IowaHoosierFan Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, 5fouls said: What? Who doesn't like Scooby Doo? Next thing you'll tell me is that you don't find Velma to be totally smoking hot. Love Verma 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 I have three cousins who went to Arkansas. I have spent more time in Razorback country than I can count. The good news is we don’t talk smack and are nice about each other’s schools. People forget but Arkansas has had good success including a title in the 1990s and those really good Sidney Moncrief teams. They have some basketball legacy and a very good coach now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, IU247 said: Some coaches grow tired of all the recruiting crap and all the things that come with being a college coach. Money won’t change that. I've not grown tired of it. If someone wants to throw $10 million my way, I'll gladly take the burden. I'll even let you guys trash me on here, and not even give a crap if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, IowaHoosierFan said: Ignoring Stevens and Donovan. You can entice high level talent with high level salary. I should have never brought Stevens and Donovan up. It was my mistake and I derailed any good discussion Why are we all of a sudden going to pay so much more than everyone else? We pay the 12th most in the country, that seems pretty good to me. Wasn't UCLA willing to throw a boat load of money at their new coach and couldn't find anyone worthy of the money once Cal turned them down. I think the reason that no one pays more is that you can't really justify it. You pay more only when you have an established star coach and you have to pony up to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, JugRox said: IU has been irrelevant for 20 years. What magic hire is going to make it all go away? And did Dale Brown make out with your wife or something? All the more reason to make a move sooner versus later. Archie nor his teams have shown improvement from day 1 to now. What magic or sudden change is he going to Make to turn it around? My bet is that there isn’t one and what we’ve seen is all he’s got. He is in over his head and refuses to hold players accountable for their recurring mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: Why are we all of a sudden going to pay so much more than everyone else? We pay the 12th most in the country, that seems pretty good to me. Wasn't UCLA willing to throw a boat load of money at their new coach and couldn't find anyone worthy of the money once Cal turned them down. I think the reason that no one pays more is that you can't really justify it. You pay more only when you have an established star coach and you have to pony up to keep him. Big difference from 12 to 1. It’s what I am saying. We paid 3.2 and Ohio State paid 7.2. Not saying he is the better coach but they are willing to pay to get what they want. Not what they can get for the price they want to pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: Well Archie is 10th in the country in salary and it has not helped. Also with us not getting the revenue from football like some of the other schools we don't have 8-10 million a year to give our coaches. If basketball were half of what it once was, 8-10 million a year would be no problem...come on ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Duk Dong Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: I don't think Saban has ever coached basketball but why not. Again who is the Saban out there to pry away that would be available and willing to change jobs. Alabama football was in the same position that Indiana basketball has been in before they hired Saban. I don't know who would be available. That's above my pay grade. The best AD's get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 To turn things to actual basketball for a minute. It's still too soon to tell what Archie can do. He doesn't have the kind of talent to win young, and he didn't inherit the kind of roster than can win old. His seniors are an always hurt big man and an out of control shooting guard. Smith is coming along quite nicely, as is Durham, but neither are front line scorers. Brunk was a nice addition, but he's a role player. When that is what you have for upperclassmen, it's tough to win. You might still be able to do it if you had a true scorer on the wing, and a point guard. But Hunter hasn't had a chance to become that and Phinisee has regressed (I guess you could blame Archie for that, but I have to think it's injury related). So, we're forces to make things work with a lack of scorers, no real pg depth behind an oft injured sophomore and a real lack of upperclassman leadership/moxy. I think he's doing okay considering that. Hopefully we end up with a talent upgrade in two years, but even if we don't, having Phinisee, Anderson, Franklin, Thompson and Hunter as upperclassmen will be a lot better than where we stand now. If he can't win with that, or bring in something even better in the intervening years, then let's talk new coaches. But, I'm still optimistic that he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said: Big difference from 12 to 1. It’s what I am saying. We paid 3.2 and Ohio State paid 7.2. Not saying he is the better coach but they are willing to pay to get what they want. Not what they can get for the price they want to pay Where are you seeing that number? The list I see has Archie making more than Holtmann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leathernecks Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 I think I can speak for everybody when I say this... &$@! that decade. Glad it's over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Leathernecks said: I think I can speak for everybody when I say this... &$@! that decade. Glad it's over. Sadly, at this point I would be ecstatic if we could have as much success in the 2020s as we did in the 2010s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: Where are you seeing that number? The list I see has Archie making more than Holtmann. