Thoughts from a B1G ASSISTANT COACH

[5fouls]

Apparently Louisville did the whole hooker thing wrong.

The coaching staff should have hired the ladies for a motivational speaking gig (coaches are allowed to have 3rd parties talk to their team).  Nothing illegal about that.

And, then, during the motivational speech, if one or more of the ladies finds one or more of the players attractive, she could ask him out on a 'date'.  Nothing illegal about dating either.

So, two perfectly legal actions, could provide the same result as one that is not only against NCAA rules, but is actually illegal in Kentucky (unless the two parties are related).  

Boy, did UL screw that up.

Bonus question for the board.  What topic could the ladies have been hired to speak about?

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

We weren't buying the house. Neither was the booster. They simply "facilitated" the deal.  Payments are being made from an account in the recruits' parents' name. 

I still don't think that is the way IU should do business because the parents are still not paying for the house.  this is plain bribery for services which should never happen.  The NCAA should grow a pair and start giving programs the death penalties and never allow coaches to ever coach again who break these rules.

[milehiiu]

1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

Norm was the best. After the Maui invitational he got back into town late and stopped by the restaurant I worked at. He was with his much much much younger and much much much hotter girlfriend and they got a bottle of nice wine. He asked me if I could cork it back up since they were exhausted and only had a small amount. I said that is illegal but you might want to keep this cork as a souvenir and here is a bag for your left overs. He got the point and left me $100 tip.  He single handily got me involved into coaching.   

That's a neat story.  Thanks for sharing it with us.

[Zlinedavid]

Just now, IU Scott said:

I still don't think that is the way IU should do business because the parents are still not paying for the house.  this is plain bribery for services which should never happen.  The NCAA should grow a pair and start giving programs the death penalties and never allow coaches to ever coach again who break these rules.

Here's the problem: As a legal entity, the NCAA does not have subpoena power.  You can say that "The parents aren't paying for the house", but there's a paper trail proving otherwise.  All the parents have to do is show a bank statement listing them as the account holders with transactions matching the house payments, and the NCAA cannot subpoena either the parents or the bank for further records (to establish when the account was set up, initial deposits, source of deposits, etc).  They also cannot file suit in a court of law on this issue, as no damages have been incurred nor have any laws been broken. 

The NCAA can't definitively prove that a violation has occurred in this case.  Sure, the writing might be on the wall, but you usually can't bring an entire wall into a court/hearing room. 

[rico]

5 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Here's the problem: As a legal entity, the NCAA does not have subpoena power.  You can say that "The parents aren't paying for the house", but there's a paper trail proving otherwise.  All the parents have to do is show a bank statement listing them as the account holders with transactions matching the house payments, and the NCAA cannot subpoena either the parents or the bank for further records (to establish when the account was set up, initial deposits, source of deposits, etc).  They also cannot file suit in a court of law on this issue, as no damages have been incurred nor have any laws been broken. 

The NCAA can't definitively prove that a violation has occurred in this case.  Sure, the writing might be on the wall, but you usually can't bring an entire wall into a court/hearing room. 

Stop it Z, you are really confusing Scott...lol

[Zlinedavid]

Just now, rico said:

Stop it Z, you are really confusing Scott...lol

It's ok.  I confuse myself half the time.

[Zlinedavid]

24 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Bonus question for the board.  What topic could the ladies have been hired to speak about?

Entrepreneurship (Starting and operating your own business as an independent contractor)

Law (Representing one's self in court)

Financial Management (Safe transportation of large amounts of $1 bills. )

Medicine (What penicillin can and can't treat)

Dressing For Success (How clear heels are the ultimate universal accessory)

[Zlinedavid]

24 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Apparently Louisville did the whole hooker thing wrong.

The coaching staff should have hired the ladies for a motivational speaking gig (coaches are allowed to have 3rd parties talk to their team).  Nothing illegal about that.

And, then, during the motivational speech, if one or more of the ladies finds one or more of the players attractive, she could ask him out on a 'date'.  Nothing illegal about dating either.

