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UCONN Postgame Thread


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4 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i think people were very wrong about saying Brunk is not good enough.  Rob is gonna help a lot.  maybe top 25 on Monday?

brunk was ok tonight but i don't think he can hang with the bigger, stronger, and more athletic centers he will see in the big ten. he's got about a 12" vertical, which is twice what deron's is

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6 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said:

To illustrate how average UConn is.  We don't have 7 home games to start the big 10 season like we did to start the non con season.  The results so far have been much different especially from an offensive efficiency perspective.  My original point was this will be a long season if this is how we play on the road.  We won't win many Big 10 road games unless something changes (maybe healthy Rob) if these trends continue away from assembly hall. 

But you're illustrating while ignoring things, including our low TOs, how we forced TOs, how we imposed our defensive game while avoiding fouling, how Rob is just getting back, etc. And we won -- despite a poor offensive showing, on a neutral floor in a late game.

And "how average UCONN is" remains to be seen. That looked like a pretty solid team to me. 

That average team beat Fla (36 by KenPom). Their only losses coming into the game were their 2nd game, to St. Josephs (90 on Sagarin), and a double OT loss by 1 point to Xavier (29 by KenPom, 36 on Sagarin). You can call them average, but their record isn't average. Remains to be seen how they finish the year, but they have the makings of a pretty solid team, with good length.

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2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I was astonished when I showed up at some 7th and 8th grade practices. So much more skill work than when I went through. I'm only 28, so it wasn't THAT long ago. Everyone is asked to handle it, everyone is asked to pass it, everyone is asked to defend on the perimeter, everyone is asked to shoot it. Position less. 

That is how it should be. My oldest son was the biggest strongest kid growing up. From 6th grade to 10th grade I dont think he grew. Thankfully I teach basketball players and not positions. By the time he hit his growth spurt he ended up being a 6 3 point guard on a high school team with 5 guys around 6'3 all skilled and a 6'7 center. a team that could have competed for a state championship in my opinion but received little to no high school coaching and never got out of sectional

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1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

But you're illustrating while ignoring things, including our low TOs, how we forced TOs, how we imposed our defensive game while avoiding fouling, how Rob is just getting back, etc. And we won -- despite a poor offensive showing, on a neutral floor in a late game.

And "how average UCONN is" remains to be seen. That looked like a pretty solid team to me. 

That average team beat Fla (36 by KenPom). Their only losses coming into the game were their 2nd game, to St. Josephs (90 on Sagarin), and a double OT loss by 1 point to Xavier (29 by KenPom, 36 on Sagarin). You can call them average, but their record isn't average. Remains to be seen how they finish the year, but they have the makings of a pretty solid team, with good length.

I'm not here to argue.  I'm not ignoring things.  I have one point - we will not win many Big 10 road games playing like we have in the past 2 games.  If we don't win many road games we will finish around .500 in the Big 10.  Some will say they are ok with that right now, but when rubber hits the road in March and we are a bubble team, there won't be many happy IU fans.  

We have time to figure out how to play better on the road, obviously, and we better grow up and get healthy quickly.  

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Just now, NotIThatLives said:

I'm talking about off season practice rules, in season time limits 

Most of my guys did all June with our high school team and AAU. At a 1A school they were also doing football and baseball. There is a moratorium in July but for most part all the kids in our program make it or understand someone will replace them that is making it to workouts. 

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Some of you really need to relax and take a pill for all the anxiety. Does the margin of victory really matter?

They won the game. It wasn't pretty but they still won. Could they have won by more? Of course! Good teams find ways to win, even if they aren't playing well and the Hoosiers did that last night. Now does that mean the Hoosiers are a good team? Not sure yet, but I hope so. It's at least a trend in the right direction. Games like last night are important for the growth of this team and brings valuable experience that can hopefully be applied later in the season. I would take last night's 3 point win over a well coached UCONN team over a 26 point drubbing of North Alabama any day. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

And have been doing two ball handling drills since they came out of the womb 😂😂

 

7 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Just use Benter at Brownstown as an example. Those 5th graders are skilled and running the same system that Dave uses just a less complex version. 

 

8 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Yes. I did not start playing basketball until 5th grade elementary teams.  My oldest son started playing at 5 in a league by 5th grade he had played well over 100 games. I was able to coach him and all the kids in our feeder system and help get them ready while coaching high school and doing the same in another school system.  I agree with you no comparison. 