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/08/the-10-highest-paid-ncaa-basketball-coaches.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 hours ago, IU Scott said: I am sure Duke is happy they did not over react to coach K's first 4 years He was on the hot seat, big time, but Duke obviously stuck with him. Part of the reason K had the turn around is that he landed the number one rated class in the country (I.e he did not magically “Coach up” marginal talent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: To turn things to actual basketball for a minute. It's still too soon to tell what Archie can do. He doesn't have the kind of talent to win young, and he didn't inherit the kind of roster than can win old. His seniors are an always hurt big man and an out of control shooting guard. Smith is coming along quite nicely, as is Durham, but neither are front line scorers. Brunk was a nice addition, but he's a role player. When that is what you have for upperclassmen, it's tough to win. You might still be able to do it if you had a true scorer on the wing, and a point guard. But Hunter hasn't had a chance to become that and Phinisee has regressed (I guess you could blame Archie for that, but I have to think it's injury related). So, we're forces to make things work with a lack of scorers, no real pg depth behind an oft injured sophomore and a real lack of upperclassman leadership/moxy. I think he's doing okay considering that. Hopefully we end up with a talent upgrade in two years, but even if we don't, having Phinisee, Anderson, Franklin, Thompson and Hunter as upperclassmen will be a lot better than where we stand now. If he can't win with that, or bring in something even better in the intervening years, then let's talk new coaches. But, I'm still optimistic that he can. I an glad you're optimistic. Unfortunately I an no longer enamoured with this team or coach. Obviously we need to see how the season ends up but I don't like what I see and it seems that each year looks and feels the same. I would feel different if we got better year to year but I don't feel we have, but again just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtcat2 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, hoosiermd said: That's fair. I think the easy out is what IU Scott has done and just says Indiana isn't "elite" anymore and if you believe that then everything else makes sense. If Indiana is just run of the mill and is simply your average program, then expectations should adjust accordingly. It's that simple. If all we are in Kansas State or NC State or Alabama then yeah, give Archie 10 years and if we make a couple of Sweet 16s then everyone will be really really happy and we can all go home. History simply says otherwise as does our fanbase so operating out of the assumption that we aren't a blueblood or that we don't have a history is just silly and unfortunate because it doesn't really provide any real solutions even though it falls under the guise of "hey I'm the only reasonable one here." so it has the appearance of wisdom yet is just fallacy at its finest trying to feel good about themselves for being a loser and accepting mediocrity. The IU fanbase simply won't accept average and that is where you have to come at the problem. I think more than anything Indiana simply is working in the shadow of Bob Knight. It's really that simple and for those of us old enough to know, that SHADOW is enormous. I think most of us who were around for Knight's glory years probably believe deep down Knight could have taken 7-8 solid 3* Indiana HS kids and beat Arkansas by 20. It's just the truth. Like the man or don't like him, he's arguably the greatest basketball mind the world has every produced. The other problem is that Indiana has no lineage & you have an administration that has worked against the program. Just look a the plethora of postings on this forum and you'll find enough support for that to be true. But the lineage is important. Just going back 50 years, Louisville went from Denny Crum to Rick Pitino to Chris Mack. Duke went from Bill E. Foster to Mike Krzyzewski and Foster did well while at Duke. UNC pretty much went from Dean Smith to Roy Williams. Matt Doherty only got 3 years at UNC. How many years to Billy Gillespie get at UK? I think it was 2 and didn't he 20 games in his 2nd year? Michigan St. went from Heathcote to Izzo. UCLA has had similar problems going on from John Wooden. Who the heir apparent is? I have no idea, but was UNC or UK really hurt by pulling the trigger so fast? Did Indiana really benefit from being patient with Tom Crean? It would be a miracle to be Kansas State stature now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 hours ago, IU Scott said: I am sure Duke is happy they did not over react to coach K's first 4 years Just curious, do you think Archie is the next coach K? I only ask because you bring up the coach K example so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/03/08/the-10-highest-paid-ncaa-basketball-coaches.html SI had him much lower and it seems as though the number they use is more accurate. Seems as though CNBC includes his one time buy-out from Butler. https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2018/02/no_chris_holtmann_is_not_the_t.