Notre Dame and the B1G

[rico]

I think we all know why Rutgers and Maryland are in the conference.  We could haggle as to the "why for's" concerning Penn St. and Nebraska.  But it is what it is and what we got.

Now to Notre Dame and the predicament they have their selves in and this year is prime example of it.  10-2 and no NY6 bowl.  Not being in a conference hurts them.  Notre Dame for oh so long had their cake and ate it too.  Joining the old Big East and now the ACC, but not for football.  Can't have that so the Padres think.  But they got left on the outside looking in this year.  Sure N.D. is a logical fit for the B1G.  South Bend is nestled in heart of the conference.  The Irish have established rivalries with some B1G schools.  But can the Irish handle a B1G schedule in football?  Or do they even want to?  My answer would be no to both questions.

So where does that leave the Irish?  I dunno but it looks like some sort of purgatory to me.  

Personally, I think they should have joined the new Big East for basketball and the other sports and just remained their football independent selves.

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 hour ago, rico said:

I think we all know why Rutgers and Maryland are in the conference.  We could haggle as to the "why for's" concerning Penn St. and Nebraska.  But it is what it is and what we got.

Now to Notre Dame and the predicament they have their selves in and this year is prime example of it.  10-2 and no NY6 bowl.  Not being in a conference hurts them.  Notre Dame for oh so long had their cake and ate it too.  Joining the old Big East and now the ACC, but not for football.  Can't have that so the Padres think.  But they got left on the outside looking in this year.  Sure N.D. is a logical fit for the B1G.  South Bend is nestled in heart of the conference.  The Irish have established rivalries with some B1G schools.  But can the Irish handle a B1G schedule in football?  Or do they even want to?  My answer would be no to both questions.

So where does that leave the Irish?  I dunno but it looks like some sort of purgatory to me.  

Personally, I think they should have joined the new Big East for basketball and the other sports and just remained their football independent selves.

I think they could handle a B1G schedule pretty easy,  Illinois and Indiana do and we don't have what you would call a great program.  They used to play several big name B1G teams each year but the ACC took those away.  The problem i see with them is the Armed forces teams they play and have for oh so long.  They would have to pick and choose which ones or play no other Non-Cons.

The bigger issue is that they are always on a NBC for all their home games i believe.  Major TV, not BTN or ESPN, but everyday everyone gets it national TV.  There is good money to be had just for them.  They get roughly 6mil a year, not counting what they get for being in the ACC/BE for football and basketball.  The B1G has to split roughly 60mil a between 14 teams which equates to roughly 4mil a year.  They would lose money and national exposure just to join the B1G.  the Notre Dame Broadcast Company (NBC) loves having them and pays them well.

Just my 2 cents on them, most of this is conjecture and speculation with a bit of research done. 

[rico]

3 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I think they could handle a B1G schedule pretty easy,  Illinois and Indiana do and we don't have what you would call a great program.  They used to play several big name B1G teams each year but the ACC took those away.  The problem i see with them is the Armed forces teams they play and have for oh so long.  They would have to pick and choose which ones or play no other Non-Cons.

The bigger issue is that they are always on a NBC for all their home games i believe.  Major TV, not BTN or ESPN, but everyday everyone gets it national TV.  There is good money to be had just for them.  They get roughly 6mil a year, not counting what they get for being in the ACC/BE for football and basketball.  The B1G has to split roughly 60mil a between 14 teams which equates to roughly 4mil a year.  They would lose money and national exposure just to join the B1G.  the Notre Dame Broadcast Company (NBC) loves having them and pays them well.

Just my 2 cents on them, most of this is conjecture and speculation with a bit of research done. 

Indiana is, well Indiana in football.  Say the Irish are in the B1Ge...you think they really want to go through that gauntlet?  I can see Irish fan now.  You mean we have to play at tOSU and at Penn St. and then we get Michigan and Michigan St. at home but we still have to play at Wisconsin and at Iowa?  

There is a Scott Frost comment in there somewhere.