So, two perfectly legal actions, could provide the same result as one that is not only against NCAA rules, but is actually illegal in Kentucky (unless the two parties are related).  

Boy, did UL screw that up.

And today we found out, 5fouls actually works for the UK NCAA Compliance Office. 

[morganmonroe]

17 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Entrepreneurship (Starting and operating your own business as an independent contractor)

Law (Representing one's self in court)

Financial Management (Safe transportation of large amounts of $1 bills. )

Medicine (What penicillin can and can't treat)

Dressing For Success (How clear heels are the ultimate universal accessory)

I regret that I have but one upvote to give for this post.

[morganmonroe]

18 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Entrepreneurship (Starting and operating your own business as an independent contractor)

Law (Representing one's self in court)

Financial Management (Safe transportation of large amounts of $1 bills. )

Medicine (What penicillin can and can't treat)

Dressing For Success (How clear heels are the ultimate universal accessory)

Did Pitino already speak?  "Boys, if this bothers your conscience then just use mine."

[IUFLA]

All very interesting conversation, and a lot of valid points. But for me the bottom line is, to build the kind of program I think most of us want, we have to let Archie go to the point where his first recruiting class (now sophomores) are seniors. 

It's a slow process, and I know we have some impatient fans, but I believe it's a big mistake if we pull the trigger before then.

[macomb hoosier]

1 hour ago, rico said:

Ok.  Let's say that we are going after a recruit.  His family doesn't have much money.  We offer him a scholly and a booster steps in and set his Mom and Dad up with a new house in Bloomington.  Another booster steps in a gets his Father a good paying job.  Yet another booster steps in and gets his Mother a good paying job.  Ya get the point of the gray areas?

(To me) That doesn't sound like the b'ball equivalent of "speeding" or letting someone take their bottle with them.

[rico]

15 minutes ago, macomb hoosier said:

(To me) That doesn't sound like the b'ball equivalent of "speeding" or letting someone take their bottle with them.

I gave you a gray area...and it happens all over.

[Maedhros]

52 minutes ago, hoosierhoosier said:

Michigan, UL, Ohio State, and IU got coaches at about the same time....BUT only IU HAD to get a new coach b/c the previous coach was LOSING.   All the other programs had better on the court coaches....Not all these coaches are starting the race at the same spot.  I am still convinced our upperclassmen are show ponies and not work horses

It's perhaps telling of Archie's lack of success at Indiana that so many narratives keep forming to explain why he hasn't gotten us there yet. This is one such example. Make no mistake, Thad Matta was fired for performance. OSU had dropped from 2nd to 5th, 6th, 7th and 10th place in the B1G since 2013. His last team finished 17-15 overall, 7-11 in the Big Ten, and failed to make the NIT. The year before, when Indiana was winning the Big Ten, OSU was a three seed in the NIT. Recruiting had also dried up; the incoming 2017 class only had one commit, legacy Kaleb Wesson, and he had pledged two years prior. The entire five-man 2015 class was gone from campus. Matta's health was a consideration to be sure, and led the AD to doubt Matta would be able to right the ship, but make no mistake, the program was definitely headed in the wrong direction.

 2017 was the first year Brendan Quinn ran the Unofficial Big Ten Media Poll. Ohio St was selected 11th, two spots behind Indiana; they finished the year 15-3 and 2nd in the conference. If Archie had a year like that in his first season he'd be hailed as a conquering hero. His supporters rightly praise him for finishing 9-9 that season and 6th in the conference, ahead of what was projected. How strange, then, that I keep hearing how Holtmann's even greater accomplishments are a product of the situation he inherited.

[Zlinedavid]

26 minutes ago, morganmonroe said:

Did Pitino already speak?  "Boys, if this bothers your conscience then just use mine."

That's a good one.  Everyone knows Pitino hasn't had a conscience since 1989. 

[Zlinedavid]

26 minutes ago, macomb hoosier said:

(To me) That doesn't sound like the b'ball equivalent of "speeding" or letting someone take their bottle with them.

Light grey or dark grey is still grey. 

[macomb hoosier]

4 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Light grey or dark grey is still grey. 

