BGleas Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said: I am not sure, after reading the whole thing again, how you can interpret it any other way. Basically says that Archie isn’t the guy and if IU ever gets the guy, they could be a perinneal top 5 program again. Because I specifically asked Billingsley in the thread and he said that wasn’t the context. Are you reading the entire thread or just his original post? Edit: I specifically asked him for the exact reason, because I knew a false narrative was going to be started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daily Hoosier Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Very few people know better than Beilein what Archie is going through, and how ridiculous fans and writers can be early in a coaching tenure. I talked to him about it last year and documented it here. https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/john-beilein-on-archie-millers-challenge-the-only-way-to-do-it-is-culture/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, BGleas said: Yeah, I’ve read the message and I participated in the thread. The context was not ‘we hope Archie stays because he can’t coach.” To be fair, “it’s not Archie, it’s the administration” is the way it was spun as the thread progressed (like a lot of threads do). I read those posts as mostly hopeful thinking about what the guy meant, but really only Billingsley knows for sure. The way it was initially presented was pretty straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, BGleas said: Because I specifically asked Billingsley in the thread and he said that wasn’t the context. Are reading the entire thread or just his original post? This is a direct quote from your initial post: ‘Theassistant said that Archie is a coach that otherconference coaches want to see stay at IU, which is clearly a negative viewpoint of Archie, or at least means the other coaches aren't worried about IU with Archie.’ you interpreted it the same way I am now. Billingsley basically responded with reasons why his friend thought this, pack line won’t work, RoMeO debacle will hurt him etc. The Admin piece came later but isn’t why his friend or other coaches around the league want Archie to stay. Archie was lumped in with Underwood and Collins because they were viewed as the lesser coaches in the league at that time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said: This is a direct quote from your initial post: ‘Theassistant said that Archie is a coach that otherconference coaches want to see stay at IU, which is clearly a negative viewpoint of Archie, or at least means the other coaches aren't worried about IU with Archie.’ you interpreted it the same way I am now. Billingsley basically responded with reasons why his friend thought this, pack line won’t work, RoMeO debacle will hurt him etc. The Admin piece came later but isn’t why his friend or other coaches around the league want Archie to stay. Archie was lumped in with Underwood and Collins because they were viewed as the lesser coaches in the league at that time When I have more time, I’ll have to go reread the thread, because my recollection is that Billingsley walked that back when asked by a bunch of us for context on the conversation. Again, I specifically asked because I knew this narrative would be started. Perfectly willing to admit im wrong, but that isn’t how I remember the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogermci Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said: I am not sure, after reading the whole thing again, how you can interpret it any other way. Basically says that Archie isn’t the guy and if IU ever gets the guy, they could be a perinneal top 5 program again. I live in Dayton adjacent to UD campus, went to IU and have watched the game for many many years. Went to probably 40 games that Archie coached and watched most of the rest on TV. Archie did more with less than any coach that I know of in college basketball. In 6 years he had 2 top 100 recruits and one transferred out. Made the Sweet 16 one year and Elite 8 another. Kicked 2 players off the team that made the 16. Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about. Archie can flat out coach. This entire discussion can and will be viewed by recruits and parents of recruits. It's a disgrace and will be counter productive in our attempts to attract top players to IU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Rogermci said: I live in Dayton adjacent to UD campus, went to IU and have watched the game for many many years. Went to probably 40 games that Archie coached and watched most of the rest on TV. Archie did more with less than any coach that I know of in college basketball. In 6 years he had 2 top 100 recruits and one transferred out. Made the Sweet 16 one year and Elite 8 another. Kicked 2 players off the team that made the 16. Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about. Archie can flat out coach. This entire discussion can and will be viewed by recruits and parents of recruits. It's a disgrace and will be counter productive in our attempts to attract top players to IU. It’s not my friend, it is someone else’s friend that is a B10 assistant coach. He created a thread about this persons thoughts on a broad range of B10 hoops related topics. I hope you’re right about Archie’s coaching abilities but what you say he did at Dayton hasn’t made it to Bloomington yet. Lastly, this is a message board where topics like this can and will be debated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, BGleas said: When I have more time, I’ll have to go reread the thread, because my recollection is that Billingsley walked that back when asked by a bunch of us for context on the conversation. Again, I specifically asked because I knew this narrative would be started. Perfectly willing to admit im wrong, but that isn’t how I remember the conversation. Same here....I made it to the 2nd or 3rd page and stopped reading. You are probably correct