Playing devils advocate here....

[CTrojan88]

4 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

Very premature imo. Maybe it takes time, get his players, adapt approaches etc. But if we want a long term successful coach, we can not say 3 years and see ya when you are 12-3 with a win versus a top 10 team.

It is not a finished product, but Archie can coach. 

I doubt there are many young, more talented long term solutions beating down our door.

I mooan and groan game by game like everybody else. But I can not fathom thinking Archie needs to be replaced. 

Coaches know coaches. And coaches know this guy can coach.

You might be right.  I do recall someone posting on here recently and saying that a BIG 10 assistant they are friends with identified Archie as the coach that most other coaches in the league  hope stays in his current position because he isn’t that great.  I know this was posted a month or so back.....I think we are seeing again this year why other coaches hope he stays.  

[loviubb]

7 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said:

You might be right.  I do recall someone posting on here recently and saying that a BIG 10 assistant they are friends with identified Archie as the coach that most other coaches in the league  hope stays in his current position because he isn’t that great.  I know this was posted a month or so back.....I think we are seeing again this year why other coaches hope he stays.  

NO they thought that CAM and IU WOULD NOT go into the grey area of recruiting . If IU would they would be in a world of hurt!

 

[IUCrazy2]

7 minutes ago, loviubb said:

NO they thought that CAM and IU WOULD NOT go into the grey area of recruiting . If IU would they would be in a world of hurt!

 

Which is why we should do it.

[Rogermci]

2 hours ago, 5 championships said:

Please delete this thread

I agree.  Totally counter productive and if I was a parent considering sending my son here to play basketball and read this nonsense I would recommend against.   Ridiculous,  not from the standpoint of allowing it if I was the mod but explain to me how anything productive comes from this discussion. 

[5 championships]

2 hours ago, milehiiu said:

We're not open to a civil discussion ?  Yes. It's premature.  However, this forum was built upon free discussions such as this one.

Starting threads about replacing a coach who is 12-3 and still hasn’t finished his 3rd year is kind of ridiculous to me 

[5 championships]

1 minute ago, Rogermci said:

I agree.  Totally counter productive and if I was a parent considering sending my son here to play basketball and read this nonsense I would recommend against.   Ridiculous,  not from the standpoint of allowing it if I was the mod but explain to me how anything productive comes from this discussion. 

Thank you! It’s pretty sad to me... the amount of negativity around a team that is 12-3 is unbelievable. 

[IUwins0708]

We’re just fans, we aren’t going to determine when a coach is fired.  If that were the case Crean would’ve been fired after the Syracuse debacle.  It’s just a debate guys. Geesh 

[BGleas]

29 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said:

You might be right.  I do recall someone posting on here recently and saying that a BIG 10 assistant they are friends with identified Archie as the coach that most other coaches in the league  hope stays in his current position because he isn’t that great.  I know this was posted a month or so back.....I think we are seeing again this year why other coaches hope he stays.  

That’s not what he said. The comment from the assistant coach wasn’t about Archie, it was about the IU admin not being able to get it together. 

[Madison22]

3 hours ago, IUALUM03 said:

the greatest coach in the history of our program thinks Archie can get it done.

 

10 minutes ago, loviubb said:

Coach RMK spoke and said CAM is a good coach BUT IU'S FANS  HAVE TO BE PATIENCE

Is Knight's endorsement really some sort of Holy Water, though?  In the last several years of his IU career, Knight decided hunting and fishing were more important than recruiting.  He's admitted this publicly.  It's the same as a basketball player deciding he doesn't like defense and only wants to shoot because that's what he enjoys.  Sure, we still got some good recruits, but the overall team assembly changed.  Again, he admits this.  This isn't an arguable point.  Knight himself said it was a huge mistake that lost games and damaged team culture.

Meanwhile, MSU coach Izzo turns 65 years old this month, and was personally in Indiana recruiting Caleb Furst.  That's how it's done.

