Arkansas post game

[IUCrazy2]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

Well, that explains the screen name...

All due respect, he should have at least yanked the offer on Durham, Smith, and Forrester.  How would this team look if we replaced Durham/Forrester with McKinley Wright?  We turned him away to keep Forrester and he is no longer on the team.  Wright is playing pretty darn well for Colorado in a current position of need for us.

So who is the crazy one again?

[Indy1987]

Just now, IUfan93 said:

I hope you are right. I originally thought he’d be a two year player but seems like many think he’s leaving if he gets the opportunity after this season. Can’t say I’d blame him but that really would be a huge joke we currently would not be able to fill...

I haven't seen his name listed in the 1st round draft projections.   But I could see him getting more consideration if he continues to play well.  At any rate I imagine he will test the waters.

Go Hoosiers!!!

[Indy1987]

1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said:

All due respect, he should have at least yanked the offer on Durham, Smith, and Forrester.  How would this team look if we replaced Durham/Forrester with McKinley Wright?  We turned him away to keep Forrester and he is no longer on the team.  Wright is playing pretty darn well for Colorado in a current position of need for us.

So who is the crazy one again?

I thought that was our genius AD Fred Glass that tied CAM's hands on letting go of players.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

All due respect, he should have at least yanked the offer on Durham, Smith, and Forrester.  How would this team look if we replaced Durham/Forrester with McKinley Wright?  We turned him away to keep Forrester and he is no longer on the team.  Wright is playing pretty darn well for Colorado in a current position of need for us.

So who is the crazy one again?

I think you're thinking of the incoming Crean class of Durham, Smith, and Clifton Moore that Archie kept...

Forrester was Archie's first true recruiting class...Along with Romeo, Phinisee, Hunter, and Anderson

[NCHoosier32]

26 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

But we do have TJD.  it's not like to get a shooter we had to pass on TJD.  Every time this year we shoot a 3 I say oh hell. If if goes in I am a little surprised.  There should be someone on the roster that when shoot you assume a make and surprised when he misses. 

i meant next year when we won't have him.  i know he might come back, but it seems like he's showing the potential that would get him drafted and it's hard to see him wanting to come back to this.  maybe though.  

[IUwins0708]

2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

More of the overly dramatic. Funny we just beat ND but whatever. 

This is year 3 under CAM. It's still a work in progress. Whether we become elite again is not going to be determined this year. 

Not quoting you to to point to you in particular, I just don't get the jump off the cliff reactions every time we lose. Lighten up Francis.

Same song and dance we saw with crean. Not getting fooled again.  Mediocrity has set in on the fans.

[IUfan93]

Just now, Indy1987 said:

I haven't seen his name listed in the 1st round draft projections.   But I could see him getting more consideration if he continues to play well.  At any rate I imagine he will test the waters.

Go Hoosiers!!!

I really haven’t looked it’s just ppl assuming with his stats as they are among the nations freshman that he will possibly move up by the end of the season. I personally think he will get stifled in conference play. B1G coaches aren’t dumb. They know he’s the offense on this team. Take him away and who else can beat you?  I’d double him all night long and dare one of the guards to beat you from the outside. We are in desperate need of outside shooting...until we can stop being one dimensional on offense and spread the floor we are going to struggle through seasons. 

[IUCrazy2]

2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I think you're thinking of the incoming Crean class of Durham, Smith, and Clifton Moore that Archie kept...

Forrester was Archie's first true recruiting class...Along with Romeo, Phinisee, Hunter, and Anderson

You are right.  It was Moore.  A completely forgettable player that was not an Archie guy, so he should have been cut loose.

[Hoosierhoopster]

8 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

I haven't seen his name listed in the 1st round draft projections.   But I could see him getting more consideration if he continues to play well.  At any rate I imagine he will test the waters.

Go Hoosiers!!!

This is right on the money. Draft projections mean only so much, but there hasn't been any real chatter or projections to see TJD leaving this year as a first-rounder let alone a lottery projection. Could he? For sure, but no reason to assume that at this point.

Agree with all who are saying we need point guards and shooters -- whether on the perimeter or the wing -- and hello, how many times have Gleas and I, and some others, posted about our probable inability to be effective without play making and shooting from the wing? 

For everyone else, it's not as simple though as saying we need a point guard. We need a HEALTHY Rob, that's a major weakness right now, and one that -- HOPEFULLY - can be rectified this season. If / when he gets fully healthy, we are a much better team because of it. 

And we do have a good frosh point guard in Franklin -- so next year, minimally, we should have TWO quality point guards.

But yes we do need to recruit point guards -- along with, more glaringly, shooting wings. [Side note, that Geronimo kid looks pretty good...]

[IUFLA]

31 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

I'd have been happy with a slow 2 or 3 star shooter that could come in and drain a couple 3s in the clutch.