that the direction/reasoning changed after being discussed further. It doesn’t really matter, I just remembered that I was a bit surprised when I read the thread for the first time. What got me the most Initially was that Howard was one of the coaches they hoped would leave. I wouldn’t have guessed that one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Leaving this up for now, but only for now, it’s a ridiculous and basically pointless “discussion” that just tosses a softball up for the few who actually buy into the ridiculous idea that talking about canning CAM after 21/2 seasons makes sense. Never mind it’s directly contrary to what the the great majority of DI programs do ( 5-6 years), never mind that he doesn’t have a complete cycle of his own recruits, never mind that he’s been Landing the best Indiana players, golly TJD, Romeo, never mind that multiple top coaches took several seasons at their schools before having any success and if they listened to this kind of drivel they never would’ve been successful, never mind that we’re 12-3, never mind that we’ve continuously had significant injuries and medical conditions to our best players, Rob, Romeo, Hunter, etc, never mind any of it, just throw out the coach, yeah that makes sense, pure genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 7 hours ago, 5 championships said: Thank you! It’s pretty sad to me... the amount of negativity around a team that is 12-3 is unbelievable. I feel the same as you. And this response is exactly what should be done. Rather than shutting down an entire thread. Now.... we both have gotten our thoughts expressed. Would not have happened had the thread been deleted. As far as the negativity. I am also on board with you on that. So much so, that I recently took a vacation, for about a week and a half due to it. Just could not take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Ballin Posted January 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Leaving this up for now, but only for now, it’s a ridiculous and basically pointless “discussion” that just tosses a softball up for the few who actually buy into the ridiculous idea that talking about canning CAM after 21/2 seasons makes sense. Never mind it’s directly contrary to what the the great majority of DI programs do ( 5-6 years), never mind that he doesn’t have a complete cycle of his own recruits, never mind that he’s been Landing the best Indiana players, golly TJD, Romeo, never mind that multiple top coaches took several seasons at their schools before having any success and if they listened to this kind of drivel they never would’ve been successful, never mind that we’re 12-3, never mind that we’ve continuously had significant injuries and medical conditions to our best players, Rob, Romeo, Hunter, etc, never mind any of it, just throw out the coach, yeah that makes sense, pure genius I said it at the begining, pull the plug on this at any time. I just happened to catch on tv last night them talking about some of Beileins strugles in the NBA and got to thinking "i wonder how how he would go over at IU"? Aparently I need to stop thinking cuz bad things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEKA Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 hours ago, CTrojan88 said: Archie’s teams have not improved.....if he misses the tournament again this year, he needs to go. And then what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUDan93 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 So, let's just say CAM is just an average coach. I don't think anyone could honestly say he isn't at least this good. Then let's all agree that IU basketball is a top 10 or better blue blood type sleeping giant program. Wouldn't it stand to reason that an average coach would be able to produce pretty decent outcomes at IU? This means that there are things outside the program that continue to limit our success. Too many people are pointing to the administration putting a governor on our engine. Dale Earnhardt wasn't gonna win anything driving his car with an sub-standard car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 i would say all coaches deserve 4 years unless something really bad happens or if he has lost the respect and control of his team. i'm not sure that's the case, but i'm starting to wonder. if he misses the tourney 4 straight years, i think that's enough for me, and i'd be willing to bet that's what we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy06 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 11 hours ago, IU Scott said: Any coach deserves 4 years unless there are off the court incidents. In general I agree. I think you have to look at each situation individually. I see the same thing now I saw in year 1. Can't shoot, sloppy passes, leaving shooters WIDE open from 3. If we miss the tournament again, and Archie comes back, there will be no recruiting momentum at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerawkid Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, BEKA said: And then what? Exactly. Be very careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 12 hours ago, 5 championships said: Please delete this thread With you all day long. Every thread is turning into replacement talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McHoop Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 hours ago, CTrojan88 said: I wouldn’t have guessed that one.... Personally, I wouldn't have guessed the conference coaches defending Crean and talking up his coaching abilities. Ulterior motives? Likely. Just like the situation with Miller. And Howard hasn't done anything yet to impress me @ UM. McHoop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 hours ago, milehiiu said: I feel the same as you. And this response is exactly what should be done. Rather than shutting down an entire thread. Now.... we both have gotten our thoughts expressed. Would not have happened had the thread been deleted. As far as the negativity. I am