Arkansas post game

[IUFLA]

5 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

I just want to add, I work with a young guy that is friends with a cheerleader and knows a couple players on the womens team.  It is his opinion/word on the street, from things he has heard,  that Archie and Devonte dont like each other on a personal level and Archie cannot stand the way DG plays.  Justin Smith is salvageable.

The upperclassmen are Crean recruits the underclassmen are Archie's recruits.  It's like oil and water.  Is it Archie's fault he cant change them?

 

I don't doubt that and that's kinda what I had always thought...that there was more of a detente than a truce or compromise. I've watched pretty much every Archie press conference in the past 2 years, and he's not real good at hiding his feelings...

I've also always wondered what Devonte's suspension was about last year...

[NotIThatLives]

11 hours ago, AxnJxn said:

RP wasn't healthy. That's really not debatable, especially after he shot those two technical FTs, and I thought I read on this board that Archie pushed him to the limit medically. And did you see AF play last night? You can't bench everyone for poor play. Per usual, Dakich misses the real problem - Durham getting ejected on a night when we were clearly thin at guard, especially point.

I was in the car listening to the segment.  He said,  paraphrase.  "You want to know my thoughts on the Indiana game?  Al Durham and Devonte Green are your captains?  My God.  These guys are upperclassmen!  That's your problem."  May not have been the same segment but he said this roughly at some point yesterday.  

[Billingsley99]

I think we all want DG to be successful and he is 1 of our only real scoring options  here is to hoping good DG prevails in 2020

[NotIThatLives]

10 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

At least he doesn't lack confidence.

I would disagree.  He has wild swings of extreme confidence and true swagger that takes deep dives of sulky ugly chucks lacking the vocal leadership a young team would require from their senior captain.  I've mentioned the mental health word and take it serious.  I would not be shocked if some day we learn of this reality.  I'm not a professional but those drastic swings are concerning.  

[AxnJxn]

10 hours ago, hoosiermd said:

not to hammer you but you just say ridiculously stupid things most of the time. when knight was asked who should be taken in the first round he said Jordan. The guy then said but the team needs a center. Knight responded by saying draft Jordan and play him at center.

also, we are always hearing that basketball is becoming position-less so YES you can just put anyone in at PG. Good grief. 

come on man. i get being argumentative just to annoy people or whatever, but you are just showing you have no idea what you are talking about. It's like @Billingsley99 said, you can't let the inmates run the asylum. it worked out really well regarding the hiring of Mike Davis didn't it?

Well, that's a pretty nice personal attack. Can you point out what I'm saying that is "ridiculously stupid," or at least more stupid than wanting our freshman center to play PG because one of our seniors threw a bad pass? No, you really can't put anyone at PG. You want Brunk bringing the ball up against the Arkansas guards? Now who is being stupid? You also can't see the difference between playing Jordan at center, and playing a center at PG? Seriously? 

This is a really simple concept that isn't that difficult to grasp. As bad as Devonte was on Sunday, Armaan was equally bad, Rob simply wasn't healthy, and Al and Jerome were out. But, yes, by all means, let's have someone like Justin Smith, who struggles handling the ball in the half court sets, bring the ball up the court. Arkansas would have eaten that alive, and there would have been turnovers everywhere, but hey, I'm the stupid one.

[Billingsley99]

53 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Well, that's a pretty nice personal attack. Can you point out what I'm saying that is "ridiculously stupid," or at least more stupid than wanting our freshman center to play PG because one of our seniors threw a bad pass? No, you really can't put anyone at PG. You want Brunk bringing the ball up against the Arkansas guards? Now who is being stupid? You also can't see the difference between playing Jordan at center, and playing a center at PG? Seriously? 

This is a really simple concept that isn't that difficult to grasp. As bad as Devonte was on Sunday, Armaan was equally bad, Rob simply wasn't healthy, and Al and Jerome were out. But, yes, by all means, let's have someone like Justin Smith, who struggles handling the ball in the half court sets, bring the ball up the court. Arkansas would have eaten that alive, and there would have been turnovers everywhere, but hey, I'm the stupid one.