[IUaic]

48 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Entrepreneurship (Starting and operating your own business as an independent contractor)

Law (Representing one's self in court)

Financial Management (Safe transportation of large amounts of $1 bills. )

Medicine (What penicillin can and can't treat)

Dressing For Success (How clear heels are the ultimate universal accessory)

Great List! I would add a couple:

Critical Thinking (How to deal with a woman who doesn't say No and won't take No for an answer)

Polymer Chemistry (Evaluate which elastomer has the best protection against STD's and pregnancy)

Psychology/Order of Protection (Dealing with stalkers and ex's - right 5Fouls?)

Genealogy (Finding the founding father and his sister or cousin of Kentucky)

 

[JugRox]

35 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

It's perhaps telling of Archie's lack of success at Indiana that so many narratives keep forming to explain why he hasn't gotten us there yet. This is one such example. Make no mistake, Thad Matta was fired for performance. OSU had dropped from 2nd to 5th, 6th, 7th and 10th place in the B1G since 2013. His last team finished 17-15 overall, 7-11 in the Big Ten, and failed to make the NIT. The year before, when Indiana was winning the Big Ten, OSU was a three seed in the NIT. Recruiting had also dried up; the incoming 2017 class only had one commit, legacy Kaleb Wesson, and he had pledged two years prior. The entire five-man 2015 class was gone from campus. Matta's health was a consideration to be sure, and led the AD to doubt Matta would be able to right the ship, but make no mistake, the program was definitely headed in the wrong direction.

 2017 was the first year Brendan Quinn ran the Unofficial Big Ten Media Poll. Ohio St was selected 11th, two spots behind Indiana; they finished the year 15-3 and 2nd in the conference. If Archie had a year like that in his first season he'd be hailed as a conquering hero. His supporters rightly praise him for finishing 9-9 that season and 6th in the conference, ahead of what was projected. How strange, then, that I keep hearing how Holtmann's even greater accomplishments are a product of the situation he inherited.

Former 5 star recruit Bates-Diop didn't play in the 2016-2017 season for Matta. In 2017-2018, Junior Bates-Diop was given to Holtman his first year who averaged 20 points a game, was named B10 player of the year, was an All American,  and was then drafted by the NBA. Who exactly was Miller given? lol   

Who else was Holtman given by Matta? Andre Wesson and Kaleb Wesson both signed with Matta.....not Holtman. Who did Crean give to Miller? Durham, Moore, and Smith.

OSU was 8 and f*&%ing 12 last year in the B10 and played IU to get into the NCAA. If IU wins that game, IU is in and OSU is out. 

You are seriously comparing what Matta left and what Crean left?????

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I did not want to start a new thread but I wanted to start a poll but I don't know if you can do it in a thread that is already opened.  Here is my question and would like to hear your responses.  How far do you think our administration should allow the coach to run his program

1) Don't want them to allow coaches to go in the gray area or cheat in any way

2) Let them play in the gray area but not over the line into cheating

3) let them do whatever it takes to win no matter how much it cost.

I am at maybe 1.5 because I don't want cheating in any way but need to know more what it means to be in the gray area.

 

I don't know that this is really the right question. It's not so much 'do you want to cheat or not', it's how willing is the administration (athletic department, compliance, etc.) to help the coaches. 

Someone brought up the analogy about a mountain. This is just my perception based off some of the things that have come out, but my perception is that if Archie approaches a mountain (a big recruit) but all the signs say "no going over the mountain" then Archie has to turn around and go home because if he finds another way past the mountain then IU compliance is going to nail him. If I remember correctly, the Rabjohn's podcast or article basically said the athletic department and compliance people are not aligned and don't even really communicate. 

At other schools, the coach gets with the compliance department and asks if he really can't go over the mountain. The compliance department says, "right, you can't go over the mountain, but we found a way to go under it or around it and neither raises a red flag". 