[dgambill]

Why wouldn't they join the ACC in football? Get a payout even bigger than Nebraska did from the B1G (60 mil) to come? You tell me they can't schedule USC and Navy and a couple cupcakes to go with their 8 conference games? I don't think anyone sees Stanford as a must schedule just replace them with the smarty pants at Duke. BC is much more a rivalry game for them I think than anyone outside the ACC except USC. You want to really test yourself you can schedule a Michigan home and home every 5 to 10 years. I think it would depend on what division in the ACC they got placed in. As long as you avoid Clemson every year and get a shot at them in the Conference Championship that would work. ND has to think long term...as does the ACC. What if ND goes through another couple decades of 6-6 to 8-4 football....they would lose all their leverage. ACC has to look closely...what if Miami, FSU, and Virginia Tech continue to languish...a 1 loss Clemson means no one makes the playoffs. It's certainly interesting. Still...ND would mean more to the ACC then the opposite at the moment because of the television draw...but there could come a day where ND could easily become a Nebraska football program. I think the one reason both sides can live with the status quo...I think the playoffs will expand and both see making it much easier in the future.

[FKIM01]

43 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

They get roughly 6mil a year, not counting what they get for being in the ACC/BE for football and basketball.  The B1G has to split roughly 60mil a between 14 teams which equates to roughly 4mil a year.  They would lose money and national exposure just to join the B1G.  the Notre Dame Broadcast Company (NBC) loves having them and pays them well.

Just my 2 cents on them, most of this is conjecture and speculation with a bit of research done. 

I don't know why but I thought the league money was much bigger than that.

EDIT:  It is a lot bigger than that.  This article is going on two years old:

https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/big-ten-tv-revenue-distribution-reaches-an-insane-51-million-per-school.html

[milehiiu]

ND football is 23-5-1 all time against IU.  Last meeting was in 1991.

[IUaic]

9 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I don't know why but I thought the league money was much bigger than that.

EDIT:  It is a lot bigger than that.  This article is going on two years old:

https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/big-ten-tv-revenue-distribution-reaches-an-insane-51-million-per-school.html

Went from 25 Mil per school in 2013 to 36 Mil per school in 2017 then jumps to 51 Mil in 2018.

Rutgers joined in 2014. Is there a correlation between the new TV contracts and the added New York TV market?

[IowaHoosierFan]

47 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I don't know why but I thought the league money was much bigger than that.

EDIT:  It is a lot bigger than that.  This article is going on two years old:

https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/big-ten-tv-revenue-distribution-reaches-an-insane-51-million-per-school.html

Wow i honestly didn't know it was that big a number.  I stand corrected!

[IowaHoosierFan]

53 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Why wouldn't they join the ACC in football? Get a payout even bigger than Nebraska did from the B1G (60 mil) to come? You tell me they can't schedule USC and Navy and a couple cupcakes to go with their 8 conference games? I don't think anyone sees Stanford as a must schedule just replace them with the smarty pants at Duke. BC is much more a rivalry game for them I think than anyone outside the ACC except USC. You want to really test yourself you can schedule a Michigan home and home every 5 to 10 years. I think it would depend on what division in the ACC they got placed in. As long as you avoid Clemson every year and get a shot at them in the Conference Championship that would work. ND has to think long term...as does the ACC. What if ND goes through another couple decades of 6-6 to 8-4 football....they would lose all their leverage. ACC has to look closely...what if Miami, FSU, and Virginia Tech continue to languish...a 1 loss Clemson means no one makes the playoffs. It's certainly interesting. Still...ND would mean more to the ACC then the opposite at the moment because of the television draw...but there could come a day where ND could easily become a Nebraska football program. I think the one reason both sides can live with the status quo...I think the playoffs will expand and both see making it much easier in the future.

I mostly think it comes down to them being on NBC every home saturday.  They don't get pushed to another station regardless of how they are doing.