I will take the higher road and not stoop to personal attacks although you calling my suggestion of putting TJD at point as stupid.  My suggestion was mostly tongue I'm cheek to overstate just how piss poor of a decision maker DG was. Also I can say with certainty that TJD is our best player and the goal is to get the ball into the hands of your best players and since out POINT GUARDS cant do it in the second half why not just let Trayce, the result more than likely would not have been much different.  But what would I know since I make so many ridiculously stupid suggestions. 

Good day sir.

[AxnJxn]

Just now, Billingsley99 said:

I will take the higher road and stop to personal attacks although you calling my suggestion of putting TJD at point as stupid.  My suggestion was mostly tongue I'm cheek to overstate just how piss poor of a decision maker DG was. Also I can say with certainty that TJD is our best player and the goal is to get the ball into the hands of your best players and since out POINT GUARDS cant do it in the second half why not just let Trayce, the result more than likely would not have been much different.  But what would I know since I make so many ridiculously stupid suggestions. 

Good day sir.

You do realize that you agreed with the point I'm making here when I posted it in the other thread, right? I have no idea why you continue to argue with me here and agree with me there, when I'm saying the exact same thing. 

[Billingsley99]

20 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

You do realize that you agreed with the point I'm making here when I posted it in the other thread, right? I have no idea why you continue to argue with me here and agree with me there, when I'm saying the exact same thing. 

Yes I do.  Not arguing just pointing out that my comment was not to be taken seriously and to address the person attack.  You felt the need to respond to the poster that attacked you by doing the same to me. Just shedding a little light on the hypocrisy nothing more nothing less 

[AxnJxn]

8 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Yes I do.  Not arguing just pointing out that my comment was not to be taken seriously and to address the person attack.  You felt the need to respond to the poster that attacked you by doing the same to me. Just shedding a little light on the hypocrisy nothing more nothing less 

So, you agree with my point in another thread, but argue it here, and then call me a hypocrite? C'mon, man. You're right, that was an indirect personal attack by me, and I apologize for insulting you - that wasn't my intent. I think we both agree that fear can be used to send messages, but it has to be the right situation. One of those messages that Knight sent is what ended up getting him fired.

[Billingsley99]

20 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

So, you agree with my point in another thread, but argue it here, and then call me a hypocrite? C'mon, man. You're right, that was an indirect personal attack by me, and I apologize for insulting you - that wasn't my intent. I think we both agree that fear can be used to send messages, but it has to be the right situation. One of those messages that Knight sent is what ended up getting him fired.

Fair enough. My overall concern is that through 2.5 years I have not seen enough to convince me that playere are held to or feel they are held accountable for their actions 

[AxnJxn]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Fair enough. My overall concern is that through 2.5 years I have not seen enough to convince me that playere are held to or feel they are held accountable for their actions 

Well, here's the thing with DG - he has been this way from the first second he stepped onto the court at AH, and he was recruited by a different coach. Do we really think, halfway through his senior year when he continues to make the same mistakes he has been making since day one, that he's going to get any message Archie might try to send? It sure seems like Archie has tried everything he can with DG - suspending him, benching him, bringing him off the bench, even making him captain in hopes that would work, etc. My thinking is that it's likely that Archie was sending that message to AF, who is the future of this program, and keeping DG on the court in hopes of pulling out a much needed W that would also be important for the future of the program.

[Zuckerkorn]

I realise it's water under the bridge and pretty much (beating dead horse emoji goes here) but two closely connected subjects are at play here.  We know our guard play and lack of shooting really hampers us & question why Archie hasn't recruited a solution yet.  But he recruited just exactly what we sorely lack but couldn't add him to the roster, I'm referring to McKinley Wright.  He (Wright) clearly chose UD because of CAM, and very likely would have come here after Miller was hired.  Instead Archie was forced to forego that route and stick with the Crean recruits (one has since left).

Good Lord! Replace Clifton Moore or even Al Durham with McKinley Wright and how frikkin' much better would this team be???

