Maryland post game

[DWB]

13 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Will we have a 15 page post game thread after our next win? 

Answer: no, we won’t.

If we keep playing like this, we may not get a chance to find out ! (sarcasm...kind of)

[Beowulf50]

4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Yes.  That had to use very simple language so Blue would understand.

Hilarious!! Who is blue?? Did blue insult someone’s mentality??

[5fouls]

2 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

I only watched to see Daisy and hear Waylon Jennings.

Go Hoosiers!!!

Waylon could sing a song, that's for sure.

[hoosiermd]

17 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Will we have a 15 page post game thread after our next win? 

Answer: no, we won’t.

that’s kind of sad, really 

I don't think that is sad really. I've posted this before but in the hospitals we have a lot of noon conferences. We never talk about the cases or surgeries that went splendidly well. All we do is kick around the cases that went sideways. You are always going to have more discussion when there are problems than when there is smooth sailing. That's just the reality of things.

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, Beowulf50 said:

Hilarious!! Who is blue?? Did blue insult someone’s mentality??

@bluegrassIU is actually @Hoosierhoopster.  It's his Kentucky personality.

[Indy1987]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

Waylon could sing a song, that's for 

My dad took me to see him in concert several times back in the day.  Good times.

Go Hoosiers!!!

[FW_Hoosier]

23 minutes ago, InThePaint said:

No one has said he’s a great coach. Have I said that anywhere? Again, it appears to me that you’re trying to make a point of him being a poor recruiter because of his recruiting at Dayton. Does winning the conference hold any merit? The A10 gets multiple bids every year. It’s a good conference basketball wise. Consistently winning in a good conference is impressive to me. Have I said Crean was a bad coach?

How do they totally neglect the 3? Should this team take more 3s? I agree that recruiting shooters has been an issue that should be addressed, but I don’t think this team should take more 3s. 15-20 attempts per game with a better percentage to keep the defense honest is good for this team specifically. The best shooter on this team happens to be the most inconsistent guy on a nightly basis. I’m all in for shooting more 3s if we could show some consistency from outside. We haven’t done that yet. I think getting more touches in the paint from our guards could help. It would force someone else to help and make the defense begin their rotations.
 

How exactly are we bad at guarding the 3? Maryland was 6/24 today. That seems pretty good, but without watching the entire game I wasn’t able to see the attempts they got. And I mean exactly how they got those shots. Whether it be off of guarding a screen incorrectly, poor on ball defense, or over helping. So can you tell me exactly how we’re bad at guarding the 3? An option for that would be to go smaller, with JS and TJD at the bigs. 
 

The problem is that it does matter. To me, it comes off as whining and complaining without really making a argument on a specific point or providing some type of solution. 

The last part isn’t mean to be a shot at you. I like to read your insight and opinions, and I felt you’ve made better posts/arguments in the past.

This specific team probably shouldn’t take more threes because they’re not equipped to do that.  And I think that comes back to the failures in recruiting, philosophy, scheme, execution, etc., I mentioned in my earlier post.  The reason I said the specific term doesn’t really matter is because they’re all related.  Archie hasn’t been able to recruit enough shooters at IU.  I think that’s probably because his philosophy/scheme doesn’t value shooting enough, so he’s either not prioritizing shooters or unable to convince them to come play in his offense.  And then of course that leads to IU fielding a team that isn’t able to execute when they do get open looks from three.

As far as getting torched from three on defense, it wasn’t an issue today, but Maryland is just about as busted from three as we are this season.  I think it’s undeniable that it’s been an issue over the last 2.5 seasons, including the Nebraska and Arkansas games recently.  (I looked up opposing 3FG% for Archie’s teams at Dayton a while back, and I don’t remember exactly, but I don’t think it was that bad.)  That probably comes down mostly to execution, but at what point can we expect it to stop being an issue?

[Beowulf50]

4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

@bluegrassIU is actually @Hoosierhoopster.  It's his Kentucky personality.

Ugh....my bad!! You guys are awesome!

[5fouls]

5 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

My dad took me to see him in concert several times back in the day.  Good times.

Go Hoosiers!!!

Loved Waylon.  Could not stand Willie though.

[Indy1987]

Just now, 5fouls said:

Loved Waylon.  Could not stand Willie though.

Yea I saw them together several times.  Willie was not my favorite either back then but I do like him more as I get older.

Go Hoosiers!!!

 

[IU Scott]

I think we should go all Loyola Marymount and shot 50 3' a game.  They would try to get a shot off in 7 seconds and did not really care what kind of a shot it was.  They would press full court and most fo the time the other team would score quickly but they did not care.  I saw them at the RCA Dome in 89 tournament against Arkansas and lost 120-106.  

