Jump to content

Welcome to Hoosier Sports Nation | Indiana Basketball and Sports Forum

Welcome to HoosierSportsNation 3.0 -- our newest and best iteration.  We promise we won't bite -- come on in and register to join the party!


Sign in to follow this  
3Ballin

Playing devils advocate here....

Recommended Posts

Mods, feel free to delete if you think this is premature or will start too much fuss.

Given how his first year in the NBA is going, what does HSN think about John Beilein as a possible replacement for CAM if he were to be let go?

  • Like 4
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, 3Ballin said:

Mods, feel free to delete if you think this is premature or will start too much fuss.

Given how his first year in the NBA is going, what does HSN think about John Beilein as a possible replacement for CAM if he were to be let go?

First off, CAM isn't, nor should be going anywhere.  I am not saying be happy with the results, but Indiana needs to find a new identity and you just don't do that overnight or even in a couple of seasons.  Change management is the thing that always will make or break a project and it takes support from the top down, which is why everyone is counting the days until McRobbie leaves and we hopefully get someone not adverse to athletics.

With that being said, theoretically, if he was let go, you stay away from Beilein.  First off, do you really want someone who coaches predominantly black men use the word thugs when talking to members of a team?  Secondly, his NBA stint is not going to help him with future recruits outside of the thugs comment.  Lastly, we really do need to go young and ride someone out.  Soon enough, some of the top tier coaches that have ruled CBB is going to move on and you want to have yourself positioned with a coach that can ascend up. Sometimes, it is as much timing as it is anything and I do believe CAM is adaptable and will make the necessary changes to be successful in the long-run. 

If that isn't good enough, the greatest coach in the history of our program thinks Archie can get it done.   He never said that about Crean, at least to my knowledge.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, 3Ballin said:

Mods, feel free to delete if you think this is premature or will start too much fuss.

Given how his first year in the NBA is going, what does HSN think about John Beilein as a possible replacement for CAM if he were to be let go?

Funny you mention this, got a text from my buddy who is a Michigan fan just a few minutes ago.   MGoBlog writer thinks he will be in Bloomington next year. 

I would take JB in a freaking heartbeat.  He was at worst the second best coach in the BIG.

https://mgoblog.com/content/unverified-voracity-talks-desiccated-kevin-love-head

Edited by Andy06
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, IUALUM03 said:

First off, CAM isn't, nor should be going anywhere.  I am not saying be happy with the results, but Indiana needs to find a new identity and you just don't do that overnight or even in a couple of seasons.  Change management is the thing that always will make or break a project and it takes support from the top down, which is why everyone is counting the days until McRobbie leaves and we hopefully get someone not adverse to athletics.

With that being said, theoretically, if he was let go, you stay away from Beilein.  First off, do you really want someone who coaches predominantly black men use the word thugs when talking to members of a team?  Secondly, his NBA stint is not going to help him with future recruits outside of the thugs comment.  Lastly, we really do need to go young and ride someone out.  Soon enough, some of the top tier coaches that have ruled CBB is going to move on and you want to have yourself positioned with a coach that can ascend up. Sometimes, it is as much timing as it is anything and I do believe CAM is adaptable and will make the necessary changes to be successful in the long-run. 

If that isn't good enough, the greatest coach in the history of our program thinks Archie can get it done.   He never said that about Crean, at least to my knowledge.

I am not writing off the season yet, but if we miss the tournament again, Archie doesn't deserve a 4th year. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John Beilien is a helluva coach.  That said, whether you like what you see on the court or not, we are 12-3, and unless that 12-3 turns into something like 17-14, I don't think we should be talking about replacements.  If, for no other reason, it can destroy recruiting.  

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 5 championships said:

Please delete this thread

We're not open to a civil discussion ?  Yes. It's premature.  However, this forum was built upon free discussions such as this one.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big fan of Belein, but he is almost 67. He was 46-53 his first 3 years at MI. By the time he’d get his system and players in place, he’d be 70. Anyone think that’s the answer for this program?

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My thoughts are this:

should Archie not get us into the tourney this year I suspect the new AD might come in and want to make a “splash” so to speak. The new AD situation would worry me slightly if I were Archie because he doesn’t have a relationship with them and if he comes in saying I need to give myself a name then he could easily replace Archie as to say I am here for you (the fans). Just my two cents. Not saying I agree or not with this scenario but I wouldn’t rule it out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Andy06 said:

I am not writing off the season yet, but if we miss the tournament again, Archie doesn't deserve a 4th year. 

Any coach deserves 4 years unless there are off the court incidents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beilein is one of my favorite coaches of all time. His teams play smart and his offense is a blast to watch. I also enjoy watching his players improve over the year. I like him as a coach more than Archie.

I think hiring him would not be as effective as people think. It could even be a disaster:

First, it took him quite a few years to build the year in year out culture of success that he had at the end of his UM coaching stint. He has a system and people come in, learn their role and slot into the system over time. It takes a while to build that system. You need smart recruits who can learn the system over time.

Second, he recruits certain "types" of players (to fill his roles) regardless of ranking. Missing out on certain Indiana kids, not having the "top 50s" so many people like would lead to a lot of second guessing in a short period of time.

