Poster on TOS says 2 players "offered" their release from bball team.....

[Maedhros]

31 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

This makes no sense. Sorry. Try again.

Sure it does. FKIM01 did a great job just above. Let's try this: there's a real mob mentality this afternoon, on this board and others. People are posting single frames from an entire game, and claiming proof of their preconceived notions. As if they know a single thing that player is thinking or saying to his teammates, or dealing with personally at that moment in time. It's getting ugly out there, and why? Because our coach signaled his permission in front of the press.

Archie's always had his detractors. Getting run by Indiana State in your debut will do that. But it took a turn in the last month or so, and even some who had supported him completely began to express their doubts. Those supporters are back on board, and all it took was for coach to call out his upperclassmen. The same players he's been coaching for two and a half years. The same players, De'Ron and his injuries aside, to whom he's been giving the most minutes all season long. And only now, with the Big Ten season looming and the possibility of missing the Tournament, is when he wants to start talking about accountability and buy in?

I don't want to hear him talk about it. The same way I don't want to hear about what our guys looked like in practice, or how we're going to have an eleven man rotation, or how our guys really can shoot from three after all. I want to see it on the court. Archie says a lot of great of things, but in his time at Indiana he's not yet proved capable of finding the right buttons to push to produce results. He's not earned my benefit of the doubt. I have no reason to believe new tougher Archie is going to be any more effective than the version we've seen for three seasons now. Neither does anyone suddenly convinced we're back on the right track. I need to see it in the court first. Then he can tell us how it did it. There's no reason he needed to call his guys out in public pressers, nothing that couldn't be accomplished behind closed doors. But it sure got people talking about our players, Archie's players, instead of Archie.

[Hoosier83]

27 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Skip to the 10 min. mark. This team has issues and Archie  says it. And of course he says some older guys.

Ohh, he said Simon Scott and not Assmbly Hall, CMON Coach!!! I know I didn’t spell Scott how it’s actually spelled. 

[DWB]

Since most of you have admitted that this discussion is purely speculation, based on the OP info, I have to say:

1. All of you are a class act in the way you debate (or in this case speculate)
2. More possibilities stated here that are all feasible, than one might imagine
3. Whatever happens, if anything, I hope will be beneficial to the team and appreciated by all of us fans.
4. This thread is more entertaining (unfortunately) than the last 3 IU games combined.

I tip my hat to all of you.

[Leathernecks]

It will be interesting to see how the team plays in the next few weeks.  If the majority of the team agrees with Archie and thinks a couple guys aren't working hard and need to see the bench, this could work well.  If the majority of the team likes the guys getting called out better, this could go poorly for Archie.  Based on the fact that Green was voted as a captain, I worry this calling out was 2 years too late, but hopefully not.

[zerawkid]

1 hour ago, Maedhros said:

It's been a little scary to see how easily and swiftly a coach who's been underperforming for three years now, with three different teams, has been able to redirect so much fan frustration from himself on to his players with just one postgame press conference. Before we've seen any actual actions or improvements in play.

Have you watched the team and some of the players’ attitudes? 
 

Or, are you here to troll?

[Hoosier987]

15 minutes ago, zerawkid said:

Have you watched the team and some of the players’ attitudes? 
 

Or, are you here to troll?

Troll 

[bluegrassIU]

5 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Troll 

Nah, he is a long time member with an opinion. 

[5fouls]

22 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

Nah, he is a long time member with an opinion. 

 

1 hour ago, Maedhros said:

Sure it does. FKIM01 did a great job just above. Let's try this: there's a real mob mentality this afternoon, on this board and others. People are posting single frames from an entire game, and claiming proof of their preconceived notions. As if they know a single thing that player is thinking or saying to his teammates, or dealing with personally at that moment in time. It's getting ugly out there, and why? Because our coach signaled his permission in front of the press.

Archie's always had his detractors. Getting run by Indiana State in your debut will do that. But it took a turn in the last month or so, and even some who had supported him completely began to express their doubts. Those supporters are back on board, and all it took was for coach to call out his upperclassmen. The same players he's been coaching for two and a half years. The same players, De'Ron and his injuries aside, to whom he's been giving the most minutes all season long. And only now, with the Big Ten season looming and the possibility of missing the Tournament, is when he wants to start talking about accountability and buy in?

I don't want to hear him talk about it. The same way I don't want to hear about what our guys looked like in practice, or how we're going to have an eleven man rotation, or how our guys really can shoot from three after all. I want to see it on the court. Archie says a lot of great of things, but in his time at Indiana he's not yet proved capable of finding the right buttons to push to produce results. He's not earned my benefit of the doubt. I have no reason to believe new tougher Archie is going to be any more effective than the version we've seen for three seasons now. Neither does anyone suddenly convinced we're back on the right track. I need to see it in the court first. Then he can tell us how it did it. There's no reason he needed to call his guys out in public pressers, nothing that couldn't be accomplished behind closed doors. But it sure got people talking about our players, Archie's players, instead of Archie.