So I'm glad Knight likes Archie, but I'm not ready to say that's the magic wand that makes all other discussions go away.  Knight was brilliant.  He also had huge blind spots.

At the end of 4 years, Archie will have earned over $13 million.  I really want him to succeed.  I also agree with others that he needs to show progress and improvement along the way to show he's worth it.  To me, it's not valid to talk about injuries, transfers, Crean guys vs Archie guys, recruits we almost had, or just a few shots per game that didn't go our way that would have made oh so much difference.

Every team has those.  Deal with it, fix it, earn your money and build your team.

If people in the IU administration don't know what metrics are involved in measuring "progress and improvement" (they exist) then they should be replaced by people who do.  

Just my opinion.  I'm often wrong.  I'm here to make friends and talk IU basketball. 

Go IU. 

 

[5 championships]

1 minute ago, IUwins0708 said:

We’re just fans, we aren’t going to determine when a coach is fired.  If that were the case Crean would’ve been fired after the Syracuse debacle.  It’s just a debate guys. Geesh 

It shouldn’t be a debate IMO.. who else is going to coach at IU when you get fired before you can even have a full roster of your own players? Flat out ridiculous. For me Archie gets 5 years no matter what 

[loviubb]

IF CAM can't get it done by year  4 then I will be on the ban wagon for the getting a new coach! BUT as many have said IF YOU DO NOT GIVE A COACH TIME YOU WILL NOT GET A COACH ANY BETTER TO COME HERE!  I still  think CAM is the answer if RMK thinks he is a COACH so do I !

[IUwins0708]

2 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

It shouldn’t be a debate IMO.. who else is going to coach at IU when you get fired before you can even have a full roster of your own players? Flat out ridiculous. For me Archie gets 5 years no matter what 

That’s fine, and that’s your opinion.  Debates happen when people have differing opinions.  It’s ok to disagree and not like something.  It’s a message board not a round table of trustees talking.(Thankfully)

[CTrojan88]

22 minutes ago, loviubb said:

NO they thought that CAM and IU WOULD NOT go into the grey area of recruiting . If IU would they would be in a world of hurt!

 

There may have been another post regarding that but that is not the one I am referring to

[IUwins0708]

2 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said:

There may have been another post regarding that but that is not the one I am referring to

I remember the same post.

[CTrojan88]

7 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said:

I remember the same post.

Found it...it was posted by @Billingsley99 on Dec 10th.  Pasted below is the nugget on Archie:  ‘This one hurts. Coaches they want to see stay at their school. Underwood, Collins, Miller’

[loviubb]

5 minutes ago, Madison22 said:

 

Is Knight's endorsement really some sort of Holy Water, though?  In the last several years of his IU career, Knight decided hunting and fishing were more important than recruiting.  He's admitted this publicly.  It's the same as a basketball player deciding he doesn't like defense and only wants to shoot because that's what he enjoys.  Sure, we still got some good recruits, but the overall team assembly changed.  Again, he admits this.  This isn't an arguable point.  Knight himself said it was a huge mistake that lost games and damaged team culture.

Meanwhile, MSU coach Izzo turns 65 years old this month, and was personally in Indiana recruiting Caleb Furst.  That's how it's done.

So I'm glad Knight likes Archie, but I'm not ready to say that's the magic wand that makes all other discussions go away.  Knight was brilliant.  He also had huge blind spots.

At the end of 4 years, Archie will have earned over $13 million.  I really want him to succeed.  I also agree with others that he needs to show progress and improvement along the way to show he's worth it.  To me, it's not valid to talk about injuries, transfers, Crean guys vs Archie guys, recruits we almost had, or just a few shots per game that didn't go our way that would have made oh so much difference.

Every team has those.  Deal with it, fix it, earn your money and build your team.

If people in the IU administration don't know what metrics are involved in measuring "progress and improvement" (they exist) then they should be replaced by people who do.  

