South Florida Game Thread

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

19 points for them in 2nd half. 

Rob: 9-14 FG's and 3-3 from the arc for 21 points, 4 boards, 3 assists. 

 

[hoosier10]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

It's funny how it seems whoever gets badmouthed (Morgan and Johnson) plays better and whoever gets praised (Green) lays an egg next game.

Was having this exact conversation earlier.  If we can get some consistent play we'll be a pretty decent team.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

It's funny how it seems whoever gets badmouthed (Morgan and Johnson) plays better and whoever gets praised (Green) lays an egg next game.

This is a testament to the judgments passed after every game. Morgan and RoJo are very important to this season. Good to see them both have strong games, and hopefully it reflects their getting into the flow in CAM's system and getting into the swing of things.

[BobSaccamanno]

Al Durham 4 assists and no turnovers.  What’s not to like?   Like his toughness too.  

I like Green a lot but man he’s a slow learner on unforced errors.  He just can’t seem to settle himself down.  Once he makes the more simple, fundamental play instead of the sports center play, he’s going to be a beast.  

Johnson was brilliant.  That’s his game, scoring.  He can score at every level.  Don’t let him control the ball, though.  3 assists and 3 turnovers.  For his career he’s been 2.6/2.1.  As a senior, hopefully he will improve but at the end of the day, just let him work off the ball, get loose for jumpers and let him drive when he has the step.  

Davis is improving.  He is going to be really good as a senior.  He still needs to upgrade his conditioning and body.  He’s lost some weight but there’s more to go turning flab into muscle. He needs to upgrade his agility on defense and especially his quickness to the ball on rebounds.  He’s coming along nicely but he’s got a lot more potential defensively and on the glass.

I thought Morgan was unfairly maligned earlier in the year.  He’s a gamer.  He’s a reliable rebounder, and is a smart player.  I’d hate to think about where our defense would be without him.   I don’t think he will ever have a great touch scoring but he does so many positive things for us.  

[madmax]

39 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

This is a testament to the judgments passed after every game. Morgan and RoJo are very important to this season. Good to see them both have strong games, and hopefully it reflects their getting into the flow in CAM's system and getting into the swing of things.

Yeah unfortunately there is a segment of our fan base that seems to overreact about our players very quickly.

I personally just find it funny that everyone has so incredibly critical of Rojo, talking about how he is lazy, or he hasn't bought in, etc etc etc. But every time CAM speaks it's nothing but praise for his defense, effort, and work ethic. It cracks me up. And I really don't buy that CAM is just blowing smoke so that he can keep Rojo motivated. I don't buy that one bit-it's not Archie's style. So who should I believe? HSN or Archie? With all due respect...

Sometimes I think our fans watch games and pick petals off a flower as they vacillate between whether or not they currently like a particular player. "I love Rojo, I love him not, I love Rojo...."

[iuthruandthru]

1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

I'll never discount anyone's opinion but I don't know of one IU fan that wanted Alford. That includes 4 generations of IU fandom on one side of the family. 

Trust me they are around.  Those comments by those guys in the stands are not uncommon.  The same guys that have wanted a “Knight” guy here for years.  They are not hard to find.

[KoB2011]

We've got some good players, just not enough.  Hopefully, Hartman gets at least one game before 5 game stretch of doom.

Al - RoJo - Hartman - Morgan - Davis

Green - Smith - Newkirk/CuJo

 

That's a workable 8 man rotation to compete with all those teams, sans Duke. 

[Proud2BAHoosier]

53 minutes ago, madmax said:

Yeah unfortunately there is a segment of our fan base that seems to overreact about our players very quickly.

I personally just find it funny that everyone has so incredibly critical of Rojo, talking about how he is lazy, or he hasn't bought in, etc etc etc. But every time CAM speaks it's nothing but praise for his defense, effort, and work ethic. It cracks me up. And I really don't buy that CAM is just blowing smoke so that he can keep Rojo motivated. I don't buy that one bit-it's not Archie's style. So who should I believe? HSN or Archie? With all due respect...

Sometimes I think our fans watch games and pick petals off a flower as they vacillate between whether or not they currently like a particular player. "I love Rojo, I love him not, I love Rojo...."

Let's see how Rojo does in the next few game... K???

[bluegrassIU]

1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Al Durham 4 assists and no turnovers.  What’s not to like?   Like his toughness too.  