Ultimately it's speculation, based on unconfirmed facts, but dang.  This doesn't absolve the current players of not playing up to expectations, the staff for not developing them better, or Archie's inability to bring in quality shooters, but the potential and possibility to avoid (or lessen) some of our current problems was there for the taking and the AD blocked it.

[IU878176]

3 hours ago, IUFLA said:

I don't doubt that and that's kinda what I had always thought...that there was more of a detente than a truce or compromise. I've watched pretty much every Archie press conference in the past 2 years, and he's not real good at hiding his feelings...

I've also always wondered what Devonte's suspension was about last year...

In regards to the suspension.....On a post-season podcast Morgan said Green came to his apartment one night, during the season, and said he was in trouble because he knew he was going to fail a test the next day. At first the moderator did not understand and thought it was an academic test but it was a random test. Sounded like he had been smoking something besides tobacco.

[Billingsley99]

21 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Well, here's the thing with DG - he has been this way from the first second he stepped onto the court at AH, and he was recruited by a different coach. Do we really think, halfway through his senior year when he continues to make the same mistakes he has been making since day one, that he's going to get any message Archie might try to send? It sure seems like Archie has tried everything he can with DG - suspending him, benching him, bringing him off the bench, even making him captain in hopes that would work, etc. My thinking is that it's likely that Archie was sending that message to AF, who is the future of this program, and keeping DG on the court in hopes of pulling out a much needed W that would also be important for the future of the program.

I cant disagree with what you are saying and its easy for me to point it out because we lost. If we win its all a moot point anyway. I just don't feel any of our players at this point have been help accountable for their poor play. I am sure there are some examples but in year 3 the problems that were there in year 1 are still prevalent and not getting better IMO. 

[Hoosierinbham]

25 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

I realise it's water under the bridge and pretty much (beating dead horse emoji goes here) but two closely connected subjects are at play here.  We know our guard play and lack of shooting really hampers us & question why Archie hasn't recruited a solution yet.  But he recruited just exactly what we solely lack but couldn't add him to the roster, I'm referring to McKinley Wright.  He (Wright) clearly chose UD because of CAM, and very likely would have come here after Miller was hired.  Instead Archie was forced to forego that route and stick with the Crean recruits (one has since left).

Good Lord! Replace Clifton Moore or even Al Durham with McKinley Wright and how frikkin' much better would this team be???

Ultimately it's speculation, based on unconfirmed facts, but dang.  This doesn't absolve the current players of not playing up to expectations, the staff for not developing them better, or Archie's inability to bring in quality shooters, but the potential and possibility to avoid (or lesson) some of our current problems was there for the taking and the AD blocked it.

This is a great point to be remembered when asking why Archie couldn't have the immediate success of Holtman or Mack; complete control over roster.  McKinley Wright would've been a game changer for the start of the Archie era.  He wasn't some far fetched dream, he was right there for the taking and wanted to play for Archie.

We can all see the gaping holes we have in terms of shooting and leadership in our backcourt. So far, Archie has recruited Romeo, Rob, and AF that we have seen on the court. Romeo was Romeo,  Rob has been very solid in the brief periods he was healthy, and AF shows great potential based on playing more than expected due to necessity this season.  

Our 2020 class looks to have a combination of shooting, leadership,  and versatility.   But we won't know for several seasons how that class pans out.  We've had to be patient as a fanbase for the last 20 years, so we should have good practice by now.

[Leathernecks]

26 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

I realise it's water under the bridge and pretty much (beating dead horse emoji goes here) but two closely connected subjects are at play here.  We know our guard play and lack of shooting really hampers us & question why Archie hasn't recruited a solution yet.  But he recruited just exactly what we sorely lack but couldn't add him to the roster, I'm referring to McKinley Wright.  He (Wright) clearly chose UD because of CAM, and very likely would have come here after Miller was hired.  Instead Archie was forced to forego that route and stick with the Crean recruits (one has since left).

Good Lord! Replace Clifton Moore or even Al Durham with McKinley Wright and how frikkin' much better would this team be???