I'm 40...but I can attest I was dribbling barely after walking. I did shooting drill laying in my bed at night with a mini basketball learning to let the ball roll off my finger tips by kindergarten. The school had a biddy ball program for 3rd/4th graders and yes 5th-6th was real games. We ran the same sets as the HS team on offense...not all but several versions of a hi/low cross picking etc and version of flex offense...in biddy ball. Now it just so happen our best HS coach quit after his son graduated and took over the 5th/6th graders when I was there. It also just happened that he took over the HS team again when my class became freshman (no coincidence I'd say). Our junior high coach was Benji Boyd (Brody's father) and my dad. Excellent coaching and fundamentals established and a cohesive program in place. We had a pretty exceptional class of kids with and around us there but it was no shock that we would lose maybe 3 games from 5th grade til we got to HS and then went on to go to win our Sectional in class ball. The schools where that stuff was also happening around us was rare...but also the ones that did were by far our best competition regardless if they had size etc. We would play a 1-3-1 zone a lot and killed teams because they didn't have the fundamentals on how to either beat a press/zone so on. Great programs are no accident and great players almost exclusively come from one of these programs year after year. Sure you will have some one offs flashes in the pan from other schools but school basketball is absolutely most important and also I see way way more well run programs earlier now then ever before. Which is also why you see some schools suffer year after year because they never laid the foundation for their kids. How many solid bball players squander their HS career playing with kids that can barely dribble with their left hand or shoot a free throw much less a contested shot. It doesn't just handicap the bad players it does the good one too. Which this does kind of feed into the AAU stuff. Because then parents say the only way my talented kid can get any exposure or show his ability is to move him to another HS or simply put him into an AAU league.

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32 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I chose those to make my point. high school coaches take a lot of time to put in place the opportunities for all their players to get better. Those coaches have been around forever because their teams win. Why because they help develop those kids. they have systems in place their assistants work their butts off. When you surround a D1 talent with players that understand the game you can win and win big. the impact of the high school coach in my humble opinion is far greater than the role of the AAU program at least in Indiana. 

I think the point we are trying to make is that the quality we see at the college level right that we on TV is going down.  we are saying we think the main reason is that the top players we are watching are not getting as much quality work in during their prep careers.  We are not talking about the lower levels but what we watch on TV which is usually mid to high major D1 programs.

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6 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I'm talking about off season practice rules, in season time limits 

If you think most good HS programs aren't doing some sort of workouts (lifting/running/basketball scrimmaging etc) year round or at minimum in summer I don't know what to tell you. Yes many smaller schools have kids in football but if the kids aren't they are expected to be there...and rules are basically ignored as far as ISHAA....or at least worked around in the gray area. It might be Indiana basketball but these HS aren't all like the IU compliance office. They work in the gray or cross the line all the time. We see it with recruiting constantly so you know these kids are working out year round in basketball.

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15 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

the top recruits every year play 50-75 games in the summer with very little practice so how are these kids going through summer workouts with their HS teams.

June is literally dedicated to HS teams lol... before school in the spring/before and after school in the fall if they dont play a fall sport. What's confusing? 

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30 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Just use Benter at Brownstown as an example. Those 5th graders are skilled and running the same system that Dave uses just a less complex version. 

Guys you are basing everything you see in Indiana but most of the D1 players we are watching don't come from indiana

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IU is ranked 27 in KenPom and 23 in Haslametrics. 

This was a good win last night. We didn't have a single player score in double figures and found a way to win. 

UCONN has beaten Florida, Buffalo, and Miami and had a one point loss to Xavier. 

 

I am quoting a UCONN fan on their defense..and why it was such an ugly game (or part of the reason, I truly think the slick floor and ball were part of the reason)..

Our defense has been quite good.

Held Florida and Xavier both to 0.89 ppp. Miami to 0.90. Iona to 0.88. Buffalo to 0.90.

Of the real bunnies... Sacred Heart to 0.82, Maine to 0.59... and St. Joe's to 1.14. That last one has kept people off our defense's scent.

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12 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said:

I'm not here to argue.  I'm not ignoring things.  I have one point - we will not win many Big 10 road games playing like we have in the past 2 games.  If we don't win many road games we will finish around .500 in the Big 10.  Some will say they are ok with that right now, but when rubber hits the road in March and we are a bubble team, there won't be many happy IU fans.  

We have time to figure out how to play better on the road, obviously, and we better grow up and get healthy quickly.  

I'm not here to argue either. It does look like you're ignoring the points though, that's why I asked. I guess it's just how you look at it. Do you look at the game and say we played poorly offensively and beat an 'average' team (again, I don't see them as average), or do you look at it as well, we didn't play a strong offensive game but we did impose our D on a neutral floor against a team with length and good Ws coming in, and we did it without fouling, and we did it despite that we're just getting Rob back. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me, it was a good win. Agree we need better offense and have been saying so repeatedly -- from the wing -- and that we need quicker lineups. I don't, though, see this game as a negative.

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9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think the point we are trying to make is that the quality we see at the college level right that we on TV is going down.  we are saying we think the main reason is that the top players we are watching are not getting as much quality work in during their prep careers.  We are not talking about the lower levels but what we watch on TV which is usually mid to high major D1 programs.

Very much subjective. There are all kinds of teams / games showing better "quality." There are all kinds of top players with fantastic fundamentals. There are all kinds of very good high school teams. AAU has had an impact, but drawing these kinds of conclusions is purely subjective.

