rico Posted January 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 A lot of the problem with this team is the upperclassmen play. I give DeRon a pass as he doesn't get much PT, but dammit...Devonte, Al, and Justin haven't stepped up. I fully attribute their play to lack of B-ball IQ, not a lack of talent or athleticism. Of the three, Justin is the key. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, rico said: A lot of the problem with this team is the upperclassmen play. I give DeRon a pass as he doesn't get much PT, but dammit...Devonte, Al, and Justin haven't stepped up. I fully attribute their play to lack of B-ball IQ, not a lack of talent or athleticism. Of the three, Justin is the key. JMO Smith should be playing the 4 on the block with either Brunk or TJD. He is not a skilled enough shooter to be hanging around the 3 point line all night. Plus we lose what he is best at and that is crashing the boards. Not that he is ever going to be a pro caliber player but we’re wasting what upside he has Al and Devonte are just mind boggling. They both have the capability to be solid contributors but don’t play inside the game plan I agree with many others that we don’t have anyone else to play in their spots. And that is both of the coach for not having more guards And in Al and Green for being so frustrating. I don’t know how to articulate it but this team feels weirdly built. Like one injuries, one guy in foul trouble, or one bad substitution completely dismantles the flow of the game for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parakeet Jones Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, BGleas said: If this season plays out the way I see it playing out, which isn’t a given, then Archie is going to have to make some major changes heading into next season. The status quo won’t work. I liked all your post, but wanted to address this part in particular. Archie’s willingness to change and adapt is what worries me, not his ability, his willingness. How many times have we seen the original starters come out to start the second half when another grouping played better? How many times have we really seen him try something different. One of the common complaints during the 1-12 stretch was that we kept doing the same things over and over. I think it was @Billingsley99 who posted that he knew someone from the Dayton area who was concerned that Archie’s downfall at IU would be his stubbornness and unwillingness to adapt. Even after yesterday’s poop show, I expect to see the same starting five Wednesday night and no real change. Again, this rigidity worries me more about the future than his actual coaching acumen, unless we’re just really over rating him and he can’t figure out how to adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUwins0708 Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 17 hours ago, eddy4iu said: I read your response 4 hours ago and was tempted to respond at the time but chose to walk away and leave it alone. I just keep thinking about it though and am compelled to respond. I know that you are a revered poster and I hope I can convey my perspective without ruffling feathers. I have seen this exact response from numerous posters over the years when times have been particularly bad. It seems to me that this response indicts the long-standing donors/season ticket holders (of which I am one) as a big part of "the problem" with IU basketball. If folks would just pull donations and quit buying tickets and leave seats empty the administration would get the message and have no choice but to get serious about remedying the situation. I know you said just quit going to games so I may be taking a leap with the stop donating/buying tickets part but for one to continue donating and buying tickets and then stay home would not make a dent in administration attitudes and would be quite the foolish investment on donors' part. When I have seen this response from a myriad of posters over the years the first question that pops into my mind is "are you a donor/season ticket holder?" I have no idea if you are or aren't. If you are and have acted on your own advice I commend you for standing behind your particular principles and walking the talk. If you aren't, I have to say it's easy to advise someone else when you have no skin in the game, financially at least. In my particular case I have been a VC member/donor and season ticket holder in both Basketball and Football for 28+ years and am fortunate to live close enough to Bloomington to attend most all of the games. I don't say that to brag in any way, just to let you know where I am coming from in my perspective. There are countless others who have FAR more invested in time and money in IU sports than me. IU sports is a part of my fabric and I cannot imagine pulling the plug during bad times as I always have hope that things will turn around and we will be good again. I simply cannot turn my back on the kids that bust their collective asses to represent my alma mater. That's the emotional component for me. The pragmatic component is that once a donor quits donating and buying tickets, the years they have spent building capital in the form of VC Priority Points vanishes and if they ever wish to re-engage they are back essentially to ground zero. So the argument that if one wants to make things better and see the program rebound to greatness they need to "scorch the earth" and go cold turkey until thing improve is folly to the long-time donor. You are essentially asking us to "take one for the team" by forfeiting our hard-earned (time and money) positions to make things better, at which time others who have either stayed the course or are jumping on the bandwagon as latecomers can reap the benefits. That's just a hard pill to swallow and doesn't make much sense to me. I am as unhappy with the ebbs and flows in our programs as anyone and do get disheartened from time to time. That said, I believe that our football program is definitely on the upswing and am reserving judgement on the current leadership of our basketball program. I just don't believe that pulling out as a protest is either an emotionally sound or practical solution. Again, I mean no disrespect to you or the countless others who have championed the position you are taking and hope that my comments are received in that spirit - just had to get that off my chest. Good post. I didn’t take it as disrespectful at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 6 hours ago, dbmhoosier said: Honestly this is a perfect time to fire him. There would