Ultimately it's speculation, based on unconfirmed facts, but dang.  This doesn't absolve the current players of not playing up to expectations, the staff for not developing them better, or Archie's inability to bring in quality shooters, but the potential and possibility to avoid (or lessen) some of our current problems was there for the taking and the AD blocked it.

That spring he got rid of Grant Gelon and brought in Race Thompson.  Wright committed to Colorado less than a week prior to Gelon leaving. If Archie wanted Wright and Wright wanted to come here, they obviously would have talked about it and Wright would have held off commiting to Colorado and came here a week later.

[Maedhros]

18 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

I realise it's water under the bridge and pretty much (beating dead horse emoji goes here) but two closely connected subjects are at play here.  We know our guard play and lack of shooting really hampers us & question why Archie hasn't recruited a solution yet.  But he recruited just exactly what we sorely lack but couldn't add him to the roster, I'm referring to McKinley Wright.  He (Wright) clearly chose UD because of CAM, and very likely would have come here after Miller was hired.  Instead Archie was forced to forego that route and stick with the Crean recruits (one has since left).

Good Lord! Replace Clifton Moore or even Al Durham with McKinley Wright and how frikkin' much better would this team be???

Ultimately it's speculation, based on unconfirmed facts, but dang.  This doesn't absolve the current players of not playing up to expectations, the staff for not developing them better, or Archie's inability to bring in quality shooters, but the potential and possibility to avoid (or lessen) some of our current problems was there for the taking and the AD blocked it.

I've always found that tale to be nonsense. We had two commits ask for their release when Crean was fired, two spots that could have been given to McKinley Wright. Archie had to convince Durham and Moore to stay, and that's a two-way street, not the kind of thing you can force as an AD. What's more, we booted Grant Gelon that May, and had Curtis Jones transfer mid-semester. Clearly roster turnover wasn't a forbidden thing. It's also struck a wrong chord with me that tales of Archie being hamstrung only came out well after the fact, when results on the court haven't been what we wanted to see.

The far simpler explanation to me is that Archie just made a mistake. He chose to roll with the guys currently on or committed to the roster, before quite knowing what he had, and perhaps without quite knowing how good Wright would turn out to be. Evaluation misses happen to every coach. This one became a problem only because we haven't recovered. Imagine this team with DJ Carton. Or Anthony Harris. Jahmius Ramsey, Tyrell Terry, Kira Lewis, James Bouknight, Lester Quinones or any of the other guard targets we missed. We've swung and missed too often for me to shed any tears over the McKinley Wright recruitment, whatever role the AD may or may not have had to play in it.

[IU878176]

18 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

I've always found that tale to be nonsense. We had two commits ask for their release when Crean was fired, two spots that could have been given to McKinley Wright. Archie had to convince Durham and Moore to stay, and that's a two-way street, not the kind of thing you can force as an AD. What's more, we booted Grant Gelon that May

Bingo, they had to be convinced to keep their commitment and since they had not enrolled they were not even part of the APR narrative we hear.

[tdhoosier]

56 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

I realise it's water under the bridge and pretty much (beating dead horse emoji goes here) but two closely connected subjects are at play here.  We know our guard play and lack of shooting really hampers us & question why Archie hasn't recruited a solution yet.  But he recruited just exactly what we sorely lack but couldn't add him to the roster, I'm referring to McKinley Wright.  He (Wright) clearly chose UD because of CAM, and very likely would have come here after Miller was hired.  Instead Archie was forced to forego that route and stick with the Crean recruits (one has since left).

Good Lord! Replace Clifton Moore or even Al Durham with McKinley Wright and how frikkin' much better would this team be???

Ultimately it's speculation, based on unconfirmed facts, but dang.  This doesn't absolve the current players of not playing up to expectations, the staff for not developing them better, or Archie's inability to bring in quality shooters, but the potential and possibility to avoid (or lessen) some of our current problems was there for the taking and the AD blocked it.

I’m not sure what unconfirmed facts are, but I remember CAM trying hard to keep the recruiting class together. And I have a hard time believing that this was dictated by Glass or somebody above him. I’m not sure if this was to keep some semblance of cohesion, the roster full, or what. But With it being late in the recruiting season I could very well see Al, Clif and Justin’s were an all or nothing deal. Needing to develop trust in a short period of time, it wouldn’t look good if CAM was Actively looking to replace 1 fo the 3 guys - that doesn’t scream ‘trust’.

