FW_Hoosier Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, JugRox said: 11 PPG as a Sophmore and 10 PPG while being hurt the next year. sure, whatever makes you feel better lol and who exactly is comparable to what Miller was left? lol So you’re saying that Bates-Diop averaged 1-2 more ppg than Josh Newkirk and you think that supports your point... Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierMatty Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 Holtmann had more talent and it wasn't difficult for that team to adapt to his style. The cupboard was bare for Archie and inherited a program where defense and taking of the ball was an after thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JugRox Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: So you’re saying that Bates-Diop averaged 1-2 more ppg than Josh Newkirk and you think that supports your point... Lol. You are comparing 5 star Bates-Diop to.......NEWKIRK???? LOL Newkirk lost his playing time at Pitt as a Sophmore....lol Sure kid.....Newkirk was as good as Bates-Diop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 Just now, JugRox said: You are comparing 5 star Bates-Diop to.......NEWKIRK???? LOL Newkirk lost his playing time at Pitt as a Sophmore....lol You’re the one who brought up ppg to try to prove how good he was... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, JugRox said: So, you are basing what Holtmann did on “Preseason Polls” and Internet forums? Thats air tight....can’t argue with that. Partially I am basing it on that. Guilty as charged. Is depending on “your after the fact” observations better than the BT coaches poll, SI, ESPN, BT media, every idiotic poster (like us ) that posted prior to that season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JugRox Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: You’re the one who brought up ppg to try to prove how good he was... lol https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/josh-newkirk-1.html https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/keita-bates-diop-1.html Newkirk never averaged 10 points a game. Bates-Diop put up 20 a game as a junior. want to try again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, JugRox said: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/josh-newkirk-1.html Newkirk never averaged 10 points a game. Bates-Diop put up 20 a game as a junior. want to try again? You mean senior... And who was his coach when he put up those numbers? Which was the whole point of this conversation to begin with. Nice try, but you should probably just take the L and move on... Lol. Edit: In before “He WaS A REdShiRT JUnioR” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JugRox Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: You mean senior... And who was his coach when he put up those numbers? Which was the whole point of this conversation to begin with. Nice try, but you should probably just take the L and move on... Lol. You do realize he got hurt and given an extra year? And didn’t get to play for Matta his real junior year because of injuries and put up 11 PPG as a Sophmore? Nah, he was some 3 star nobody that Holtmann turned into a stud. JUST HOLTMANN....NO ONE ELSE. Without Holtmann he probably just quits the team, right? If Newkirk played for Holtmann, he would have put up 20 PPG, right? Mike Davis gets all the credit for Knights players, right? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, JugRox said: You do realize he got hurt and given an extra year? And didn’t get to play for Matta his real junior year because of injuries and put up 11 PPG as a Sophmore? Nah, he was some 3 star nobody that Holtmann turned into a stud. JUST HOLTMANN....NO ONE ELSE. Without Holtmann he probably just quits the team, right? If Newkirk played for Holtmann, he would have put up 20 PPG, right? lol Exactly right! Maybe you’re smarter than you sound. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 Andrew Dakich spent a lot of time on the radio that following summer. He went on and on about how much of a stud Bates-Diop was from the get go(from the summer before). They (the team) knew they were vastly underrated and wore it as a chip on their shoulder. And they also had a healthy Bates Diop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 What they inherited: Miller % Scoring Returning: 58% % Minutes Returning: 67% Average Experience: 1.8 years RSCI Top 100: 4 (Average: 62) Holtmann % Scoring Returning: 60% % Minutes Returning: 62% Note: Adjusted assuming Bates-Diop matched his totals from his sophomore season for a full year. Average Experience: 1.8 years RSCI Top 100: 4 (Average: 60) On paper, the situations were relatively comparable. Now....what happened Miller Key Personnel Losses: 2. Lost 2 of 4 RSCI top 100 (Jones transfer, Davis injury). Holtmann Key Personnel Losses: 0. Stayed healthy and intact. Now....taking in all of the above, what stands out? The De'Ron injury. He was our only real post player. Yes, JMo stepped in admirably, but he was out of position. Was the roster Holtmann inherited significantly better? Maybe not. But what he inherited was a much more balanced roster, and that allows additional freedom, both in terms of play and in terms of recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted December 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 11 hours ago, Drroogh said: So going back to your original post, instead of saying coaches hope Archie stays around, what they are really saying is they hope IU's compliance department stays around? God I hope the big bucks alumni backers read this thread and insist on changes! After all, are the same people around that reported what? 17 extra phone calls? Yes and that's why I added the.post that I did. I did not want anything to take my info as a knock on CAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Ballin Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 16 hours ago, Long Duk Dong said: Indiana put the 'restrictor plate' on after Knight left. And then put right hand turn signs in all the turns (speedway, not a road course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 