I like Green a lot but man he’s a slow learner on unforced errors.  He just can’t seem to settle himself down.  Once he makes the more simple, fundamental play instead of the sports center play, he’s going to be a beast.  

Johnson was brilliant.  That’s his game, scoring.  He can score at every level.  Don’t let him control the ball, though.  3 assists and 3 turnovers.  For his career he’s been 2.6/2.1.  As a senior, hopefully he will improve but at the end of the day, just let him work off the ball, get loose for jumpers and let him drive when he has the step.  

Davis is improving.  He is going to be really good as a senior.  He still needs to upgrade his conditioning and body.  He’s lost some weight but there’s more to go turning flab into muscle. He needs to upgrade his agility on defense and especially his quickness to the ball on rebounds.  He’s coming along nicely but he’s got a lot more potential defensively and on the glass.

I thought Morgan was unfairly maligned earlier in the year.  He’s a gamer.  He’s a reliable rebounder, and is a smart player.  I’d hate to think about where our defense would be without him.   I don’t think he will ever have a great touch scoring but he does so many positive things for us.  

All Durham has been a very pasant surprise! 

[Bushmage]

2 hours ago, madmax said:

Yeah unfortunately there is a segment of our fan base that seems to overreact about our players very quickly.

I personally just find it funny that everyone has so incredibly critical of Rojo, talking about how he is lazy, or he hasn't bought in, etc etc etc. But every time CAM speaks it's nothing but praise for his defense, effort, and work ethic. It cracks me up. And I really don't buy that CAM is just blowing smoke so that he can keep Rojo motivated. I don't buy that one bit-it's not Archie's style. So who should I believe? HSN or Archie? With all due respect...

Sometimes I think our fans watch games and pick petals off a flower as they vacillate between whether or not they currently like a particular player. "I love Rojo, I love him not, I love Rojo...."

I sincerely think you're missing the true middle ground with Rob. He has not given his full effort in multiple stretches this season (including tonight with some total lapses of effort for easy boards), and he has not really been the unifying leader we need so far. The latter part is pretty subjective so I'm willing to chalk that up to just my own opinion. But make no mistake, we need more from him. He does deserve credit for turning it on in the 2nd half tonight (along with Juwan) but the reason there has been criticism of him is because it has not been a sustained effort this year.

 

This is not to say Rob is a useless player that IU doesn't need, it's the total opposite. That's where the frustration lies. Of course Archie isn't gonna grill his guys to the media 4 games into the season, and of course a fan on a message board during a game is going to be critical. I don't think it is completely one or the other.

[madmax]

1 hour ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

Let's see how Rojo does in the next few game... K???

Proud,

You are proving my point. How about we avoid basing judgements of work ethic and buy in off of more than one game.

14 minutes ago, Bushmage said:

I sincerely think you're missing the true middle ground with Rob. He has not given his full effort in multiple stretches this season (including tonight with some total lapses of effort for easy boards), and he has not really been the unifying leader we need so far. The latter part is pretty subjective so I'm willing to chalk that up to just my own opinion. But make no mistake, we need more from him. He does deserve credit for turning it on in the 2nd half tonight (along with Juwan) but the reason there has been criticism of him is because it has not been a sustained effort this year.

 

This is not to say Rob is a useless player that IU doesn't need, it's the total opposite. That's where the frustration lies. Of course Archie isn't gonna grill his guys to the media 4 games into the season, and of course a fan on a message board during a game is going to be critical. I don't think it is completely one or the other.

Bush,

You are probably right that there is more of a middle ground that I am missing. But if you notice, I'm not proclaiming RoJo to be the savior of the 2017-2018 IU basketball season. However I am saying that it is too quick to make judgements about whether he has bought in or not. Time will tell, but all signs at this point to him having bought in. I suppose part of the reason I posted was in reaction to much of what I heard at SSAH last night-people moaning and groaning about Rojo. I think you and I are probably closer on the topic than my post would indicate.

 

[hoosier10]

2 hours ago, madmax said:

Yeah unfortunately there is a segment of our fan base that seems to overreact about our players very quickly.

I personally just find it funny that everyone has so incredibly critical of Rojo, talking about how he is lazy, or he hasn't bought in, etc etc etc. But every time CAM speaks it's nothing but praise for his defense, effort, and work ethic. It cracks me up. And I really don't buy that CAM is just blowing smoke so that he can keep Rojo motivated. I don't buy that one bit-it's not Archie's style. So who should I believe? HSN or Archie? With all due respect...