also on board with you on that. So much so, that I recently took a vacation, for about a week and a half due to it. Just could not take it. We are all on the same boat!! I have stayed away from the basketball portion of this board the last handful of games. It is so disheartening to see so much hatred and negativity from IU fans on such a well respected board. At times this place is just as bad as the other one. Very disappointing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Archie's not going anywhere soon...and rightfully so. #1 reason would be the buyout As of 2018 it was 17 million. I know it's probably reduced by some since then, but it's still pretty hefty. Shows me that the administration had the long view. #2 reason he can coach. I think that's pretty apparent to anyone who's watched the game for any amount of time. Side note: Bob Knight didn't say he liked CAM, he said he could coach. Big difference, and probably a harder statement to get out of RMK. I'm sure even in his partially debilitated state, he knows who can coach and who can't. Right now CAM is trying to hammer square pegs into round holes. He wants kid that are hard workers with a high basketball IQ, not just flashy athletic types. Looking at some of the changes I see in Justin Smith, I think he's done an admirable job taking parts that don't really fit the culture he's trying to establish and influencing their games. Lastly, I love John Beilein, and I think he's a really good coach, but for God's sake in a month the man will be 67 years old. Please... As far as the other "flavors of the month" neither Stevens nor Donavan are coming to IU. And for all the banter about Chris Beard, I'll remind people that Mike Davis went to an NCAA championship game, Tom Crean went to a final 4, and Kevin Ollie won the damn thing. I'll stick by the guy we've got, thank you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUaic Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Leaving this up for now, but only for now, it’s a ridiculous and basically pointless “discussion” that just tosses a softball up for the few who actually buy into the ridiculous idea that talking about canning CAM after 21/2 seasons makes sense. Never mind it’s directly contrary to what the the great majority of DI programs do ( 5-6 years), never mind that he doesn’t have a complete cycle of his own recruits, never mind that he’s been Landing the best Indiana players, golly TJD, Romeo, never mind that multiple top coaches took several seasons at their schools before having any success and if they listened to this kind of drivel they never would’ve been successful, never mind that we’re 12-3, never mind that we’ve continuously had significant injuries and medical conditions to our best players, Rob, Romeo, Hunter, etc, never mind any of it, just throw out the coach, yeah that makes sense, pure genius But he said Playing devils advocate. That's like saying 'With all due respect' before insulting someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Here's the problem with absolutes like miss the NCAAT four years and you're done. What if Davis makes the tip in against ARK last year and IU is in the first four instead of an NIT 1 seed. Does that mean CAM gets six years to prove himself, but since it didn't happen he has four? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 11 hours ago, CTrojan88 said: Coaches do not deserve 4 years if there has not been positive change or improvement from when they arrived. Archie’s teams have not improved.....if he misses the tournament again this year, he needs to go. Well we just will have to disagree on this topic and right now we are 12-3 and tied for 4th in the conference. Yes I was upset what I saw against NW and should know better than post during the game because it makes you post things you shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Archie's not going anywhere soon...and rightfully so. #1 reason would be the buyout As of 2018 it was 17 million. I know it's probably reduced by some since then, but it's still pretty hefty. Shows me that the administration had the long view. #2 reason he can coach. I think that's pretty apparent to anyone who's watched the game for any amount of time. Side note: Bob Knight didn't say he liked CAM, he said he could coach. Big difference, and probably a harder statement to get out of RMK. I'm sure even in his partially debilitated state, he knows who can coach and who can't. Right now CAM is trying to hammer square pegs into round holes. He wants kid that are hard workers with a high basketball IQ, not just flashy athletic types. Looking at some of the changes I see in Justin Smith, I think he's done an admirable job taking parts that don't really fit the culture he's trying to establish and influencing their games. Lastly, I love John Beilein, and I think he's a really good coach, but fir God's sake in a month the man will be 67 years old. Please... As far as the other "flavors of the month" neither Stevens nor Donavan are coming to IU. And for all the banter about Chris Beard, I'll remind people that Mike Davis went to an NCAA championship game, Tom Crean went to a final 4, and Kevin Ollie won the damn thing. I'll stick by the guy we've got, thank you... Isn’t the buyout offset by whatever he earns elsewhere? So it really isn’t a big deal. And this is a completely reasonable discussion. Miss the dance this season and I guarantee you he’s not the coach here much longer. Barring massive changes that looks likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 10 hours ago, IUwins0708 said: We’re just fans, we aren’t going to determine when a coach is fired. If that were the case Crean would’ve been fired after the Syracuse debacle. It’s just a debate guys. Geesh I agree with you but like other have said that recruits and their families see this kind of discussion and will have doubts. about coming to IU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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