Also, Archie clearly deserves a fourth year. This isn't the NBA. You don't let go of a young talented coach because a bunch of malcontents from an earlier coach are either not buying in or actively sabotaging your program. If Archie goes after this year, I have a hard time seeing any talented coach abandoning their set up for the uncertainty of IU.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, IUALUM03 said:

First off, CAM isn't, nor should be going anywhere.  I am not saying be happy with the results, but Indiana needs to find a new identity and you just don't do that overnight or even in a couple of seasons.  

I agree with the first half of your statement, that CAM isn’t going anywhere and should not be fired now, but...after 2 1/2 years, and several off-seasons, I think it is 100% possible for a coach to implement a “new identity”.

Look at Knight to Davis to Samscum to Crean...the identity changed rather quickly (not always in a good way) in each and every case. Sorry but I don’t buy that  Archie has not had time to shift the culture/identity or that it takes 3 years to learn to defense. I’ve gone through more than a couple  of bosses in my career and all of them inherited the “old employees” but all of the successful ones were able to communicate and direct/enforce/implement their way of doing things. 

Edited by IU878176
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have always said coaches deserve 4 years and have been saying that, but man, after the effort last night and seemingly signs of disrespect from the players, i'm not so sure.  no way in the world we make the tourney this year.  absolutely no way.  i've been saying he should still get one more year, but can't imagine why we'd think we'd make it next year either.  if we keep him that long, 4 years of not making it is 100% enough.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not giving up on Archie yet but starting to wavier. I just think he needs to recite better over all classes. He needs help recruiting I think. Even may play out better. You I can’t keep saying this put he did inherit some of these weak sisters on our team. 
I don’t want Beilein he was and is a great coach but he is 67 years old. I would rather stick with Archie a little longer to see what happens. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Big fan of Belein, but he is almost 67. He was 46-53 his first 3 years at MI. By the time he’d get his system and players in place, he’d be 70. Anyone think that’s the answer for this program?

Not sure if it was intended, nor if anyone caught it, but, look at Belein’s record those first three seasons...

I know people are pissed, but can we please settle down on being done with Archie already? He’s gonna get a fourth and possibly even a fifth year. Regardless. And we should be happy leadership at the university isn’t as petulant as some of our own fan base. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Any coach deserves 4 years unless there are off the court incidents.

Coaches do not deserve 4 years if there has not been positive change or improvement from when they arrived.  Archie’s teams have not improved.....if he misses the tournament again this year, he needs to go.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, CTrojan88 said:

Coaches do not deserve 4 years if there has not been positive change or improvement from when they arrived.  Archie’s teams have not improved.....if he misses the tournament again this year, he needs to go.

Very premature imo. Maybe it takes time, get his players, adapt approaches etc. But if we want a long term successful coach, we can not say 3 years and see ya when you are 12-3 with a win versus a top 10 team.

It is not a finished product, but Archie can coach. 

I doubt there are many young, more talented long term solutions beating down our door.

I mooan and groan game by game like everybody else. But I can not fathom thinking Archie needs to be replaced. 

Coaches know coaches. And coaches know this guy can coach.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, Belein is a good coach, and seems to be a great guy. But to start.over at that age? We are just creating another short term stop gap.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said:

Coaches do not deserve 4 years if there has not been positive change or improvement from when they arrived.  Archie’s teams have not improved.....if he misses the tournament again this year, he needs to go.

You let go when you know he’s not the right guy. That could be one year or ten.  You know when you know.   Once you know you’ve made a mistake you could bait immediately if you’re smart.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, so now that there have responses....

I think CAM does and should get another year.  Just wondered what people thought of the idea.  And Beilein would not be on my list if that time ever comes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, zerawkid said:

Not sure if it was intended, nor if anyone caught it, but, look at Belein’s record those first three seasons...

I know people are pissed, but can we please settle down on being done with Archie already? He’s gonna get a fourth and possibly even a fifth year. Regardless. And we should be happy leadership at the university isn’t as petulant as some of our own fan base. 

 

1 minute ago, CTrojan88 said:

Coaches do not deserve 4 years if there has not been positive change or improvement from when they arrived.  Archie’s teams have not improved.....if he misses the tournament again this year, he needs to go.

BULL will not go on from there. We can  hire coaches every year but you can not hire a better coach than CAM and expect BETTER RESULTES IN 2 plus years !! Coach RMK spoke and said CAM is a good coach BUT IU'S FANS  HAVE TO BE PATIENCE . We are in a rebuild. I am as concerned as the rest of the fan base but give it time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CRK may make a whole lot of movement for this team come Sat. GOD Bless you all

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, loviubb said:

 

BULL will not go on from there. We can  hire coaches every year but you can not hire a better coach than CAM and expect BETTER RESULTES IN 2 plus years !! Coach RMK spoke and said CAM is a good coach BUT IU'S FANS  HAVE TO BE PATIENCE . We are in a rebuild. I am as concerned as the rest of the fan base but give it time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CRK may make a whole lot of movement for this team come Sat. GOD Bless you all

FWIUFan  thanks 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...