Sometimes I think our fans watch games and pick petals off a flower as they vacillate between whether or not they currently like a particular player. "I love Rojo, I love him not, I love Rojo...."

Fans had every right to be critical of him and still do. Between last year and the way he's played this season, I am not near being sold that he's figured it out. Tonight was a big step in the right direction, but it's one game against a mediocre opponent. After a year plus of poor play, tonight isn't changing my opinion yet.

[5fouls]

7 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

We've got some good players, just not enough.  Hopefully, Hartman gets at least one game before 5 game stretch of doom.

Al - RoJo - Hartman - Morgan - Davis

Green - Smith - Newkirk/CuJo

 

That's a workable 8 man rotation to compete with all those teams, sans Duke. 

Yep.  That seems to be the most reliable rotation once Hartman is healthy.

[5fouls]

6 hours ago, bluegrassIU said:

All Durham has been a very pasant surprise! 

One of those 'let's see the kid perform before we pass judgment on him because of his ranking' situations.  People were moving him off the team to make room for Garland.  

[IUwins0708]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

One of those 'let's see the kid perform before we pass judgment on him because of his ranking' situations.  People were moving him off the team to make room for Garland.  

Yes, and now after seeing him plus getting Phinessee, we are looking good at the point for years to come.  I like that Al has some size too him as well.  Al can finish at the rim well for a freshman who could add a lot to his frame.  Excited about all the freshmen’s futures at IU.

[hoosier10]

2 hours ago, IUwins0708 said:

Yes, and now after seeing him plus getting Phinessee, we are looking good at the point for years to come.  I like that Al has some size too him as well.  Al can finish at the rim well for a freshman who could add a lot to his frame.  Excited about all the freshmen’s futures at IU.

His size is what has me most excited. We haven't had a PG with height in a long time. 

[ButlerHoosier]

12 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Idiots sitting behind me. Had to bite my tongue.

idiot 1: gotta give Archie time. 

Idiot 2: this is Indiana. You don’t get time. Should have brought in Alford. 

Idiot 1: at least he would have filled the seats. 

And we would have three kids be dumb enough to steal stuff over in a different country right now. That to me translates to bad decision making which has no place in basketball. 

[FW_Hoosier]

8 hours ago, madmax said:

Bush,

You are probably right that there is more of a middle ground that I am missing. But if you notice, I'm not proclaiming RoJo to be the savior of the 2017-2018 IU basketball season. However I am saying that it is too quick to make judgements about whether he has bought in or not. Time will tell, but all signs at this point to him having bought in. I suppose part of the reason I posted was in reaction to much of what I heard at SSAH last night-people moaning and groaning about Rojo. I think you and I are probably closer on the topic than my post would indicate.

 

Really don’t think that one good game against a really bad South Florida team means that all signs point to him having bought in.  As much as there may have been overreactions to his bad games (guilty), this seems like an overreaction in the opposite direction.  On balance, RoJo has been sloppy and ineffective to start the season.  His demeanor also hasn’t looked good, but I guess that’s just the type of player he is.  

We’re going to need him to play like he did last night every night from here on out.  Nice to see him hitting from three, hopefully that carries over into the rest of the season. 

[tdhoosier]

Easier said than done. But it seems like the key is confidence and hopefully that will come as they get more comfortable in the system. We have enough talent to be decent, but seem tentative right now, and then we overcompensate and that snowballs into slopyness. 

Yesterday gave me some great glimpses that I hope we can capitalize on. When we are attacking the paint through inlet passes or driving the offense actually looks pretty good. There was a possession yesterday that must've had 6 good passes that lead to a layup where the everybody seemed to be on the same page and knew exactly what to do! 

The turnaround in the second half was lead by Juwan Morgan (who in the second half had something like 14 points, 7 rebounds, a block and a couple of steals) and Robert Johnson. No coincidence....we need the upper classmen to step-up or we're doomed. As much as I'm loving these freshmen, we won't be having success without Morgan and Johnson stepping up consistently. I don't doubt that it's not an easy task for them because they really have a tough adaptation. Crean to Archie is a 180 in many situations....it'll take time to erase the instincts they've developed over their 3-4 years. I'm crossing my fingers that they settle into Archie's system before it's too late and the season is a lost cause.  