[IU878176]

1 hour ago, Rev_AK said:

I was a person who wanted Archie. I like seeing fundamentals. I like hearing Defense First. I like the intensity. He cares. I think he is a good recruiter. 

Those attributes are Archie’s “brand”  but so far (2 1/2 years):

Do we consistently play in a fundamentally sound style (7 assists and 14 to’s today) ?

Is the defense that great?
Intensity? I’ve been watching for decades and in the last couple of years I’ve heard that we did not “bring it”, and/or play with effort, more times than I ever recall hearing. That is probably my biggest disappointment.

Good recruiter? We’ve needed shooters and a PG in the last two classes but have not landed either. 

In which of those categories have we improved over the last three seasons?

I STILL hope this works out but my optimism has faded.

[eddy4iu]

4 hours ago, IUwins0708 said:

By not going to games. 

I read your response 4 hours ago and was tempted to respond at the time but chose to walk away and leave it alone.  I just keep thinking about it though and am compelled to respond.  I know that you are a revered poster and I hope I can convey my perspective without ruffling feathers.

I have seen this exact response from numerous posters over the years when times have been particularly bad.  It seems to me that this response indicts the long-standing donors/season ticket holders (of which I am one) as a big part of "the problem" with IU basketball.  If folks would just pull donations and quit buying tickets and leave seats empty the administration would get the message and have no choice but to get serious about remedying the situation.  I know you said just quit going to games so I may be taking a leap with the stop donating/buying tickets part but for one to continue donating and buying tickets and then stay home would not make a dent in administration attitudes and would be quite the foolish investment on donors' part.

When I have seen this response from a myriad of posters over the years the first question that pops into my mind is "are you a donor/season ticket holder?"  I have no idea if you are or aren't.  If you are and have acted on your own advice I commend you for standing behind your particular principles and walking the talk.  If you aren't, I have to say it's easy to advise someone else when you have no skin in the game, financially at least.  In my particular case I have been a VC member/donor and season ticket holder in both Basketball and Football for 28+ years and am fortunate to live close enough to Bloomington to attend most all of the games.  I don't say that to brag in any way, just to let you know where I am coming from in my perspective.  There are countless others who have FAR more invested in time and money in IU sports than me.  IU sports is a part of my fabric and I cannot imagine pulling the plug during bad times as I always have hope that things will turn around and we will be good again.  I simply cannot turn my back on the kids that bust their collective asses to represent my alma mater.   That's the emotional component for me.

The pragmatic component is that once a donor quits donating and buying tickets, the years they have spent building capital in the form of VC Priority Points vanishes and if they ever wish to re-engage they are back essentially to ground zero.  So the argument that if one wants to make things better and see the program rebound to greatness they need to "scorch the earth" and go cold turkey until thing improve is folly to the long-time donor.  You are essentially asking us to "take one for the team" by forfeiting our hard-earned (time and money) positions to make things better, at which time others who have either stayed the course or are jumping on the bandwagon as latecomers can reap the benefits.  That's just a hard pill to swallow and doesn't make much sense to me.

I am as unhappy with the ebbs and flows in our programs as anyone and do get disheartened from time to time.  That said, I believe that our football program is definitely on the upswing and am reserving judgement on the current leadership of our basketball program.  I just don't believe that pulling out as a protest is either an emotionally sound or practical solution.   

Again, I mean no disrespect to you or the countless others who have championed the position you are taking and hope that my comments are received in that spirit - just had to get that off my chest. 

 

[IUFLA]

Just watched the game...

Someone earlier in this thread said how bad our defense was...they shot 38% overall and 25% from 3...I thought our defense in he half court was pretty good...

It slipped away when we started turning the ball over and they got out in transition...our transition defense was terrible during the stretch where the lead went from 10 to 20.

Armaan had a brutal game...he was loose with the ball and had some open looks and couldn't cash them in.

TJD looked a little intimidated by Jalen Smith. Not many bigs in the country that athletic...

Rob looked like he had zero confidence in the 1st half. Looked a little better after halftime, but he's still rusty.

What the hell was Jerome Hunter's deal? Hoisted up 2 ill-advised shots, didn't block out, and stood around on defense like he was disinterested...I was very disappointed in his play today.

I think Archie had it pegged in his post game presser...you have to hit open shots, and even some shots under duress, and through contact, especially inside...you have to hit free throws...and we didn't...simple as that

If you had told me we'd hold them under 40% shooting and out rebounded them by 6, I'd have bet the farm we either would win, or it'd be close...

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, rico said:

Maybe we don't have game shooters...for all we know the kids might light it up in practice.

