  I am still convinced our upperclassmen are show ponies and not work horses

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Zlinedavid

Zlinedavid

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

If you are caught buying a house for a recruit or family that programs needs the death penalty

We weren't buying the house. Neither was the booster. They simply "facilitated" the deal.  Payments are being made from an account in the recruits' parents' name. 

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slojoe

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2 hours ago, Zuckerkorn said:

OT.  But was Norm Ellenberger a cool guy to be around?  He always struck me as something of a calming influence on Knight (as much as that is possible).

I was in elementary school (mid-60's) when Norm Ellenberger was head coach of the New Haven Bulldogs HS team.  I didn't have much contact with him,  but on Saturday mornings we got to play in the high school gym in organized games.  The only thing I remember is that he didn't allow any team or individual to press in the back court as the ball was brought up court. 

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