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1 hour ago, Muddy River said:

So, poking around some numbers this morning, and I came across something I found fascinating.  Against the last three ranked teams on our schedule (OSU, MD, and FSU) Devonte shot 10/17 from 3 and scored 67 points.  Against the last three non-ranked teams (Neb, Rutgers, and NW), he shot 1/9 from 3 and scored 4 points.  I guess that is the definition of playing to your competition (or inconsistency).  I hope this pattern holds true as we get into the thick of the B1G schedule.

Good find, but remember, Devonte got a lot of his points vs Maryland when the game was already decided...13 of his 18 points came from 3:29 to go until the game was over (I looked at the play by play here)...

 

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5 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Good find, but remember, Devonte got a lot of his points vs Maryland when the game was already decided...13 of his 18 points came from 3:29 to go until the game was over (I looked at the play by play here)...

 

I don't think this is fair. Green is just up and down, or streaky, but he's had some monster games including this year in one of our most important wins. Critiquing his consistency, penchant for not involving him teammates at times, etc. is fine, but i don't buy into looking for ways to undermine the games when in which he was clearly a key offensive player.

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3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't think this is fair. Green is just up and down, or streaky, but he's had some monster games including this year in one of our most important wins. Critiquing his consistency, penchant for not involving him teammates at times, etc. is fine, but i don't buy into looking for ways to undermine the games when in which he was clearly a key offensive player.

Facts are always fair...

The point was made (and I acknowledged it as a good find) that Devonte seemed to excel against better competition...I simply cautioned that in one of the cited games, Devonte's line was skewed by points he got against second teamers/walk-ons in mop-up time...

Nothing more...

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The only thing more up and down than Green's play, is IU fans' opinion of him.

A week and a half ago, there was a long thread here with people speculating he was about to be kicked off the team, and another thread with people posting lineups projecting him for 0-5 minutes per game going forward. The very next day he played 29 minutes and put up 19 PTS on only 8 FG attempts, with 0 TO in a win over OSU.

Now he's had two bad games in a row and people are down on him again. Knowing Devonte, that means he's due for a great game Thursday night.

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2 hours ago, Shooter said:

The only thing more up and down than Green's play, is IU fans' opinion of him.

A week and a half ago, there was a long thread here with people speculating he was about to be kicked off the team, and another thread with people posting lineups projecting him for 0-5 minutes per game going forward. The very next day he played 29 minutes and put up 19 PTS on only 8 FG attempts, with 0 TO in a win over OSU.

Now he's had two bad games in a row and people are down on him again. Knowing Devonte, that means he's due for a great game Thursday night.

Great post.

its almost as if Devonte, like many many other players, struggles with consistency. Did I think he would still be in this spot as a senior? No. Am I glad he is? No. It is what it is at this point-we just need to accept him for what he is. A streaky shooter who can get his own shot, can make terrific assists but also can go for the big play too much. It’s basically who he has been for 4 years. 

Love him or hate him I think it’s important for people to realize two things:

1. We will not be an NCAA tournament team without some form of Devonte playing well. He is too important to this team for us to succeed without him. This whole notion of “give 0-5 minutes a game” is a joke.

2. He has stayed when many, many other players would have transferred. He’s playing for a coach who didn’t recruit him and whose style is almost entirely opposite of who he is as a player. We probably don’t get a good many of our best wins over the past 2 or 3 years without him(I.e Florida State).

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We have seen guys like Devonte in the past.  He is an enigma to the fan base and probably an enigma to the coaching staff as well.  He has the tools and the ability to excel, and does at times, but more often than not we are left scratching our heads.  

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7 hours ago, madmax said:

1. We will not be an NCAA tournament team without some form of Devonte playing well. He is too important to this team for us to succeed without him. This whole notion of “give 0-5 minutes a game” is a joke.

I can't agree with this. He's played well in 3 of our 10 games since FSU, and we've won 6 of those, so he's not essential to getting Ws. His value at this point is getting some rest time for the guys who are producing, and maybe getting some extra minutes if he's playing well, which has now become the exception instead of the norm. We've won games in spite of his poor play, including this latest Nebraska game. While I agree he needs to play more than 0-5 minutes a game, it certainly doesn't need to be more than 10-15 if we're getting "bad" Devonte.

I get it - he's had a rough past and has been dealt a tough hand with the change in coaches. Plenty of players go through adversity, though, and there are tons of guys that would love to be in the situation he's in.

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16 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I get it - he's had a rough past and has been dealt a tough hand with the change in coaches. Plenty of players go through adversity, though, and there are tons of guys that would love to be in the situation he's in.

He's also had 4 YEARS to grow up, and become a team player. I still see the same Devonte that I saw 4 years ago, with perhaps a little better defense. I just think he tries to play Hero ball far too much. When he shoots in the flow of the offense, he's much more efficient. When he doesn't try to make the 1% chance pass, he's a good passer, he sees the floor well, and has some god given gifts.