be no rebuild that you'd have to sell the new coach. He'd inherit TJD, Rob, Brunk, JS, Al, Jerome, Race, Armaan, Demazi, etc. Plus the incoming recruits. Most either can't transfer or wouldn't want to sit out. Plus there's that monster 2021 class he could hit early. But this administration... I would say if we made a change after this year you would see a few transfers and the new coach would not have time to get those 2021 kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 4 hours ago, dbmhoosier said: Uh no. Why did you fire the previous coach? “Because he missed the tourney 3 straight years when he had plenty of talent.” Well at this time we are 11-3 and have not missed this tournament so he has only missed the tournament 2 straight years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I would say if we made a change after this year you would see a few transfers and the new coach would not have time to get those 2021 kids. Like Archie didn’t have time to get Romeo, Rob, Damezi, etc. Thanks Scott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said: Money keeps the school from doing that. To me, I kind of feel like I did at a certain point with Davis and Crean, I think the Miller experiment is basically over and now everyone is just waiting for the inevitable. There is still time to turn it around but at a certain point I think you kind of have what you have. I think Miller screwed himself a bit when he first arrived by not house cleaning a bit. You have a few years of honeymoon with a fan base. You have to show an upward trajectory. He has not to this point. I hate this particular feeling because it make me not care. I hit that point for the first time with Davis. He was the first guy where at a certain point I just did not care to watch anymore. I have had more and more of those feelings since then. I paid to go to a game last year, the only way I would attend now is if the tickets were free. I think if this year rounds out in a manner that it appears to be heading and Miller gets another year, that we will have a bunch of people just walk away and say screw it. And those who do stick around are going to either be the sunshine no matter what crowd or the pitchfork crowd. And the pitchfork crowd will get way more attention. If this year turns out bad, it is over. It is just a matter of time at that point. No matter how bad it gets I have never once felt that I did not care or did not wan to watch every game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, IU Scott said: No matter how bad it gets I have never once felt that I did not care or did not wan to watch every game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 Assuming this season ends the way many think it will...we need to go out and hire Bruce Pearl. The man is a winner and we need a winner. Whoever the IU brass hires I will say this. And Shane eluded to it with his post from a B1G assistant. Our fan base is one our greatest assets but also our greatest liabilities. We need to hire a proven winner. If not the IU fan base will chew you and spit you out immediately. Archie and Crean had no street credibility. We need a coach with street credibility. Crean was a loser who once had the greatest player on college basketball. Archie is a mid major guy. We need a proven winner. Pearl won at USI, Milwaukee, UT, and Auburn. The man just wins and I promise you he would crawl not walk to Bloomington. He’s a winner who brings in multiple 5 stars at Auburn. Imagine what he could do at IU with a competent administration and compliance department that helps him navigate the waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said: Assuming this season ends the way many think it will...we need to go out and hire Bruce Pearl. The man is a winner and we need a winner. Whoever the IU brass hires I will say this. And Shane eluded to it with his post from a B1G assistant. Our fan base is one our greatest assets but also our greatest liabilities. We need to hire a proven winner. If not the IU fan base will chew you and spit you out immediately. Archie and Crean had no street credibility. We need a coach with street credibility. Crean was a loser who once had the greatest player on college basketball. Archie is a mid major guy. We need a proven winner. Pearl won at USI, Milwaukee, UT, and Auburn. The man just wins and I promise you he would crawl not walk to Bloomington. He’s a winner who brings in multiple 5 stars at Auburn. Imagine what he could do at IU with a competent administration and compliance department that helps him navigate the waters. o, thank you because I don't want another scumbag cheater roaming the sidelines at IU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 I am the same way. Come game day I am there watching the game. The problem is every game and I mean every game I am hoping we win. Not expecting to win! Big difference. Against most of the Big Ten teams, especially road games I just hope we give them a game! And don’t embarrass ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefftheref Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bob said: I am the same way. Come game day I am there watching the game. The problem is every game and I mean every game I am hoping we win. Not expecting to win! Big difference. Against most of the Big Ten teams, especially road games I just hope we give them a game! And don’t embarrass ourselves. Lately before the game I am wondering how much we lose by. I have no confidence in the team playing as a team or the coaching decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, IU Scott said: o, thank you because I don't want another scumbag cheater roaming the sidelines at IU Thank you Scott. But I am tired of the holier than though “we’re going to lose but we’re going to lose the right way” nonsense. Pearl once held a bbq for an uncommitted player. Who the blank cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said: Thank you Scott. But I am tired of the holier than though “we’re going to lose but we’re going to lose the right way” nonsense. Pearl once held a bbq for an uncommitted player. Who the blank cares? I do and a lot of other long time Hoosier fans. I would rather go 0-32 than have guys like Cal, Pitino or Pearl running our program. You know there are way more problems with Pearl than just the BBQ with one being one of his assistants being arrested in the FBI scandal. To me the biggest difference between the fan base 30 years ago today is that today some don't care about integrity and have the win at all cost attitude. There was no way in