[Fiveoutofsix]

3 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

Bingo, they had to be convinced to keep their commitment and since they had not enrolled they were not even part of the APR narrative we hear.

There has to be reasons, we can only guess.  A guy like Brian Snow says he had no choice.  Doesn't make sense because of what you mentioned.  Even Dane Fife in the latest HH podcast mentioned roster issues and needing time.  

My thought would be that they assumed they were elite talent because its Indiana and they thought they can coach anyone up.

There is so many mysteries and under Glass its a tight lipped running.  Which os good for buisness, bad for us fans.  Ha.  Like what really went down with Shilling?  

If coach disliked Green he wouldn't play him- period.  He does and ALLOWED him to be capatin.  Coaches all the time take away team votes if they get a feeling that is is going to backfire.  Coach knows the best Green is free to play and for the most part has allowed that this year.  No excuses for the passing- that is a mystery.  Green is obviously hampered by lower leg problems and to me it shows on the Defensivie side.  We always have seen lapses with him, however, we have seen grit and grind out moments with him.  The lack of conditioning due to injuries for him and Rob show.

The packline needs the lead guard to get into the ball handlers bubble and that has not been the case this year.  

It's a mystery really.  Personally I am a big fan of Archie and think he has all the intangibles to succeed.  Loved his Dayton teams and guys like Hartman speak up for him.

The only true questions I have is why not the recruitment of another pg and what happened with Shilling?  Why does Osterum get a pass when his Minnesota connections have not followed through beyond Race.

[Fiveoutofsix]

49 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

That spring he got rid of Grant Gelon and brought in Race Thompson.  Wright committed to Colorado less than a week prior to Gelon leaving. If Archie wanted Wright and Wright wanted to come here, they obviously would have talked about it and Wright would have held off commiting to Colorado and came here a week later.

Got to think Race was seen as a kid who had upside and would help get Matthew Hurt.  Osterum a Minnesota guy was the lead on Thompson and Hurt.

Love Race Thompson...only challenge is he always battled injuries in High School and he had one of the most unique concussions that I have heard of happening in Basketball.  He is a kid that is supposed to have a shooting stroke, has not shown it in games.  

[CrimsonV]

22 hours ago, IUFLA said:

If we so desperately need 3 point shooters is a 27% 3 point shooter the answer? He would have lended backcourt depth, I'll hand you that.

Funny how during the off season Miller was lauded for not doing the Crean thing by offering schollies to any and everyone, but now any and everyone is acceptable.

Proctor hit over 38% from downtown a couple years back so he’s capable. He’s likely due for a big second half as water finds its level.

There are definitely some useful pieces on this list including the honorable mentions at the bottom.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ranking-college-basketballs-top-graduate-transfers-who-will-play-for-new-teams-in-2019-20/amp/

 

 

 

 

 

[IUFLA]

3 minutes ago, CrimsonV said:

Proctor hit over 38% from downtown a couple years back so he’s capable. He’s likely due for a big second half as water finds its level.

There are definitely some useful pieces on this list including the honorable mentions at the bottom.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ranking-college-basketballs-top-graduate-transfers-who-will-play-for-new-teams-in-2019-20/amp/

 

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure he wasn't facing the caliber of competition at Iona and High Point that he will in the B10...

[CrimsonV]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

I'm pretty sure he wasn't facing the caliber of competition at Iona and High Point that he will in the B10...

Lol ok pal. Take a look at the caliber of schools participating in picking these guys up. Tells you all you need to know. 

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, CrimsonV said:

Lol ok pal. Take a look at the caliber of schools participating in picking these guys up. Tells you all you need to know. 

I'm just pointing out the fact that you're touting this kid as the cure to what ails IU, and against B10 defenses, I'm not so sure.

I conceded that he would have helped our backcourt depth, but he would not be a season saver for us, in my opinion...