 

[cybergates]

5 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

I've said for years that our administration is the biggest problem.  You must get rid of Fred & Shoulders before you ever have any chance of a splash hire.  Their egos would never allow it.  In their minds they are the show and would never allow another coach that is bigger than the program.  Of course any coach that wins big here would obviously be the most important person at the University.  They know this and that's why we got Crean and Archie.  Two yes men who are both nice guys but average coaches and will never be elite.  Pin this post.

[Long Duk Dong]

3 hours ago, zerawkid said:

So, did this coach care to elaborate on precisely why he doesn't think Archie is the guy? Also, did he have comments about why, exactly, our current administration is a big hinderance? 

It's all well and good to have an opinion, I'm just curious as to what sort of information and perspective this person utilized as the basis for his comments.

It sounds like Indiana did what Notre Dame did to it's football program. They put a 'restrictor plate' on the program. Its what ran Lou Holtz out of South Bend in the mid nineties.

Ever wonder why ND never gets guys like Jerome Bettis, Ricky Watters, Chris Zorich, Bryant Young after Holtz left? The admissions won't let guys like that in any more. They want to keep the program under their thumb 

Indiana put the 'restrictor plate' on after Knight left.

[Zlinedavid]

3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I did not want to start a new thread but I wanted to start a poll but I don't know if you can do it in a thread that is already opened.  Here is my question and would like to hear your responses.  How far do you think our administration should allow the coach to run his program

1) Don't want them to allow coaches to go in the gray area or cheat in any way

2) Let them play in the gray area but not over the line into cheating

3) let them do whatever it takes to win no matter how much it cost.

I am at maybe 1.5 because I don't want cheating in any way but need to know more what it means to be in the gray area.

 

 

51 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don't know that this is really the right question. It's not so much 'do you want to cheat or not', it's how willing is the administration (athletic department, compliance, etc.) to help the coaches. 

Someone brought up the analogy about a mountain. This is just my perception based off some of the things that have come out, but my perception is that if Archie approaches a mountain (a big recruit) but all the signs say "no going over the mountain" then Archie has to turn around and go home because if he finds another way past the mountain then IU compliance is going to nail him. If I remember correctly, the Rabjohn's podcast or article basically said the athletic department and compliance people are not aligned and don't even really communicate. 

At other schools, the coach gets with the compliance department and asks if he really can't go over the mountain. The compliance department says, "right, you can't go over the mountain, but we found a way to go under it or around it and neither raises a red flag". 

 

It's almost like interpreting the Constitution. 

Philosophy 1: Unless it says I can do it, I can't.
Philosophy 2: Unless it says I can't do it, I can.

IU Athletics are operating under philosophy 1.  Most of our direct competitors are operating under philosophy 2, at minimum. 

If the rule is you can't give a recruit a bagel with peanut butter, give him a bagel with almond butter.  If the rule is you can't give a recruit a bagel with a topping, give him the bagel in one room, and conveniently in the next room, have the marketing department set up a new "blind preference survey" with Jif. 

[hoosiermd]

4 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

 

It's almost like interpreting the Constitution. 

Philosophy 1: Unless it says I can do it, I can't.
Philosophy 2: Unless it says I can't do it, I can.

IU Athletics are operating under philosophy 1.  Most of our direct competitors are operating under philosophy 2, at minimum. 

If the rule is you can't give a recruit a bagel with peanut butter, give him a bagel with almond butter.  If the rule is you can't give a recruit a bagel with a topping, give him the bagel in one room, and conveniently in the next room, have the marketing department set up a new "blind preference survey" with Jif. 

Shouldn't you first find out which variety of peanut butter the recruit likes and then set up the blind preference survey? 

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

 

It's almost like interpreting the Constitution. 

Philosophy 1: Unless it says I can do it, I can't.
Philosophy 2: Unless it says I can't do it, I can.

IU Athletics are operating under philosophy 1.  Most of our direct competitors are operating under philosophy 2, at minimum. 

If the rule is you can't give a recruit a bagel with peanut butter, give him a bagel with almond butter.  If the rule is you can't give a recruit a bagel with a topping, give him the bagel in one room, and conveniently in the next room, have the marketing department set up a new "blind preference survey" with Jif. 

I guess a better question I could have asked is how far are you willing for the program to go to win