Just my opinion.  I'm often wrong.  I'm here to make friends and talk IU basketball. 

Go IU. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Madison22 said:

 

Is Knight's endorsement really some sort of Holy Water, though?  In the last several years of his IU career, Knight decided hunting and fishing were more important than recruiting.  He's admitted this publicly.  It's the same as a basketball player deciding he doesn't like defense and only wants to shoot because that's what he enjoys.  Sure, we still got some good recruits, but the overall team assembly changed.  Again, he admits this.  This isn't an arguable point.  Knight himself said it was a huge mistake that lost games and damaged team culture.

Meanwhile, MSU coach Izzo turns 65 years old this month, and was personally in Indiana recruiting Caleb Furst.  That's how it's done.

So I'm glad Knight likes Archie, but I'm not ready to say that's the magic wand that makes all other discussions go away.  Knight was brilliant.  He also had huge blind spots.

At the end of 4 years, Archie will have earned over $13 million.  I really want him to succeed.  I also agree with others that he needs to show progress and improvement along the way to show he's worth it.  To me, it's not valid to talk about injuries, transfers, Crean guys vs Archie guys, recruits we almost had, or just a few shots per game that didn't go our way that would have made oh so much difference.

Every team has those.  Deal with it, fix it, earn your money and build your team.

If people in the IU administration don't know what metrics are involved in measuring "progress and improvement" (they exist) then they should be replaced by people who do.  

Just my opinion.  I'm often wrong.  I'm here to make friends and talk IU basketball. could of been a great hire

Go IU. 

 

I am sorry that you think that CRMK  doesn't  know a good coach or  thinks IU could  have done better!  But who do you think at the time would have been a better hire? I watched CRMK coach at IU an value HIS opinon . Not trying to get into your  take of coaches. And as of late not a CAM  homey .But DO KNOW CRMK knows a good coach

[Coach Robby]

3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Any coach deserves 4 years unless there are off the court incidents.

Precisely!!! Get a whole cycle of recruits in. 

[Muddy River]

54 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

Oh, Belein is a good coach, and seems to be a great guy. But to start.over at that age? We are just creating another short term stop gap.

I'm not sold on the good guy angle.  I think he has treated some players very poorly, by recruiting over them, telling them they no longer had a spot on UM's roster, then trying to restrict where they could play after that.  Bielfeldt, Albrecht, and Doyle come to mind immediately, and I think there was another before them.  I just don't think that's a good look.  I'm not a Beiline fan.

[loviubb]

Guy's I have enough Drinks to say I Thank GOD I AM NOT  PU FAN!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if I annoyed anyone !! Good night and GOD bless GO IU

[CTrojan88]

2 minutes ago, loviubb said:

Guy's I have enough Drinks to say I Thank GOD I AM NOT  PU FAN!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if I annoyed anyone !! Good night and GOD bless GO IU

Have a good night and I could not agree more on the PU comment 🤮

[BGleas]

31 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said:

Found it...it was posted by @Billingsley99 on Dec 10th.  Pasted below is the nugget on Archie:  ‘This one hurts. Coaches they want to see stay at their school. Underwood, Collins, Miller’

We all knew what you were talking about. You need to read the entire thread. It was not in the context of ‘Archie sucks, we all hope IU keeps him a long time’, it was about the IU admin. 

[CTrojan88]

11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

We all knew what you were talking about. You need to read the entire thread. It was not in the context of ‘Archie sucks, we all hope IU keeps him a long time’, it was about the IU admin. 