So like bizarro Tebow.

[dgambill]

22 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think we should go all Loyola Marymount and shot 50 3' a game.  They would try to get a shot off in 7 seconds and did not really care what kind of a shot it was.  They would press full court and most fo the time the other team would score quickly but they did not care.  I saw them at the RCA Dome in 89 tournament against Arkansas and lost 120-106.  

So Crean ball basically lol

[Rev_AK]

5 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

Those attributes are Archie’s “brand”  but so far (2 1/2 years):

Do we play in a fundamentally sound style (7 assists and 14 to’s today) ?

Is the defense that great?
Intensity? I’ve been watching for decades and in the last couple of years I’ve heard that we did not “bring it”, and/or play with effort, more times than I ever recall hearing. That is probably my biggest disappointment.

In which of those categories have we improved over the last three seasons?

I STILL hope this works out but my optimism has faded.

I agree with you. I guess i meant those WERE the things i was optimistic about when Archie was named the coach. And by intensity, i meant HIS. And im not a fan of the huge wads of gum to calm his nerves, I guess. He’s a basketball guy with a basketball pedigree. He knows the fan base is eroding away. BUT, The players look lost. They look disinterested. I saw a real difference in TJD and Brunk with effort. Justin, who i have been bery critical of, had a burst of effort, but only at times. I think that I see a huge disconnect. After a break, after the game was well out of hand, Devonte and TJD ran a perfect pick and roll. There were some very good defensive possessions in the first half. This team seems to only “get it” at times. It seems like they have to be completely coached up just to follow the game plan. When they do, they can play with anyone. Do they tire out? If so, why? Do they lose focus? Yes. They arent always terrible. But when they are, they are. I think we all just cant understand why they cant shoot. Why they dont follow a game plan. And like his predecessor, Archie seems to kill momentum with subs. Im still concerned about what is it they are doing in conditioning. Why all the injuries? Why are they treated with such kid gloves? I am IU all the way, and still like Archie. Things can change quick with a group of young kids. But the questions are puzzling, and we may not ever know the answers

[JugRox]

12 minutes ago, Rev_AK said:

I agree with you. I guess i meant those WERE the things i was optimistic about when Archie was named the coach. And by intensity, i meant HIS. And im not a fan of the huge wads of gum to calm his nerves, I guess. He’s a basketball guy with a basketball pedigree. He knows the fan base is eroding away. BUT, The players look lost. They look disinterested. I saw a real difference in TJD and Brunk with effort. Justin, who i have been bery critical of, had a burst of effort, but only at times. I think that I see a huge disconnect. After a break, after the game was well out of hand, Devonte and TJD ran a perfect pick and roll. There were some very good defensive possessions in the first half. This team seems to only “get it” at times. It seems like they have to be completely coached up just to follow the game plan. When they do, they can play with anyone. Do they tire out? If so, why? Do they lose focus? Yes. They arent always terrible. But when they are, they are. I think we all just cant understand why they cant shoot. Why they dont follow a game plan. And like his predecessor, Archie seems to kill momentum with subs. Im still concerned about what is it they are doing in conditioning. Why all the injuries? Why are they treated with such kid gloves? I am IU all the way, and still like Archie. Things can change quick with a group of young kids. But the questions are puzzling, and we may not ever know the answers

I think a lot of IU fans are confused.

Everything is there for a good basketball team, and at times they look the part, but too many other times it just feels like Miller is guessing.

Is he over coaching? 

[jojo123]

I am so sick of watching Indiana basketball coaches clapping for horrible play. first Crean and now Miller. PLEASE ! PLEASE! STOP encouraging bad play coach. Stop your STUPID! substitution patterns. Please run an offense instead of this playground garbage. And last but not least. Start recruiting more Indiana kids. I don't care if they are two star players they can shoot the ball for god sake. Either the players are very bad players or the Coach is a very bad Coach! Bottom Line this sucks! and this is not Indiana Basketball. I would rather watch the five at the end of the bench lose then the 10 he is currently playing. Fire ....... now and  hire the best high school coach in the state who ever that is. Really could it be any worse?  

 

Edted:

Watch the name calling. It is a simple rule. -blue

[Zville Hoosier]

5 hours ago, GrangerHoosier said:

I'd hire Bruce Pearl in a heartbeat. 

I don't care about his questionable past. The dude just wins and the B1G would be terrified of him at Indiana. They are not scared of Archie.

He would kill it here.