[Zlinedavid]

Here's what I've come up with for an "expanded but pure" B10.  And yes Scott, I'm calling it pure without a 20 game home/away basketball schedule. 😝

Football:
Pod1: Indiana, Michigan State, Purdue, Notre Dame
Pod2: Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan
Pod3: Northwestern, Penn State, Ohio State, Maryland
Pod4: Illinois, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska

Each year, you'd play the other three members of your pod, plus two other "permanent" games (call them rivalries if you want).  Then, on a rotating basis, you'd play the other 4 members of a different pod.  To allow for ND to keep more of it's traditional OOC games intact, I'd keep it at a 8 game conference schedule (hey, the SEC does it...).

If a protected game overlaps with a rivalry game, the two odd partners would face off on rotation.  Example, if the yearly matchup was 1 vs 2 and 3 vs 4, the Michigan/Michigan State game is already scheduled, as is the Illinois/Northwestern game. The first time they would pair up, Michigan would play Illinois and Northwestern would play Michigan State.  3 years later, they'd switch. 

Two best conference records meet in the title game.....even if they come from the same pod, which is theoretically possible.  

Permanent games:
Indiana: Illinois, Kansas
Ohio State: Michigan, Notre Dame
Michigan: Ohio State, Michigan State
Nebraska: Minnesota, Iowa
Minnesota: Nebraska, Penn State
Penn State: Notre Dame, Minnesota
Michigan State: Michigan, Maryland
Wisconsin: Northwestern, Kansas
Iowa: Nebraska, Missouri
Kansas: Wisconsin, Indiana
Missouri: Iowa, Purdue
Northwestern: Illinois, Wisconsin
Illinois: Northwestern, Indiana
Notre Dame: Ohio State, Penn State
Purdue: Missouri, Maryland
Maryland: Michigan State, Purdue

 

[HoosierDom]

I think the real answer is stubbornness. They like to think of themselves as special and there is nothing more special than being the only power football program in the country that isn't a part of a conference. As soon as they join a conference, they are just like everyone else. Their alumni were up in arms when the prospect was discussed a while back. I think the only thing that will ever get them in a conference is if the football playoff is definitively shut off to them: if they go to a conference winners only model.  

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Here's what I've come up with for an "expanded but pure" B10.  And yes Scott, I'm calling it pure without a 20 game home/away basketball schedule. 😝

Football:
Pod1: Indiana, Michigan State, Purdue, Notre Dame
Pod2: Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan
Pod3: Northwestern, Penn State, Ohio State, Maryland
Pod4: Illinois, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska

Each year, you'd play the other three members of your pod, plus two other "permanent" games (call them rivalries if you want).  Then, on a rotating basis, you'd play the other 4 members of a different pod.  To allow for ND to keep more of it's traditional OOC games intact, I'd keep it at a 8 game conference schedule (hey, the SEC does it...).

If a protected game overlaps with a rivalry game, the two odd partners would face off on rotation.  Example, if the yearly matchup was 1 vs 2 and 3 vs 4, the Michigan/Michigan State game is already scheduled, as is the Illinois/Northwestern game. The first time they would pair up, Michigan would play Illinois and Northwestern would play Michigan State.  3 years later, they'd switch. 

Two best conference records meet in the title game.....even if they come from the same pod, which is theoretically possible.  

Permanent games:
Indiana: Illinois, Kansas
Ohio State: Michigan, Notre Dame
Michigan: Ohio State, Michigan State
Nebraska: Minnesota, Iowa
Minnesota: Nebraska, Penn State
Penn State: Notre Dame, Minnesota
Michigan State: Michigan, Maryland
Wisconsin: Northwestern, Kansas
Iowa: Nebraska, Missouri
Kansas: Wisconsin, Indiana
Missouri: Iowa, Purdue
Northwestern: Illinois, Wisconsin
Illinois: Northwestern, Indiana
Notre Dame: Ohio State, Penn State
Purdue: Missouri, Maryland
Maryland: Michigan State, Purdue

 

So you are eliminating Rutgers from the league

[Zlinedavid]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So you are eliminating Rutgers from the league

God yes. 

[CincyHoosier]

Notre Dame will not join a conference unless forced to by a College Football Playoff rules change or some kind of realignment. Notre Dame has a national recruiting footprint and national TV exposure every week.  If they joined a conference they fall into "just another team" category pretty quickly.  They embrace what makes them different.  With the overall trajectory of the CFP most believe they will expand to 8 teams within the next decade.  This would only help ND stay comfortably independent. 