Go Hoosiers!!!

Tim Priller? Grant Gelon?

And Archie's first group of HIS recruits wasnt bad...10th ranked nationally...and he's 2 for 2 on Indiana Mr Basketballs

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 minute ago, IUwins0708 said:

Same song and dance we saw with crean. Not getting fooled again.  Mediocrity has set in on the fans.

I don't see it that way, at all. 

Do you honestly think CAM isn't a better game coach that Crean? Really? 

Or do you think, in season 3, we know that CAM won't build depth, in the way that Crean failed to build class depth? Really?

I think the answers to both of those questions is pretty decidedly, no.

People get upset, justifiably, after this kind of a bad loss. But the sweeping pronouncements are way, way over the top.

[IUwins0708]

Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't see it that way, at all. 

Do you honestly think CAM isn't a better game coach that Crean? Really? 

Or do you think, in season 3, we know that CAM won't build depth, in the way that Crean failed to build class depth? Really?

I think the answers to both of those questions is pretty decidedly, no.

People get upset, justifiably, after this kind of a bad loss. But the sweeping pronouncements are way, way over the top.

No I don’t think Archie is much better than Crean.  Crean was a great game planner, his biggest problem was adjustments.  Archie isn’t near the game planner that Crean was however he is a little better at adjustments.  Crean was a good offensive coach and couldn’t coach D and Archie is the opposite.  Neither one had/has a discipline team and that’s the most concerning. They may not look exactly a like but they are very very similar. 

[IUfan93]

9 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

This is right on the money. Draft projections mean only so much, but there hasn't been any real chatter or projections to see TJD leaving this year as a first-rounder let alone a lottery projection. Could he? For sure, but no reason to assume that at this point.

Agree with all who are saying we need point guards and shooters -- whether on the perimeter or the wing -- and hello, how many times have Gleas and I, and some others, posted about our probable inability to be effective without play making and shooting from the wing? 

For everyone else, it's not as simple though as saying we need a point guard. We need a HEALTHY Rob, that's a major weakness right now, and one that -- HOPEFULLY - can be rectified this season. If / when he gets fully healthy, we are a much better team because of it. 

And we do have a good frosh point guard in Franklin -- so next year, minimally, we should have TWO quality point guards.

But yes we do need to recruit point guards -- along with, more glaringly, shooting wings. [Side note, that Geronimo kid looks pretty good...]

Was Franklin recruited as a point guard or more of a combo guard?  Don’t get me wrong he’s doing well for a freshman. I expect he will definitely improve and be even more valuable next season. I just didn’t think he was coming in as a point. 
 

Agree on Rob...we are hurting badly without his play. Here’s hoping he can get healthy soon...

[Tiz10]

2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

"Just find some guys that can shoot. On to the next one"

The importance of shooting...

[CTrojan88]

33 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Yes, and so was Mike Krzyzewski, and I can guarantee that every scholarship guard he has coached hasn't turned out to be a serviceable player.

#1) Archie is no Mike Krzyzewski

and

#2) in my estimation, Archie is batting less that .250 at IU to this point.  
 

if there is one guard that is markedly better now under Archie’s guidance than they were before, tell me who...I can’t think of one 

[HoosierDom]

3 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said:

#1) Archie is no Mike Krzyzewski

and

#2) in my estimation, Archie is batting less that .250 at IU to this point.  
 

if there is one guard that is markedly better now under Archie’s guidance than they were before, tell me who...I can’t think of one 

Al Durham. 

[HoosierDom]

29 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

All due respect, he should have at least yanked the offer on Durham, Smith, and Forrester.  How would this team look if we replaced Durham/Forrester with McKinley Wright?  We turned him away to keep Forrester and he is no longer on the team.  Wright is playing pretty darn well for Colorado in a current position of need for us.

So who is the crazy one again?

You don't yank offers for basketball reasons. Ever. Even schools that don't bother pretending to be ethical draw the line at that. 

[Billingsley99]

22 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

Al Durham. 

The same Al Durham that hit all those clutch shots at end of the game yesterday?

At Least he did connect on one thing yesterday 

[Fiveoutofsix]

3 minutes ago, Tiz10 said:

The importance of shooting...

100% agree...Even though Arkansas shot over 30 3's and had a low shooting % - that is what they won with.  IU on the other hand can't hit the side of a Barn.  

My only concern as a big time IU fan is does Archie see that?  His approach is opposite, then again it could be the makeup of the team.  

However, we have not seen a recruit to dress yet that is known as a shooter who can make decisions with the ball.  

Correct me is I'm wrong, we do not have a kid who was knowen to be a lock down defender and with a high motor, with the exception of maybe Franklin.  You win with those kids - Crean best teams were because of three kids.... Oladipo, Hulls and Will S.  Heart, and that was seen before they arrived on campus.

