What Changes Would You Make...

[The Daily Hoosier]

...to the rotation, scheme, etc. to avoid another Big Ten meltdown?

I drew from a memorable midseason adjustment in IU history and spoke to a former player to try to get a read on what needs to change to avoid a repeat of last year.

 

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketball-midseason-changes-are-necessary-to-avoid-another-big-ten-meltdown/

[IU Scott]

First thing that has to change is to get every player healthy and able to practice every day.  Once we get everyone totally healthy and can play the minutes we expect them to then this would be my lineup. I would love to see Hunter get to the point where he is comfortable and able to get his shot going.

RP

DG

Hunter

Smith

TJD

[5fouls]

Said this in another thread.  Tighten the rotation up significantly.

Rob, TJD, Smith, and Good Devonte play 30+ minutes every game

Al, Brunk, Race, and Deron split the remaining minutes.

Damezi, Jerome, and Armaan simply are not ready to contribute at the level required for conference play.  Play one of them only if injuries and/or foul trouble require.  And, whichever one plays in those instances, ride him out to see if he can get some consistency.  

[Bedford1432]

10 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Said this in another thread.  Tighten the rotation up significantly.

Rob, TJD, Smith, and Good Devonte play 30+ minutes every game

Al, Brunk, Race, and Deron split the remaining minutes.

Damezi, Jerome, and Armaan simply are not ready to contribute at the level required for conference play.  Play one of them only if injuries and/or foul trouble require.  And, whichever one plays in those instances, ride him out to see if he can get some consistency.  

Agreed 

[OLDIUFAN]

I am not a coach, but I see what I see. Damezi hasn’t showed he can shoot  since he arrived. DeRon is finished. I am like the young man but to many injuries. He can’t play at this level anymore. Jerome needs playing time. All 8ve heard is he can shoot well time to give him a chance. Green is still our best shooter, but when he gets crazy the bench is his best position. 
I like the three guard ideal. Rotate TJD, Brunk, Smith, Race

Archie sees them everyday. He’s the one in the heated seat! I would think he has an ideal who gives him the best chance to win.

 

 

 

 

[JugRox]

27 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Said this in another thread.  Tighten the rotation up significantly.

Rob, TJD, Smith, and Good Devonte play 30+ minutes every game

Al, Brunk, Race, and Deron split the remaining minutes.

Damezi, Jerome, and Armaan simply are not ready to contribute at the level required for conference play.  Play one of them only if injuries and/or foul trouble require.  And, whichever one plays in those instances, ride him out to see if he can get some consistency.  

Rob isn’t physically ready for 30+ mins a game.

And if it’s bad Green, it needs to be less than 15 mins a game.

And I love Davis, but with certain match ups, he’ll foul out in 5 mins.

TJD, Brunk, Smith, Al get the majority of mins.

Franklin has had good moments and Anderson plays solid defense and rebounds well. They need some time to keep developing.

Same goes for Thompson and Hunter. They play defense good enough to give them a chance.

Until someone starts shooting, you keep giving kids a chance.

[DWB]

Ok, I'll play along...

1. Dump the pack line and go to straight M2M with varying switching strategies based on matchups, and maybe, just maybe, prevent their star shooter from getting the ball in the first place, rather than playing defense after he has it in his hands.
2. Install an offense that doesn't use the high ball screen on 90% of possessions, and doesn't put 4 guys on the 3 point line standing in cement
3. Radically change the line up to reward effort. I'd start Rob, Brunk, TJD, Armaan, Hunter (if healthy), or other depending on effort.
4. And I'd make it clear in the very next practice that this is the starting line up, and go from there.

 

[5fouls]

For those giving up on Green, this team will not win anything without Good Devonte.  I understand the concept of giving other guys a chance, but as we've seen from other threads, the fan base is not going to let Archie lose while developing Armaan, Damezi, and Jerome.

Like it or not, Archie's future is tied to Good Devonte showing up enough to get this team some wins, and Archie knows it.

Now, if the fan base can be patient, then yeah, I can go along with sitting Devonte and taking the lumps.  But, I think we are beyond that point.

[DWB]

4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

For those giving up on Green, this team will not win anything without Good Devonte.  I understand the concept of giving other guys a chance, but as we've seen from other threads, the fan base is not going to let Archie lose while developing Armaan, Damezi, and Jerome.