7 hours ago, 3Ballin said: And then put right hand turn signs in all the turns (speedway, not a road course). As a longtime racing fan, the mental images behind this is absolutely hysterical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchenry34 Posted December 11, 2019 Report Share Posted December 11, 2019 19 hours ago, Zlinedavid said: What they inherited: Miller % Scoring Returning: 58% % Minutes Returning: 67% Average Experience: 1.8 years RSCI Top 100: 4 (Average: 62) Holtmann % Scoring Returning: 60% % Minutes Returning: 62% Note: Adjusted assuming Bates-Diop matched his totals from his sophomore season for a full year. Average Experience: 1.8 years RSCI Top 100: 4 (Average: 60) On paper, the situations were relatively comparable. Now....what happened Miller Key Personnel Losses: 2. Lost 2 of 4 RSCI top 100 (Jones transfer, Davis injury). Holtmann Key Personnel Losses: 0. Stayed healthy and intact. Now....taking in all of the above, what stands out? The De'Ron injury. He was our only real post player. Yes, JMo stepped in admirably, but he was out of position. Was the roster Holtmann inherited significantly better? Maybe not. But what he inherited was a much more balanced roster, and that allows additional freedom, both in terms of play and in terms of recruiting. This is a good post, but I'd like to also add in that Holtman was given a freshmen class that included Caleb Wesson who is very good.... Also, positionally I'd say that OSU was strong at the most important positions on the floor in Holtmann's first year given that they had a good point guard, a great wing scorer and a really good post player. It took them a 35 foot buzzer beater to beat us at home that year and they basically beat us at the horn again the next year. We are not talking about lightyears of difference between the two programs the last couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 Correct me if I am wrong, but Archie has only recruited for two years. His first year the roster was already full . So let’s give him a couple more years for sure. I do agree that the biggest problem has been the Administration. Davis was a terrible hire and we held onto him for way to long. Simpson well enough said, and then Crean. To be honest Crean took over a decimated program. He done a good job bring us back from that. I think his biggest problem was he couldn’t coach defense and his plan was to shoot threes and out score teams 90 to 85. Which stopped working for us the last 4 years are so of his tenure. I agree the IU fan base is impatient because it is so long since we have been consistently good. Last final four was Bob Knight team coached by Davis. IU fans are tired of excuses like we don’t have leadership, are we don’t talk. What we are seeing is bricks being shot at the free throw line. Turn overs. Missed open shots. Teams that don’t put opposing teams away. U Conn had 22 turnovers last night and we won by three. Glad we won ,but that worries me that we didn’t put them away after that many turnovers. Just my thoughts, but I bleed Cream an Crimson! Go Hoosiers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Ballin Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 8 hours ago, Zlinedavid said: As a longtime racing fan, the mental images behind this is absolutely hysterical. No need for mental imagery, just watch any race with Danica Patrick. Odds are she's guna take a hard right turn at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 12 hours ago, 3Ballin said: No need for mental imagery, just watch any race with Danica Patrick. Odds are she's guna take a hard right turn at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefftheref Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 6 hours ago, cybergates said: Mediocre at best. If she were a male she would of been booted out years ago. Never cared for her whiney personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 For what it’s worth, I think Archie is a really good coach. Don’t think you guys need to delve into the grey area in recruiting seeing as how you have so many built-in advantages within the state. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: For what it’s worth, I think Archie is a really good coach. Don’t think you guys need to delve into the grey area in recruiting seeing as how you have so many built-in advantages within the state. Just my two cents. Proving again. You can be a very open minded poster. Even though a Boiler. And thanks for this post. Can't agree with you more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: For what it’s worth, I think Archie is a really good coach. Don’t think you guys need to delve into the grey area in recruiting seeing as how you have so many built-in advantages within the state. Just my two cents. The ultimate kiss of death. I venture onto other schools boards from time to time. Purdue and the others all thought Tom Crean and Mike Davis were great coaches too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonV Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: The ultimate kiss of death. I venture onto other schools boards from time to time. Purdue and the others all thought Tom Crean and Mike Davis were great coaches too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 I'm with others that believe Archie is a very good coach trying to do his job with one arm tied behind his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornHoosier Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Stlboiler23 said: For what it’s worth, I think Archie is a really good coach. Don’t think you guys need to delve into the grey area in recruiting seeing as how you have so many built-in advantages within the state. Just my two cents. Thanks Boiler, we HN just have to allow CAM to continue to install his system and continue to bring in players who are perfect for his system, Indiana Kids! If the fan base can allow 5-7 yrs to make this happen, they just found their successor to RMK! Still don’t mean we beat PU but hang a few banners in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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