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9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

If you think most good HS programs aren't doing some sort of workouts (lifting/running/basketball scrimmaging etc) year round or at minimum in summer I don't know what to tell you. Yes many smaller schools have kids in football but if the kids aren't they are expected to be there...and rules are basically ignored as far as ISHAA....or at least worked around in the gray area. It might be Indiana basketball but these HS aren't all like the IU compliance office. They work in the gray or cross the line all the time. We see it with recruiting constantly so you know these kids are working out year round in basketball.

I am definitely not saying they are not working on their game working out lifting doing those things you're saying open gyms Etc. This conversation is really to me, from my standpoint and what I'm arguing, is about the coaching of basic fundamental team play versus scrimmage/pick up ball, uncoached AAU Type Ball, just playing game after game after game with no coaching, with no practices.

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22 minutes ago, coachv said:

brunk was ok tonight but i don't think he can hang with the bigger, stronger, and more athletic centers he will see in the big ten. he's got about a 12" vertical, which is twice what deron's is

....IMO, he was average to slightly above average for his position last night. If he can play with "...More Cowbell "  like he did last night and on a more consistent basis, then we become tougher inside with him. I think he has it in him to be that kind of player....Maybe last night lit a fire inside him and we can see him play above his ability.....

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10 minutes ago, btownqb said:

June is literally dedicated to HS teams lol... before school in the spring/before and after school in the fall if they dont play a fall sport. What's confusing? 

With the btown teams you are associated with and specifically the kids who are being recruited for college ball.  How much scrimmage/pick up ball are they playing compared to a team coached setting?

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I didn't realize until now but none of our players scored double digit last night. We flat out won this game with defense, which actually made me feel a little better because good defense can travel. I thought at the beginning of the game we were doomed again because of packline. UConn made consecutive 3s and we had no answers for a while. Either we played better perimeter defense or their hot shooting got cold (think it was mostly because of defense), we overcame deficit in the first half and even took the lead, and that was definitely a positive thing. No doubt it was an ugly game, but even from a god awful game, there are still some positives I can take. Our offense under Archie has always been 'work-in-progress', so I'm not quite sure how it's gonna turn up later this season, but yeah sure we can play defense. Is this IU team the new Bo Ryan Wisconsin team this season?

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1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

With the btown teams you are associated with and specifically the kids who are being recruited for college ball.  How much scrimmage/pick up ball are they playing compared to a team coached setting?

I don't coach basketball there, just football. I used to though. It's probably 75% coach setting/25% scrimmage. In June it's all coach setting. I'm talking about early in the school year and in the spring with the 75/25. 

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14 minutes ago, btownqb said:

June is literally dedicated to HS teams lol... before school in the spring/before and after school in the fall if they dont play a fall sport. What's confusing? 

My point is that what I am seeing this year in college basketball is showing a lot of these players are not fundamentally sound players.  They don't play well without the ball or know how to use screens off the ball to their advantage and they don't know how to really set good screens.  The skill development that you talk about that I see is these kids really know how to cross people over and try to make them look bad but I don't see sound fundamental players.  I don't see many top end shooting in the college game and I have seen a lot of unforced turnovers.  I put a lot of the blame on summer ball where the kids spend most of their summer playing because they are only out playing games on not working on how to play as a team.

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4 minutes ago, addictedtoIU said:

I didn't realize until now but none of our players scored double digit last night. We flat out won this game with defense, which actually made me feel a little better because good defense can travel. I thought at the beginning of the game we were doomed again because of packline. UConn made consecutive 3s and we had no answers for a while. Either we played better perimeter defense or their hot shooting got cold (think it was mostly because of defense), we overcame deficit in the first half and even took the lead, and that was definitely a positive thing. No doubt it was an ugly game, but even from a god awful game, there are still some positives I can take. Our offense under Archie has always been 'work-in-progress', so I'm not quite sure how it's gonna turn up later this season, but yeah sure we can play defense. Is this IU team the new Bo Ryan Wisconsin team this season?

I always tell my teams... above anything else, what I want to be is tough. And this IU team is absolutely tough. We aren't perfect, but we are tough. As you said.. defense travels and so does toughness. 

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13 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I'm not here to argue either. It does look like you're ignoring the points though, that's why I asked. I guess it's just how you look at it. Do you look at the game and say we played poorly offensively and beat an 'average' team (again, I don't see them as average), or do you look at it as well, we didn't play a strong offensive game but we did impose our D on a neutral floor against a team with length and good Ws coming in, and we did it without fouling, and we did it despite that we're just getting Rob back. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me, it was a good win. Agree we need better offense and have been saying so repeatedly -- from the wing -- and that we need quicker lineups. I don't, though, see this game as a negative.

I have learned over the years being on different message boards that some people look at things in the negative light where other look through a positive light. 

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