But his mindset is way out of wack in the scheme of Archie's offense. I still think he thinks he's back in NY and playing playground ball. But that's just me.

I'd rather see Armaan on the floor more, and let Devonte relieve him when he needs a blow.

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28 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I can't agree with this. He's played well in 3 of our 10 games since FSU, and we've won 6 of those, so he's not essential to getting Ws. His value at this point is getting some rest time for the guys who are producing, and maybe getting some extra minutes if he's playing well, which has now become the exception instead of the norm. We've won games in spite of his poor play, including this latest Nebraska game. While I agree he needs to play more than 0-5 minutes a game, it certainly doesn't need to be more than 10-15 if we're getting "bad" Devonte.

I get it - he's had a rough past and has been dealt a tough hand with the change in coaches. Plenty of players go through adversity, though, and there are tons of guys that would love to be in the situation he's in.

Sorry but this team is simply not deep enough nor talented enough to expect a nice run conference and tournament without a solid Devonte.  I'm with you, can't afford bad devonte so a warm bench is fine at times.  But with the oft injured Rob and a nice frosh in Armaan, a hot and steady Devonte like the one we saw at the end of the year least year would easily make this a top 25 team with potential to beat anyone on any given night.  That's all we can hope for.  

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7 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Sorry but this team is simply not deep enough nor talented enough to expect a nice run conference and tournament without a solid Devonte.  I'm with you, can't afford bad devonte so a warm bench is fine at times.  But with the oft injured Rob and a nice frosh in Armaan, a hot and steady Devonte like the one we saw at the end of the year least year would easily make this a top 25 team with potential to beat anyone on any given night.  That's all we can hope for.  

That's not what I was responding to - the poster I was responding to said we can't make the tournament at all without him. There's a difference between just making the tournament and making a run in it. 

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Just now, AxnJxn said:

That's not what I was responding to - the poster I was responding to said we can't make the tournament at all without him. There's a difference between just making the tournament and making a run in it. 

Agree.  

Can't have wild DG and make the tourney, really.  Margin of error is thin for a non shooting team. 

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1 hour ago, AxnJxn said:

I can't agree with this. He's played well in 3 of our 10 games since FSU, and we've won 6 of those, so he's not essential to getting Ws. His value at this point is getting some rest time for the guys who are producing, and maybe getting some extra minutes if he's playing well, which has now become the exception instead of the norm. We've won games in spite of his poor play, including this latest Nebraska game. While I agree he needs to play more than 0-5 minutes a game, it certainly doesn't need to be more than 10-15 if we're getting "bad" Devonte.

I get it - he's had a rough past and has been dealt a tough hand with the change in coaches. Plenty of players go through adversity, though, and there are tons of guys that would love to be in the situation he's in.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. The 6 wins we’ve had since FSU won’t stack up to the hopefully 6-8 wins we get the rest of the way as far as competition level. The level of competition is about to go up-I don’t see us winning many of the brutal stretch we’re about to face without something from Devonte. Obviously hope I’m wrong but it’s just what I think.

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11 hours ago, Shooter said:

The only thing more up and down than Green's play, is IU fans' opinion of him.

A week and a half ago, there was a long thread here with people speculating he was about to be kicked off the team, and another thread with people posting lineups projecting him for 0-5 minutes per game going forward. The very next day he played 29 minutes and put up 19 PTS on only 8 FG attempts, with 0 TO in a win over OSU.

Now he's had two bad games in a row and people are down on him again. Knowing Devonte, that means he's due for a great game Thursday night.

So Devante is like a stock market. Or maybe Devante is worse than stock market. At least in the stock market, there's such thing as 'insiders'. But in Devante's case, Devante himself doesn't even know which Devante would show up. 

Edited by addictedtoIU

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12 hours ago, Shooter said:

The only thing more up and down than Green's play, is IU fans' opinion of him.

A week and a half ago, there was a long thread here with people speculating he was about to be kicked off the team, and another thread with people posting lineups projecting him for 0-5 minutes per game going forward. The very next day he played 29 minutes and put up 19 PTS on only 8 FG attempts, with 0 TO in a win over OSU.

Now he's had two bad games in a row and people are down on him again. Knowing Devonte, that means he's due for a great game Thursday night.

I can only speak for myself, but when he showed that again (and as a senior) he can't have a consistent degree of discipline my opinion is overwhelmingly down. 

Look, I can live with a lack of consistency, but it's more than that. It's the fact that he continues to do things he knows he shouldn't do. I won't go as far to say it's defiance, but certainly isn't innocent lapses in judgement. 

I can live with him missing an open 3 when his feet are set and it's in the flow of the offense. I can't live with contested 3's early in the shot clock.
I can live with a turnover every now and then. I can't live with the turnovers that are a result of him deciding to dribble into traffic rather than pass the ball first and let the offense find a better shot. 
I can live with mental lapses. I can't live with lapses in effort. 

The guy just tries to do too much. I don't care if we get 4 great games from him in a row. Unless he proves that he can play with a higher degree of discipline I won't be jumping on the Devonte bandwagon anytime soon.