the 70's and 80's this once proud fan base would ever tolerate the kind of thinking that you just posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 32 minutes ago, IU Scott said: No matter how bad it gets I have never once felt that I did not care or did not wan to watch every game I have a wife that does not enjoy watching that much...particularly if we are losing, young kids, and just life in general that becomes more important than not getting enjoyment out of something that is supposed to be entertaining. More power to you if the absolute dreck we have rolled out over the majority of the past 20 years is something you want to burn a couple hours watching. I find myself using the DVR and watching wins and deleting losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 The microscope of the 70s-80s was significantly smaller, clouded & easily lost compared to that of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, IU Scott said: o, thank you because I don't want another scumbag cheater roaming the sidelines at IU You don't speak for the rest of us. I would take Pearl in a heartbeat right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, IowaHoosierFan said: Smith should be playing the 4 on the block with either Brunk or TJD. He is not a skilled enough shooter to be hanging around the 3 point line all night. Plus we lose what he is best at and that is crashing the boards. Not that he is ever going to be a pro caliber player but we’re wasting what upside he has My thoughts as well. But if he is going to be hanging around the arc he better be able to knock a few down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: You don't speak for the rest of us. I would take Pearl in a heartbeat right now. Never said I spoke for you but I would bet a lot of long time fans would not be in favor of having another known cheater coaching IU. I know growing up IU fans would never tolerate such talk about winning at any cost attitude that has hit this fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, IU Scott said: Never said I spoke for you but I would bet a lot of long time fans would not be in favor of having another known cheater coaching IU. I know growing up IU fans would never tolerate such talk about winning at any cost attitude that has hit this fan base. If we started winning at a level like Kentucky, Duke, and Kansas...they would come around. And I am not talking about flat out cheating, I am talking about operating like Coach K, Calipari, William's, etc. operate. The NCAA is going to allow financial compensation for players soon, we might as well be an early adopter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: If we started winning at a level like Kentucky, Duke, and Kansas...they would come around. And I am not talking about flat out cheating, I am talking about operating like Coach K, Calipari, William's, etc. operate. The NCAA is going to allow financial compensation for players soon, we might as well be an early adopter. I guess I am different because like I said I would rather go 0-32 than have a coach like Cal or Pearl coaching my team. To me I am more embarrassed of this fan base the last 20 years than I am of this program and their mediocrity. I use to think this fan base was the most knowledgeable fan base and ones that took pride in integrity but today I guess that has went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, IowaHoosierFan said: Smith should be playing the 4 on the block with either Brunk or TJD. He is not a skilled enough shooter to be hanging around the 3 point line all night. Plus we lose what he is best at and that is crashing the boards. Not that he is ever going to be a pro caliber player but we’re wasting what upside he has Al and Devonte are just mind boggling. They both have the capability to be solid contributors but don’t play inside the game plan I agree with many others that we don’t have anyone else to play in their spots. And that is both of the coach for not having more guards And in Al and Green for being so frustrating. I don’t know how to articulate it but this team feels weirdly built. Like one injuries, one guy in foul trouble, or one bad substitution completely dismantles the flow of the game for us Completely agree on Smith. Can we please all agree now that Justin Smith is not and never was a capable wing/3. You simply can’t have a wing in 2020 that can’t shoot and can’t penetrate, especially when the guards on the team can’t shoot either. But, Smith is very effective in the paint on the block. Put him at the 4 and the team becomes quicker and less plodding, then Brunk off the bench can still play big minutes and it just strengthens the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy4iu Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, IUwins0708 said: Good post. I didn’t take it as disrespectful at all. Thanks and good to hear. Go Hoosiers!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 44 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I do and a lot of other long time Hoosier fans. I would rather go 0-32 than have guys like Cal, Pitino or Pearl running our program. You know there are way more problems with Pearl than just the BBQ with one being one of his assistants being arrested in the FBI scandal. To me the biggest difference between the fan base 30 years ago today is that today some don't care about integrity and have the win at all cost attitude. There was no way in the 70's and 80's this once proud fan base would ever tolerate the kind of thinking that you just posted. I used to be like that too, but now I’ve come to the conclusion that why should I care about ‘doing it the right way’, if literally nobody that’s actually in the sport cares? The media doesn’t care about cheating. The players don’t care about cheating. The coaches don’t care about cheating. The NCAA doesn’t care. The schools themselves, except for a handful of old school (IU being one), don’t care. Literally no one in the sport cares whatsoever. I don’t want IU’s athletic department creating fake classes. I don’t want IU coaches dropping off bags of cash to recruit. But, I absolutely do want an athletic department that is going to work with its basketball coach and support him in doing what he needs to do to navigate the rules and land top recruits. Support the coach in leveling the playing field. If the media doesn’t care, the coaches don’t care, the schools and the NCAA don’t care, I don’t see why I should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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