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

100% agree...Even though Arkansas shot over 30 3's and had a low shooting % - that is what they won with.  IU on the other hand can't hit the side of a Barn.  

My only concern as a big time IU fan is does Archie see that?  His approach is opposite, then again it could be the makeup of the team.  

However, we have not seen a recruit to dress yet that is known as a shooter who can make decisions with the ball.  

Correct me is I'm wrong, we do not have a kid who was knowen to be a lock down defender and with a high motor, with the exception of maybe Franklin.  You win with those kids - Crean best teams were because of three kids.... Oladipo, Hulls and Will S.  Heart, and that was seen before they arrived on campus.

Did I just read 'lock down defender' and Hulls referenced in the same paragraph?  

[5 championships]

12 hours ago, HoosierDom said:

To turn things to actual basketball for a minute. It's still too soon to tell what Archie can do. He doesn't have the kind of talent to win young, and he didn't inherit the kind of roster than can win old. His seniors are an always hurt big man and an out of control shooting guard. Smith is coming along quite nicely, as is Durham, but neither are front line scorers. Brunk was a nice addition, but he's a role player. When that is what you have for upperclassmen, it's tough to win. You might still be able to do it if you had a true scorer on the wing, and a point guard. But Hunter hasn't had a chance to become that and Phinisee has regressed (I guess you could blame Archie for that, but I have to think it's injury related). So, we're forces to make things work with a lack of scorers, no real pg depth behind an oft injured sophomore and a real lack of upperclassman leadership/moxy. I think he's doing okay considering that. 

Hopefully we end up with a talent upgrade in two years, but even if we don't, having Phinisee, Anderson, Franklin, Thompson and Hunter as upperclassmen will be a lot better than where we stand now. If he can't win with that, or bring in something even better in the intervening years, then let's talk new coaches. But, I'm still optimistic that he can.

Very very good post!

[Fiveoutofsix]

Just now, 5fouls said:

Did I just read 'lock down defender' and Hulls referenced in the same paragraph?  

Yes, Hulls was not a lock down defender..true.  it was more about his heart beat and no one played harder and got more ouy of his ability.  That heart lead and that is much needed 

[Billingsley99]

To be 100 percent honest I don't care if a shooter can stay with their own shadow if he can shoot.  No one ever confused Alford Roth or Leary as great defenders. I am so sick and tired of hearing we dont recruit kids that dont play hard on defensive end.  For 3 years I have not seen many on our team that do. 

[Indy1987]

11 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Tim Priller? Grant Gelon?

And Archie's first group of HIS recruits wasnt bad...10th ranked nationally...and he's 2 for 2 on Indiana Mr Basketballs

Haha I'd hope Archie wouldn't dig that deep.  

Again it comes back to roster management.   Good recruiting classes and Mr. Basketballs mean nothing if you are missing pieces to the team each year.  Not adding another shooter was a huge mistake.  You can't tell me there wasn't some kid with mid major offers that would have turned us down.   Roll player shooters aren't that hard to find.  Seems like every cupcake we played had one that nailed 3s against us.

Go Hoosiers!!!

[IUDan93]

2 hours ago, IUfan93 said:

Agreed on our recruits. They are solid guys, but we have no shooters and no way to spread the floor. Our only point guard at this point has been bitten by injury bug and is just not capable right nowof giving this team what it needs. I like Archie but I just don’t see this team getting better than what it is. People keep saying give it more time...how much time?  OSU and Louisville made a coaching change the same year their programs aren’t struggling to make the tournament. Without a point guard and shooters coming in, this team continues on with the same rinse and repeat style. Get old and stay old is a great concept when you have a complete team that’s balanced in its scoring. Once we went away from TJD and Brunk, we couldn’t buy a basket. Getting to the free throw line more than your opponent sounds great but when you shoot 50% from the line that strategy isn’t going to get you many wins either. 
It’s all just frustrating. Personally it’s not even about the loss it’s about the shitty brand of basketball that just isn’t getting any better. It’s not seeing any improvement from the coaching staff on in game adjustments, and the players that continue to play reckless with no basketball smarts. It’s the mediocrity that has set in on a once proud blue blood program. I don’t have the answers. I don’t even think a coaching change would help the state of affairs at this point because honestly we’d be starting over taking another chance on an unproven up and comer that may just keep us in the same spot. I just hope at some point in time that we can get back to consistent winning and post season play. 

Yep...I do think if Crean can win 2 Big Ten championships with a better than good point guard, Archie can do the same or better. We just need to get the players, and if it is true that the administration is an impediment in the recruiting/team-building process, than why think a change in coaching will help. CAM is good enough to win with the right players if Crean is. A really good point guard would make this whole thing a lot different.