And, maybe, just maybe Archie has run out of other options.  Do you feel he hasn't addressed some things with Devonte behind closed doors multiple times already?  He was suspended three games last year for goodness sake.

If anything, Archie waited too long to bring these issues public.  He's tried to do it privately and it actually seemed to work for a while.  But, something changed and here we are.

Edit:  did not mean to quote Blue.

[JugRox]

1 hour ago, Maedhros said:

Sure it does. FKIM01 did a great job just above. Let's try this: there's a real mob mentality this afternoon, on this board and others. People are posting single frames from an entire game, and claiming proof of their preconceived notions. As if they know a single thing that player is thinking or saying to his teammates, or dealing with personally at that moment in time. It's getting ugly out there, and why? Because our coach signaled his permission in front of the press.

Archie's always had his detractors. Getting run by Indiana State in your debut will do that. But it took a turn in the last month or so, and even some who had supported him completely began to express their doubts. Those supporters are back on board, and all it took was for coach to call out his upperclassmen. The same players he's been coaching for two and a half years. The same players, De'Ron and his injuries aside, to whom he's been giving the most minutes all season long. And only now, with the Big Ten season looming and the possibility of missing the Tournament, is when he wants to start talking about accountability and buy in?

I don't want to hear him talk about it. The same way I don't want to hear about what our guys looked like in practice, or how we're going to have an eleven man rotation, or how our guys really can shoot from three after all. I want to see it on the court. Archie says a lot of great of things, but in his time at Indiana he's not yet proved capable of finding the right buttons to push to produce results. He's not earned my benefit of the doubt. I have no reason to believe new tougher Archie is going to be any more effective than the version we've seen for three seasons now. Neither does anyone suddenly convinced we're back on the right track. I need to see it in the court first. Then he can tell us how it did it. There's no reason he needed to call his guys out in public pressers, nothing that couldn't be accomplished behind closed doors. But it sure got people talking about our players, Archie's players, instead of Archie.

Miller will be here at least 2 years because of the buyout.

Up to you how you want to spend it. 

[Hoosier987]

50 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

 

And, maybe, just maybe Archie has run out of other options.  Do you feel he hasn't addressed some things with Devonte behind closed doors multiple times already?  He was suspended three games last year for goodness sake.

If anything, Archie waited too long to bring these issues public.  He's tried to do it privately and it actually seemed to work for a while.  But, something changed and here we are.

Edit:  did not mean to quote Blue.

Arch was hoping for some maturity....hasn’t happened yet.  Yet we’re 12-3! 

[Muddy River]

The reason Deron sits is because if he stands up, it's likely to be called a foul, and since he wouldn't be in the game, it would be a technical, giving the other team free throws.  He's keeping the other team from scoring by sitting....it's defense. 

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Arch was hoping for some maturity....hasn’t happened yet. 

Still paying for Creans mistakes. Upper class man aren’t leadership material and he didn’t bring them in. Brought in Brunk so he is trying to inject some leadership. Nobody wanted to go through another walk on rebuild but it’s clear it’s what should have happened when he came in. Wouldn’t have landed Romeo doing that but maybe long term would have been the right move. 

[BADGERVOL]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Still paying for Creans mistakes. Upper class man aren’t leadership material and he didn’t bring them in. Brought in Brunk so he is trying to inject some leadership. Nobody wanted to go through another walk on rebuild but it’s clear it’s what should have happened when he came in. Wouldn’t have landed Romeo doing that but maybe long term would have been the right move. 

This might be accurate and the problem is it creates a leak onto next classes that come in. 

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

This might be accurate and the problem is it creates a leak onto next classes that come in. 

I had no problem with Creans up and downs with his recruiting and finishes in the B1G...but besides his coaching flaws was the last few years the recruiting cratered and we did not bring in high basketball iq kids or had a vocal leader. As good as Morgan was for us I wasn’t impressed with his leadership skills. Archie I think is trying to change that with guys like Armaan, Trayce, and Brunk but you can’t change culture that quickly.

[Rogermci]

2 hours ago, Maedhros said:

Sure it does. FKIM01 did a great job just above. Let's try this: there's a real mob mentality this afternoon, on this board and others. People are posting single frames from an entire game, and claiming proof of their preconceived notions. As if they know a single thing that player is thinking or saying to his teammates, or dealing with personally at that moment in time. It's getting ugly out there, and why? Because our coach signaled his permission in front of the press.