I just re-read it and it isn’t directly about the IU admin.  It is an asst coaches thoughts on multiple topics around the B10. He does mention that his friend feels that the IU admin prevents IU from getting the right guy....which he says isn’t Archie.  I pasted the entire initial message below for your enjoyment:  ‘

I recently spoke with a good friend of mine that happens to be an assistant coach in the B1G

We only talk a couple times a year but when we do it's about family and basketball. Lots of very insightful and interesting info most I cant share but here are some things that I can. (Some of these pretty obvious) interesting to hear these things from someone who lives it

1. The B1G is loaded this year not many easy wins 

2.  Thinks Izzo is the best coach in league. 

3. Thinks Holtman will be a great coach. Said he would not be surprised to see Holtman be the guy to replace Coach K. Thinks he is that good

4. Not sure why IU is not at top.of conference most years. Lots of great things to say about what we have to offer 

5. Top 5 every year should include 4 of these 5 and a surprise team every once in a while. IU, PU, MSU MICH, OSU

6.  Coaches they would like to see leave the conference. Izzo, Holtman, Howard

7. Thinks Howard will follow in foot steps on UK, Memphis, Duke etc. The big time recruits will come.

8. Most under appreciate coach Matt Painter.

9. Fans most likely to eat their own, Indiana

10. This one hurts. Coaches they want to see stay at their school. Underwood, Collins, Miller

He believes IU can be a top 5 national program every year with the right guy. Take it all for what its worth, thinks our fan base hurts us from getting a coach that can get us back to prominence.  Its one of our biggest strengths but a bigger hindrance.  Also the administration hurts ourchances of getting that guy.

With all that said, CAM is highly respected and a very good coach but does not see him as the long termanswer. 

Not posting to start anything negative just thought you might like to hear what 1 coach thinks.’

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, CTrojan88 said:

I just re-read it and it isn’t about the IU admin.  It is a coaches thoughts on multiple topics around the B10. He doesn’t mention that his friend feels that the IU admin prevents IU from getting the right guy....also eludes to Archie not being the long term solution.  I pasted the entire initial message below for your enjoyment:  ‘

I recently spoke with a good friend of mine that happens to be an assistant coach in the B1G

We only talk a couple times a year but when we do it's about family and basketball. Lots of very insightful and interesting info most I cant share but here are some things that I can. (Some of these pretty obvious) interesting to hear these things from someone who lives it

1. The B1G is loaded this year not many easy wins 

2.  Thinks Izzo is the best coach in league. 

3. Thinks Holtman will be a great coach. Said he would not be surprised to see Holtman be the guy to replace Coach K. Thinks he is that good

4. Not sure why IU is not at top.of conference most years. Lots of great things to say about what we have to offer 

5. Top 5 every year should include 4 of these 5 and a surprise team every once in a while. IU, PU, MSU MICH, OSU

6.  Coaches they would like to see leave the conference. Izzo, Holtman, Howard

7. Thinks Howard will follow in foot steps on UK, Memphis, Duke etc. The big time recruits will come.

8. Most under appreciate coach Matt Painter.

9. Fans most likely to eat their own, Indiana

10. This one hurts. Coaches they want to see stay at their school. Underwood, Collins, Miller

He believes IU can be a top 5 national program every year with the right guy. Take it all for what its worth, thinks our fan base hurts us from getting a coach that can get us back to prominence.  Its one of our biggest strengths but a bigger hindrance.  Also the administration hurts ourchances of getting that guy.

With all that said, CAM is highly respected and a very good coach but does not see him as the long termanswer. 

Not posting to start anything negative just thought you might like to hear what 1 coach thinks.’

Yeah, I’ve read the message and I participated in the thread. The context was not ‘we hope Archie stays because he can’t coach.”

[JABBATHEHOOSIER]

John Beilein's first 4 years at Michigan were as follows

Year 1 - 10-22

Year 2 - 21-14

Year 3 - 15-17

Year 4- 21-14

Our fanbase would have never allowed him to reach his full potential here. Michigan was patient and it paid off. I hope Archie can get the same treatment.

 

[CTrojan88]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, I’ve read the message and I participated in the thread. The context was not ‘we hope Archie stays because he can’t coach.”

I am not sure, after reading the whole thing again, how you can interpret it any other way.  Basically says that Archie isn’t the guy and if IU ever gets the guy, they could be a perinneal top 5 program again.