Like it or not, Archie's future is tied to Good Devonte showing up enough to get this team some wins, and Archie knows it.

Now, if the fan base can be patient, then yeah, I can go along with sitting Devonte and taking the lumps.  But, I think we are beyond that point.

Good points re Green, but I think most fans agree we see Good Devonte 30% of the time vs Bad Devonte 70% of the time. Doesn't make for a winning season.

And realistically, I don't think the fan base has any choice but to be patient, like it or not, because the Admin isn't going to let Archie go this year. He has a least 1-2 more years to prove/hang himself.

[JugRox]

4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

For those giving up on Green, this team will not win anything without Good Devonte.  I understand the concept of giving other guys a chance, but as we've seen from other threads, the fan base is not going to let Archie lose while developing Armaan, Damezi, and Jerome.

Like it or not, Archie's future is tied to Good Devonte showing up enough to get this team some wins, and Archie knows it.

Now, if the fan base can be patient, then yeah, I can go along with sitting Devonte and taking the lumps.  But, I think we are beyond that point.

And if it’s good Green, I agree 100%.

There is no doubt good Green won the Florida State game.

 But, it’s not a stretch to say he lost the Arkansas game.

If good Green shows up, IU is a top 25 team. Je is that good when he is on.

When bad Green shows up, IU chances of win drops dramatically if he’s on the floor.

[FW_Hoosier]

45 minutes ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

...to the rotation, scheme, etc. to avoid another Big Ten meltdown?

I drew from a memorable midseason adjustment in IU history and spoke to a former player to try to get a read on what needs to change to avoid a repeat of last year.

 

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketball-midseason-changes-are-necessary-to-avoid-another-big-ten-meltdown/

Great article as usual.  Obviously agree (as it seems like everyone does) that we need to go small.  As you noted, the difficult question is whether to move Smith or Brunk to the bench.  Smith is the better/more versatile player on defense... But I think the problem is that Archie really only knows how to use a traditional post-up big when we’re running offense in the halfcourt.  In the last 5 games, Brunk has more shot attempts (38) and points (43) than Smith (37 shots and 41 points).  For this team to win, that’s just not the formula for success.  It just seems like so much of our halfcourt offense is trying to dump it into TJD and Brunk inside, while Smith and whichever two guards just stand around.  I would say move Brunk to the bench and try to take advantage of Smith’s athleticism, but it looks like our offense revolves more around Brunk than it does Smith, and Brunk seems to have the better motor — so maybe moving Smith to the bench is the answer.

The other thing, which has also been mentioned by others on here, is why do Green and Phinisee NEVER play together?? I’d be interested to see the numbers — I would bet that they’ve played together for less than 10% of the total minutes available so far this season.  They should be our two best guards, I don’t see why they’re never on the court at the same time.

[AxnJxn]

How are you supposed to know when "Good Devonte" is going to show up? He's had one or two games (and two might be stretching it, although I admit to missing a cupcake game or two early on) where he's played pretty well through the entire game. The rest has been a sloppy joe of turnovers, jacking up jumpers, running plays incorrectly, and the occasional solid play for brief stretches. Archie's hands are also tied with the health of his backcourt, although that lack of depth is his own fault. 

[Maedhros]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

First thing that has to change is to get every player healthy and able to practice every day.  Once we get everyone totally healthy and can play the minutes we expect them to then this would be my lineup. I would love to see Hunter get to the point where he is comfortable and able to get his shot going.

RP

DG

Hunter

Smith

TJD

The only player we have reason to believe is not 100% healthy is Rob. In his case, we've been told he has an undisclosed injury he may have to deal with the entire season, but it's apparently not serious enough to hold him out of any games. At best when you say "get every player healthy" you're talking about one guy. I don't think that's enough to explain our struggles, especially not when just about every team in the country stuffers at least one injury of some kind or another. This isn't at all like last season.

[ButlerHoosier]

I'd review films from when Crean was here and start implementing that kind of offense including the inside out to mix it up and get defenses loosened up for our bigs. No high weave action that does nothing but tire our guys out. Loosen the reigns and give guys green lights to shoot the three and make them more confident in their shooting abilities. Also I would every practice from here on out run transition ball drills and shooting free throws and threes until the guys arms fall off. Besides that I agree with dealing with the rotation.