Archie's always had his detractors. Getting run by Indiana State in your debut will do that. But it took a turn in the last month or so, and even some who had supported him completely began to express their doubts. Those supporters are back on board, and all it took was for coach to call out his upperclassmen. The same players he's been coaching for two and a half years. The same players, De'Ron and his injuries aside, to whom he's been giving the most minutes all season long. And only now, with the Big Ten season looming and the possibility of missing the Tournament, is when he wants to start talking about accountability and buy in?

I don't want to hear him talk about it. The same way I don't want to hear about what our guys looked like in practice, or how we're going to have an eleven man rotation, or how our guys really can shoot from three after all. I want to see it on the court. Archie says a lot of great of things, but in his time at Indiana he's not yet proved capable of finding the right buttons to push to produce results. He's not earned my benefit of the doubt. I have no reason to believe new tougher Archie is going to be any more effective than the version we've seen for three seasons now. Neither does anyone suddenly convinced we're back on the right track. I need to see it in the court first. Then he can tell us how it did it. There's no reason he needed to call his guys out in public pressers, nothing that couldn't be accomplished behind closed doors. But it sure got people talking about our players, Archie's players, instead of Archie.

Why not give Archie a chance with his own players?  He's going to be here through next year.  Bashing him now serves no productive purpose.  

[Brass Cannon]

1 hour ago, Rogermci said:

Why not give Archie a chance with his own players?  He's going to be here through next year.  Bashing him now serves no productive purpose.  

Here’s the thing. Look at Archie’s non first year players

Race, Damezi, Hunter, Phinisee

These guys we’re supposed to be a core but other than Rob they can’t help the team really. Yeah to some extent you can say injuries but that still no reason to not seem to understand the system. 
 

To Archies credit the 3 first year players are helping now but those first 4 need to be a usable core that can offer us something. Or else next year is going to be just as rough. 

[HoosierDom]

9 hours ago, HoosierDom said:

I'm willing to excuse the first one as we don't know exactly when it was taken and there wasn't a single, game changing moment against NW, but this one says a lot about where De'Ron is with this team. Maybe it hurts to just be standing in one spot, but that right hand is just sitting on the chair, it's not pumping in the air, it's not clapping, he's not yelling. He doesn't care. I always thought Dakich (how nice is it not have him doing IU games so far?) was unfairly and inappropriately tough on De'Ron, but this gels with the attitude problems Dakich alluded to. 

I take it back. Except for the stuff about Dakich. Go to our team page on espn, the still shot they have of our Notre Dame highlights is from a second or two later and Davis is up and yelling. 

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, bobtcat2 said:

Yep.  Didn't like it at all.  I was optimistic when he was hired but the lack of player development is very troubling, regardless of whether they're "his" recruits.  Isn't it his job to motivate them?  I doubt any of these players are bad people, bad teammates, or lazy, very unlikely they could have gotten to this level if they were.

And its just as equally likely that they didnt get this far without being able to motivate themselves. 

Idk what the term bad teammates means? Continuously not doing what the coach asks.. would you consider someone a good teammate if they can't follow orders?

We have NO clue what goes on behind closed doors. None. Archie could have had every right to call players out in a press conference you or I have zero clue. 

[btownqb]

A coach told me.. either they "cant" or they "won't".. the result is the same. 

Play the guys who doing things the coaches ask. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

5 hours ago, 5fouls said:

 

Edit:  did not mean to quote Blue.

Who would? 
 

😂

[Dawg Bawls]

15 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Mile was my 5th wife.

Love it!!!!

[Rogermci]

9 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Here’s the thing. Look at Archie’s non first year players

Race, Damezi, Hunter, Phinisee

These guys we’re supposed to be a core but other than Rob they can’t help the team really. Yeah to some extent you can say injuries but that still no reason to not seem to understand the system. 
 

To Archies credit the 3 first year players are helping now but those first 4 need to be a usable core that can offer us something. Or else next year is going to be just as rough. 

Agree, but we have a half season to go.  When I said give him a chance let's back off on the bashing until season end.  

[Parakeet Jones]

So...

[dgambill]

13 minutes ago, Parakeet Jones said:

So...

Whatever was said...whatever happened behind closed doors...the point got across today. Now these are young kids....it might have to be made again but it is clear Archie has the pulse of the team. He may not have the right guys just yet but he knows his team and he isn’t blind to what is going on. 

[addictedtoIU]

On 1/10/2020 at 12:47 PM, dbmhoosier said:

Chris on BB, who is clearly in the know, said Archie lit the whole team up like a Christmas tree after the game Wednesday.  Said he hadn’t heard of anything like it since the RMK days.

Way to go Archie. Players are supposed to be warriors when they're on the court. No more Mr. Nice Guy.