I can’t believe I’m agreeing with this but I am. My wife went to Auburn. I adopted AU FB and she IUBB (along with our kids). Now my 3 kids are also huge AU BB fans and it pisses me off. I was supposed to get basketball!!! I’ve watched a lot of Auburn, that dude can flat out coach and is as dynamic a representitive as you could want for your school’s crown jewel program. 

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, JugRox said:

I think a lot of IU fans are confused.

Everything is there for a good basketball team, and at times they look the part, but too many other times it just feels like Miller is guessing.

Is he over coaching? 

Watching a lot of college basketball I think a lot of coaches over coach and micro manage to much

[bobtcat2]

Sports are funny.  Figured oh well, at least Pacers will win tonight.  Turn game on- Pacers down 40-16 to a 7-28 Atlanta team.  FORTY to SIXTEEN!  Victor, you can't come back soon enough.

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, jojo123 said:

I am so sick of watching Indiana basketball coaches clapping for horrible play. first Crean and now Miller. PLEASE ! PLEASE! STOP encouraging bad play coach. Stop your STUPID! substitution patterns. Please run an offense instead of this playground garbage. And last but not least. Start recruiting more Indiana kids. I don't care if they are two star players they can shoot the ball for god sake. Either the players are very bad players or the Coach is a very bad Coach! Bottom Line this sucks! and this is not Indiana Basketball. I would rather watch the five at the end of the bench lose then the 10 he is currently playing. Fire this punk now and  hire the best high school coach in the state who ever that is. Really could it be any worse?  

First his offense is far from playground garbage and secondly look at the roster and the recruits coming in and you will see Indiana kid son the team.  I get being upset but I think you are being overly dramatic if you asked me.  See this kind of post is why I say that our fans do as much bad as they do good.  Calling our coach a punk is way over the lne and this post should be deleted.  Also if you think a High School coach can come in here and do better really tells me more about your lack of basketball knowledge.

RP

TJD 

Anderson

Galloway

Leal

[jv1972iu]

10 minutes ago, jojo123 said:

I am so sick of watching Indiana basketball coaches clapping for horrible play. first Crean and now Miller. PLEASE ! PLEASE! STOP encouraging bad play coach. Stop your STUPID! substitution patterns. Please run an offense instead of this playground garbage. And last but not least. Start recruiting more Indiana kids. I don't care if they are two star players they can shoot the ball for god sake. Either the players are very bad players or the Coach is a very bad Coach! Bottom Line this sucks! and this is not Indiana Basketball. I would rather watch the five at the end of the bench lose then the 10 he is currently playing. Fire this punk now and  hire the best high school coach in the state who ever that is. Really could it be any worse?  

Sorry, but I don't buy the "Indiana kids...they can shoot the ball".  We have Indiana kids and they can't shoot worth a damn.

[InThePaint]

42 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

This specific team probably shouldn’t take more threes because they’re not equipped to do that.  And I think that comes back to the failures in recruiting, philosophy, scheme, execution, etc., I mentioned in my earlier post.  The reason I said the specific term doesn’t really matter is because they’re all related.  Archie hasn’t been able to recruit enough shooters at IU.  I think that’s probably because his philosophy/scheme doesn’t value shooting enough, so he’s either not prioritizing shooters or unable to convince them to come play in his offense.  And then of course that leads to IU fielding a team that isn’t able to execute when they do get open looks from three.

As far as getting torched from three on defense, it wasn’t an issue today, but Maryland is just about as busted from three as we are this season.  I think it’s undeniable that it’s been an issue over the last 2.5 seasons, including the Nebraska and Arkansas games recently.  (I looked up opposing 3FG% for Archie’s teams at Dayton a while back, and I don’t remember exactly, but I don’t think it was that bad.)  That probably comes down mostly to execution, but at what point can we expect it to stop being an issue?

If the team isn’t equipped to take more 3s, then I would say that’s a recruiting issue. I don’t think it’s a scheme issue. They’re looking to get the best shot each possession and right now that means getting it into the post if possible. I hope the guys that are coming in next year can hit some shots. It would open up the offense quite a bit.

Again, what specifically are we doing that is causing the 3 point defense to be bad? I could point to Maryland, Notre Dame and UConn. It does come down to execution, but when the 3 point defense gets brought up, it makes it seem like they don’t guard the 3 at all. That’s not true. It will stop being an issue when guys decided to lock in consistently. They can’t take possessions off. Giving up 9-0 runs has to mean something to each guy.  It doesn’t take a ton of skill to play defense. See how often someone gets lost on a possession or forgets to help on a screener. Upperclassman leadership would go a long way. Someone has to say they’ve had enough and make a stop.

Were not going to see eye to eye on this and that’s ok! Hopefully things take a turn for the better. It sucks being in limbo the whole year for the tournament.