[BGleas]

Great article TDH! I completely agree. I really like the mentality, effort and leadership that Justin Smith has shown this year. But with that said, he absolutely can’t play on the wing. He’s an athletic 4, not a wing. When he’s at the wing it means we have 3 guys in the lineup that won’t/can’t shoot but also can’t dribble drive. When he’s on the wing there are 3 guys that defense doesn’t have to even leave the paint to defend. 

We need to become a team that plays faster and quicker. Plays through TJD or Brunk and then uses guards/wings to relentlessly attack the basket on kick outs. That will get the defense moving, get us back to drawing fouls, get our guards/wings easy baskets and hopefully in turn raise their confidence level to shoot. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

Funny, Gleas and I have been calling for actual wings playing on the wing since day 1 this year and have been saying that the 3-big group could not be successful in B1G play, and here we are. 

Agree that the team needs to go smaller (it’s not actually small ball but smaller), and it is worth looking at lineups based on matchups, but i think in most games we’re better off with THD and Smith (whose athleticism and on ball defense are key), with one of Al, Hunter or Demez on the wing, and Rob and Green in the backcourt. Franklin is a solid frosh and should get good playing time backing up Rob.

Both Hunter and Dem have had strong games, both need playing time, they need to be seeing real floor time to get their games going. I think Hunter has the stronger all-around game and ability to score more efficiently, but both can contribute, both have shown good defensive games.

Get them going, limit the 3-big lineup, it is KILLING our offense, our spacing, our ability to defend quicker wings and the lane. 

[jv1972iu]

2 hours ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

...to the rotation, scheme, etc. to avoid another Big Ten meltdown?

I drew from a memorable midseason adjustment in IU history and spoke to a former player to try to get a read on what needs to change to avoid a repeat of last year.

 

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketball-midseason-changes-are-necessary-to-avoid-another-big-ten-meltdown/

This is fine for discussion...however, in reality the HOF coach made a very simple adjustment by going with three guards.  The situation today is much more challenging due to lack of shooters, lack of b-ball IQ, lack of a HOF coach with just a tad more experience and expertise.  But again, it's a fine topic for discussion!  😊

[BGleas]

16 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Funny, Gleas and I have been calling for actual wings playing on the wing since day 1 this year and have been saying that the 3-big group could not be successful in B1G play, and here we are. 

Agree that the team needs to go smaller (it’s not actually small ball but smaller), and it is worth looking at lineups based on matchups, but i think in most games we’re better off with THD and Smith (whose athleticism and on ball defense are key), with one of Al, Hunter or Demez on the wing, and Rob and Green in the backcourt. Franklin is a solid frosh and should get good playing time backing up Rob.

Both Hunter and Dem have had strong games, both need playing time, they need to be seeing real floor time to get their games going. I think Hunter has the stronger all-around game and ability to score more efficiently, but both can contribute, both have shown good defensive games.

Get them going, limit the 3-big lineup, it is KILLING our offense, our spacing, our ability to defend quicker wings and the lane. 

We both said it all summer, I really need someone to explain to me what playing 3 bigs accomplishes, how it helps the offense, or how Smith is a wing?

Smith could potentially be a wing on a team with dynamic guards that could shoot and a stretch 4, but that isn’t this team. 

[IUFLA]

8 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Funny, Gleas and I have been calling for actual wings playing on the wing since day 1 this year and have been saying that the 3-big group could not be successful in B1G play, and here we are. 

Agree that the team needs to go smaller (it’s not actually small ball but smaller), and it is worth looking at lineups based on matchups, but i think in most games we’re better off with THD and Smith (whose athleticism and on ball defense are key), with one of Al, Hunter or Demez on the wing, and Rob and Green in the backcourt. Franklin is a solid frosh and should get good playing time backing up Rob.

Both Hunter and Dem have had strong games, both need playing time, they need to be seeing real floor time to get their games going. I think Hunter has the stronger all-around game and ability to score more efficiently, but both can contribute, both have shown good defensive games.

Get them going, limit the 3-big lineup, it is KILLING our offense, our spacing, our ability to defend quicker wings and the lane. 

So I guess my question at this point for you and BGleas, and I respect both of your opinions greatly, would be "are we giving up on this year?"