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said: I an glad you're optimistic. Unfortunately I an no longer enamoured with this team or coach. Obviously we need to see how the season ends up but I don't like what I see and it seems that each year looks and feels the same. I would feel different if we got better year to year but I don't feel we have, but again just my opinion Even if you're not optimistic, do you disagree that it would be much more fair to judge him then? You don't feel like we're better than last year? I still think we make the tournament this year. We unquestionably would if they just decided to have it now. That's moving in the right direction. I think replacing Green and Davis with Leal, Galloway and Geronimo is improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: SI had him much lower and it seems as though the number they use is more accurate. Seems as though CNBC includes his one time buy-out from Butler. https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2018/02/no_chris_holtmann_is_not_the_t.html you're right. I looked at a few other sites and they have IU at 14 and after the Cal and K it drops to 5 and then down from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: SI had him much lower and it seems as though the number they use is more accurate. Seems as though CNBC includes his one time buy-out from Butler. https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2018/02/no_chris_holtmann_is_not_the_t.html The Cleveland number is correct. Holtman is around 3mm a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtcat2 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 To play devil's advocate- maybe the administration isn't looking to throw big money at the problem because the problem cannot be solved. I simply think the program has been too bad for too long to ever be "elite" again. I would be thrilled with occasional sweet 16 finishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 50 minutes ago, bobtcat2 said: To play devil's advocate- maybe the administration isn't looking to throw big money at the problem because the problem cannot be solved. I simply think the program has been too bad for too long to ever be "elite" again. I would be thrilled with occasional sweet 16 finishes. That's a loser mentality...sorry. This program has a fan base that is as fanatical as any in the country. We consistently rate near the top when it comes to the "value" of the program and we have been doing that over a period where the product on the court has been mediocre at best. With the BTN, the AD has finally had money to burn to the point where our idiot President was siphoning off athletic money to build a pet project of his. No, I get sick of this, "we cannot be elite again" nonsense. The only thing keeping us from being elite is the absolute imbeciles that run the University. You want change? Start by getting Shoulders off the BOT. Dump and do not hire anymore Brands, Herberts, or McRobbies. Get the AD compliance department working with the coaching staff as opposed to against it and fire anyone who is not on board. Take the darn shackles off the program that none of our competition put on. We are not elite because the administration at Indiana does not want to be...and they can so that because it takes 9 years for the fanbase to completely lose their minds before they do anything about a program that is clearly in disarray. Even now, there are those of you who act like battered spouses...just one more chance. The joke is going to be on Indiana eventually though. The academic ratings have taken a beating and so have the athletics. At a certain point if conference realignment kicks up again, what are we going to be bringing to the table for the Big Ten? We have lost out on an entire generation of fans. You already see it in declining attendance. Less fans, crappy teams...maybe another school starts to look more attractive than an IU. We have had almost 30 years of morons running this school and we continue to reward them by politely giving the benefit of the doubt. We would be elite again if the people that made the decisions at the school made that a priority. Instead they seem to be living by some dead guy's choice to "de-emphasize" athletics. He used that stupid idea to get a new job and we have been living with the consequences of that bone headed decision ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Arkansas checks in at #25 this morning in NBC's power rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 8 hours ago, hoosiermd said: But that's the thing though. You could sell Beard. I don't know how you do it. I'm not an AD nor a saleman, but you back up the Brinks truck, sell him on the history of Indiana basketball, tell him what he did at Texas Tech last year is the best he's going to get and sell him on becoming a legend. That's the sell. Whether you or I believe that can be solid is irrelevant, you need to find an AD and President that CAN sell it. How is Beard's resume any better than Archie's? He went to the championship game with a P5 school vs an Elite 8 with an A10 school? That he's taken a preseason 13th ranked team and has them, after falling out of the polls, 23rd? Do some of you really think that in a time out huddle Archie says, "I know! Devonte, make a headlong drive to the bucket, then dribble back outside, don't forget to go behind your back and between your legs a couple of times, and heave up a 30 footer!" ? In the first half, and the first 10 minutes of the second, we executed our game plan, and had a double digit lead. When the tough part of the game came, our floor leaders didn't lead, and made mistakes that cost us the game. That's not on Archie. Three things that aren't really up for argument... 1. We were bitten big time by the injury bug last year. Even with a 12 game losing streak we were pretty much one victory against Ohio State from going to the tournament. 2. The players Archie has right now, particularly in the backcourt, he would never have recruited. As Scott put it, Archie likes basketball players. Consistent players who run the offense and defense the right way, and who make the basketball play over the flashy play. 3. Archie can coach...unless you want to debate no less an authority than RMK on it. I want a winner at IU as badly as anyone on this board, but I would never advocate having a winner at the expense of the integrity of the program. Archie deserves more of a chance than some of the knee-jerk reactionist on this board are willing to give him. I look forward to the day I'll be able to say, "I told you so". And it will come... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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