[Reacher]

I think the +/- is really a telling a stat. Our leaders from this last game-

Durham +24

Johnson +20

Smith +13

Morgan +11 (Surprised he wasn't higher with his stat line)

Good to see the 2 freshman having an impact. Interestingly, Al has the lowest turnover % on the team as well.

[Hoosierhoopster]

10 hours ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

Let's see how Rojo does in the next few game... K???

Certainly fair to watch how he handles things through the season, as it is for any player. But madmax's points are also fair ... K???

Instead of judging him on any one game -- which has been a tendency -- let's instead see how he does going forward? 

How has he done so far, this year?

Exhibitions:

Marian -- Bad shooting game, 3-13/ But 4 assists to 0 TO's, 1 steal.

UIndy -- 7 of 15 for 18 points, 5 boards, 3 steals, 1 assists, 1 TO. Strong game.

Reg. Season Games:

IN State - Bad game. 2 of 8 for 7 points, 2 assists to 4 TO's, 1 steal. 

Howard - 5-8 for 15 (2-4 from the arc), 4 assists to 1 TO, 4 boards, 1 steal. 

Seton Hall - 5 of 10 for 12, 5 boards, 3 assists to 3 TO's, 1 steal.

S Fla - 9 of 14 (and 3-3 from arc) for 21, 4 boards, 2 blocks, 3 assists to 3 TO's.

 

He's had one bad game, and one very bad shooting game. In the 3 games since IN State, he has shot 19 of 32. Consistency and continuing strong play over time are fair to watch for, jumping on a bad game with finger pointing, in my book, is wasted angst.

 

 

 

 

 

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Certainly fair to watch how he handles things through the season, as it is for any player. But madmax's points are also fair ... K???

Instead of judging him on any one game -- which has been a tendency -- let's instead see how he does going forward? 

How has he done so far, this year?

Exhibitions:

Marian -- Bad shooting game, 3-13/ But 4 assists to 0 TO's, 1 steal.

UIndy -- 7 of 15 for 18 points, 5 boards, 3 steals, 1 assists, 1 TO. Strong game.

IN State - Bad game. 2 of 8 for 7 points, 2 assists to 4 TO's, 1 steal. 

Howard - 5-8 for 15 (2-4 from the arc), 4 assists to 1 TO, 4 boards, 1 steal. 

Seton Hall - 5 of 10 for 12, 5 boards, 3 assists to 3 TO's, 1 steal.

S Fla - 9 of 14 (and 3-3 from arc) for 21, 4 boards, 2 blocks, 3 assists to 3 TO's.

 

He's had one bad game, and one very bad shooting game. In the 3 games since IN State, he has shot 19 of 32. Consistency and continuing strong play over time are fair to watch for, jumping on a bad game with finger pointing, in my book, is wasted angst.

 

 

 

 

 

These numbers would be ok if they were against decent competition.  They are not.  They are against teams he should be dominating.  The stretch of Duke to Notre Dame will tell us what we need to know.

[tdhoosier]

5 minutes ago, Reacher said:

I think the +/- is really a telling a stat. Our leaders from this last game-

Durham +24

Johnson +20

Smith +13

Morgan +11 (Surprised he wasn't higher with his stat line)

Good to see the 2 freshman having an impact. Interestingly, Al has the lowest turnover % on the team as well.

Did just read the right stats? Al has the 2nd most minutes on the team this year and has only 2 turnovers????

[Hoosierhoopster]

4 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

These numbers would be ok if they were against decent competition.  They are not.  They are against teams he should be dominating.  The stretch of Duke to Notre Dame will tell us what we need to know.

Disagree. This is basically cherry picking. Like other players, he's redefining his role in CAM's system and getting acclimated. There's a reason why CAM keeps talking about how he's the hardest worker in practice and how impressed he is with him, and no it's not to prop him up, it's because he is the hardest worker and he has the ability to be a really good player. It is fair to judge him against good teams -- do we just throw out the first half of last year, against multiple strong teams, to support a position, or do we watch him over he course of the season and see how he performs? Sure, he shouldn't fall off again in impact like he did the latter half of last season (when JBJ was the focal perimeter scorer). But your post suggest he can't perform well against strong teams, and there's no support for that. Let's see how he does over the course of the season.

[Hoosierhoopster]

8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Did just read the right stats? Al has the 2nd most minutes on the team this year and has only 2 turnovers????

I was just about to talk about how well he does taking care of the ball. He's played some big minutes and he rarely loses the rock. Really love watching this kid continue to impress. Talk about undervalued.