And I say that simply because if we go with the lineup(s) you're proposing, we're going to have a lot of growing pains. 

I don't think having both Al and Devonte out there together is a good thing. Similar players in style (although Devonte kills him in results, even with his "bad" side and Green is a much better defender) who turn the ball over and really don't make good decisions going to the rim. I do agree we'd probably be a bit better from the outside, but the combination of turnovers and poor decisions offset that in mind. And neither Damezi nor Jerome are confident enough offensively or competent enough defensively to replace Justin at this point.

If we have TJD or Brunk in the post alone, they'll ALWAYS be double teamed. And kick it out to inconsistent shooters. 

We've built leads when TJD and Brunk are getting touches down low (and they have excellent chemistry together from what I've seen) and we share the basketball, especially passing on the interior. It seems we make a nice pass from the post to someone (Smith more than a few times) slashing down the lane for easy buckets, and then forget about it.

Again, it just seems to me that a lineup of TJD, Brunk, Smith, Rob, and Devonte is going to be our best shot at winning this year. If we're more focused on the future, sure, get Franklin, Hunter, and Anderson in there for major minutes.

Just one man's opinion...

[rico]

CAM tweaking the line-up is the simplest way to institute some sort of change.  And Northwestern is a good opponent to experiment with.  I start TJD, Justin(he is the key IMO), Damezi, Devonte, and Rob.  Joey and Race spell the bigs.  Jerome and Arman need to see minutes as well.  Al can be plugged in where ever he is needed.

[IU Scott]

10 hours ago, DWB said:

Good points re Green, but I think most fans agree we see Good Devonte 30% of the time vs Bad Devonte 70% of the time. Doesn't make for a winning season.

And realistically, I don't think the fan base has any choice but to be patient, like it or not, because the Admin isn't going to let Archie go this year. He has a least 1-2 more years to prove/hang himself.

He deserves at least one more year

[IU Scott]

9 hours ago, Maedhros said:

The only player we have reason to believe is not 100% healthy is Rob. In his case, we've been told he has an undisclosed injury he may have to deal with the entire season, but it's apparently not serious enough to hold him out of any games. At best when you say "get every player healthy" you're talking about one guy. I don't think that's enough to explain our struggles, especially not when just about every team in the country stuffers at least one injury of some kind or another. This isn't at all like last season.

Hunter needs to get back to being what he was before his condition from last year and he also just missed a game

[Seeking6]

Have zero problem with changing things up but just my 2 cents here. If we go small and have TJD as our only big....he'll be doubled team all day long and opposing teams will be daring the other 4 to shoot from anywhere on the court. How would that help a struggling offense? To me some combination of TJD/Brunk has to be out there. Maybe high/low or whatever we want to run but if we go one big only I fear our offense might be in bigger trouble.

With that said. I'm down for anything right now. Hopefully something clicks this week and next. Or maybe we just start hitting shots. 

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Have zero problem with changing things up but just my 2 cents here. If we go small and have TJD as our only big....he'll be doubled team all day long and opposing teams will be daring the other 4 to shoot from anywhere on the court. How would that help a struggling offense? To me some combination of TJD/Brunk has to be out there. Maybe high/low or whatever we want to run but if we go one big only I fear our offense might be in bigger trouble.

With that said. I'm down for anything right now. Hopefully something clicks this week and next. Or maybe we just start hitting shots. 

I would also see problems with the small lineup on the defensive end when it came to TJD as well.  do we really want him to be guarding guys like Wesson, Garza and Kofi

[IUCrazy2]

4 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Have zero problem with changing things up but just my 2 cents here. If we go small and have TJD as our only big....he'll be doubled team all day long and opposing teams will be daring the other 4 to shoot from anywhere on the court. How would that help a struggling offense? To me some combination of TJD/Brunk has to be out there. Maybe high/low or whatever we want to run but if we go one big only I fear our offense might be in bigger trouble.

With that said. I'm down for anything right now. Hopefully something clicks this week and next. Or maybe we just start hitting shots. 

Rob, Green, Al, Brunk, and TJD.  I would try that for a little bit.  Bring Smith in to spell Brunk or TJD and have Franklin and Anderson in the rotation for the guard/wing spot.

Everybody else would get limited spot time.