 

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This is harsh, but Devonte is a poor man's Troy Williams. You cringe every time he gets the ball. The difference is that Troy hustled 100% of the time and never got down on himself. Green is a senior captain so when he is down, it affects the rest of the team. 

Edited by IndySportsPartizan
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Archie knows we can beat mediocre teams (Northwestern, Nebraska) without Devonte.

Archie knows to beat better teams we need Devonte. Not the 30 point Devonte of the FSU game (though that would be nice) but a good 10-15 points on 45% shooting, 3 assists and 1 or 2 turnovers (and not the kind where he's putting on his Curly Neal imitation and loses it or gets stripped...those drive me nuts) and a solid defensive effort (Devonte is a very good on the ball defender when he concentrates on it). 

And leadership.

Without him, we have to count on Al Durham, who's not quite as wildly inconsistent, but close, and a freshman who I think will develop into one of the best guards in the B10...but he's not there yet...

It'll be interesting to see how CAM plays this during this tough stretch...I like how he's coached through it so far though...

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I'd bet on seeing a good game from Green against MSU.

He's coming off a bad game and limited playing time.

Bright lights are on for this game. 

His perimeter D is going to be needed, he's an excellent defender when dialed in -- and again, we're going to need it this game.

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4 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I'd bet on seeing a good game from Green against MSU.

He's coming off a bad game and limited playing time.

Bright lights are on for this game. 

His perimeter D is going to be needed, he's an excellent defender when dialed in -- and again, we're going to need it this game.

I was thinking the same thing. Wouldn’t surprise me to see an FSU type game from Green

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4 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

I can only speak for myself, but when he showed that again (and as a senior) he can't have a consistent degree of discipline my opinion is overwhelmingly down. 

Look, I can live with a lack of consistency, but it's more than that. It's the fact that he continues to do things he knows he shouldn't do. I won't go as far to say it's defiance, but certainly isn't innocent lapses in judgement. 

I can live with him missing an open 3 when his feet are set and it's in the flow of the offense. I can't live with contested 3's early in the shot clock.
I can live with a turnover every now and then. I can't live with the turnovers that are a result of him deciding to dribble into traffic rather than pass the ball first and let the offense find a better shot. 
I can live with mental lapses. I can't live with lapses in effort. 

The guy just tries to do too much. I don't care if we get 4 great games from him in a row. Unless he proves that he can play with a higher degree of discipline I won't be jumping on the Devonte bandwagon anytime soon.

 

Devonte tries stuff. Sometimes it leads to great plays, sometimes it ends poorly. You're right, it can be frustrating. It's probably never going to change.

The other end of the spectrum is the way Phinisee was playing (until his last few games) - running where's he's supposed to be but never looking for his shot or doing anything remotely creative.

Unfortunately all of our guards have limitations. I think Green is well-suited to his current role as a scoring-focused combo guard off of the bench.

Edited by Shooter
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1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

Read that earlier. Agree all day. Wish we wouldn't assign the good or bad this...guess it's easy. Really hoping Devonte goes on a run here.

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1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

This is how fans actually can impact the team negatively no matter how many times people say otherwise...Over the past year we have heard from player after player about what a pressure cooker playing at IU is and such greats as Alan Henderson, AJ Moye, and Dane Fife have recently talked about how the negativity can weigh on players.

Fans never take an average player and make them better, (we simply cheer at their improvement) but I think that we are often responsible for taking and average player and causing them to perform worse...

Whether people like it or not, the culture has shifted and there are simply not enough old school hard headed players who have the ability to filter the noise to go around....Guys who played in the 90s didn't have to hear from instagram, twitter, facebook, snapchat and whatever else that they are terrible...The only voices in their head when they shot were their own and their coaches...

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40 minutes ago, mchenry34 said:

This is how fans actually can impact the team negatively no matter how many times people say otherwise...Over the past year we have heard from player after player about what a pressure cooker playing at IU is and such greats as Alan Henderson, AJ Moye, and Dane Fife have recently talked about how the negativity can weigh on players.

Fans never take an average player and make them better, (we simply cheer at their improvement) but I think that we are often responsible for taking and average player and causing them to perform worse...

Whether people like it or not, the culture has shifted and there are simply not enough old school hard headed players who have the ability to filter the noise to go around....Guys who played in the 90s didn't have to hear from instagram, twitter, facebook, snapchat and whatever else that they are terrible...The only voices in their head when they shot were their own and their coaches...

Without a doubt what you say is true but some just don't want to see it.

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Devante has roughly 2 months left of his College career, can’t we just wish for the best & root him on to finish strong?  I still believe (home games) he can win us a few that could potentially get us in the dance & besides did you all not notice at NE he was on the bench in the last 9 min?  CAM sees this so let’s relax & it’s beneficial to get behind a player like Devante and get the best out of him in these last 2 months.  I’m with the crowd that he will be a key contributor down the stretch & just may make Hoosier Nation proud!

Edited by BornHoosier
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