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

God yes. 

Love to do it as well but it won't happen so your suggestion is not realistic.

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said:

Notre Dame will not join a conference unless forced to by a College Football Playoff rules change or some kind of realignment. Notre Dame has a national recruiting footprint and national TV exposure every week.  If they joined a conference they fall into "just another team" category pretty quickly.  They embrace what makes them different.  With the overall trajectory of the CFP most believe they will expand to 8 teams within the next decade.  This would only help ND stay comfortably independent. 

it happened in basketball because in the 80's there were some powers who were independence.  Teams like ND, DePaul and I think Marquette was independent back then was successful but when TV took it over and the tournament expanded and became more popular .

[Zlinedavid]

1 minute ago, CincyHoosier said:

Notre Dame has a national recruiting footprint and national TV exposure every week.

15 years ago, that was valid.  Now....who doesn't? We've got a chunk of players from Florida.  In the last 10 years, we've had two starting QBs from California, one from Texas, one from Florida and we've got one from Utah waiting in the wings. 

Now if you want to draw the line between "network" TV and "national" TV, that's different.  But the B10 network is in 22 of the biggest 25 media markets in the country, including Los Angeles. If that means that 12 ND alumni in South Dakota aren't going to be able to watch, I don't think anyone is that concerned. 

7 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said:

If they joined a conference they fall into "just another team" category pretty quickly.

If you ask a lot of people, they're almost there anyway.

[Zlinedavid]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Love to do it as well but it won't happen so your suggestion is not realistic.

No more or less realistic as adding Missouri, Kansas and Notre Dame. 

[CincyHoosier]

Just now, Zlinedavid said:

15 years ago, that was valid.  Now....who doesn't? We've got a chunk of players from Florida.  In the last 10 years, we've had two starting QBs from California, one from Texas, one from Florida and we've got one from Utah waiting in the wings. 

Now if you want to draw the line between "network" TV and "national" TV, that's different.  But the B10 network is in 22 of the biggest 25 media markets in the country, including Los Angeles. If that means that 12 ND alumni in South Dakota aren't going to be able to watch, I don't think anyone is that concerned. 

If you ask a lot of people, they're almost there anyway.

I dont have time to do it, but go look at where NDs recruits come from vs virtually everyone else in the country not named Bama, Clemson, or Ohio St.  The bulk of the recruits for most teams are regional.  ND pulls them from everywhere, not just one or two, but consistently. 

Just another team that everyone either loves or hates.  That's not just another team, its polarizing and it draws eyeballs. 

[iuthruandthru]

8 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

15 years ago, that was valid.  Now....who doesn't? We've got a chunk of players from Florida.  In the last 10 years, we've had two starting QBs from California, one from Texas, one from Florida and we've got one from Utah waiting in the wings. 

Now if you want to draw the line between "network" TV and "national" TV, that's different.  But the B10 network is in 22 of the biggest 25 media markets in the country, including Los Angeles. If that means that 12 ND alumni in South Dakota aren't going to be able to watch, I don't think anyone is that concerned. 

If you ask a lot of people, they're almost there anyway.

If ND joined the big ten I bet those last markets would all pick up the network as well and it wouldn’t even be an issue.

[CincyHoosier]

I found the 2020 and 2021 recruits.  Pretty much coast to coast recruiting.  Then there is a German too. 

[iuthruandthru]

13 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said:

I found the 2020 and 2021 recruits.  Pretty much coast to coast recruiting.  Then there is a German too. 

When you said German i was assuming a kicker, but dang that’s a big guy lol.

[Andy06]

5 hours ago, HoosierDom said:

I think the real answer is stubbornness. They like to think of themselves as special and there is nothing more special than being the only power football program in the country that isn't a part of a conference. As soon as they join a conference, they are just like everyone else. Their alumni were up in arms when the prospect was discussed a while back. I think the only thing that will ever get them in a conference is if the football playoff is definitively shut off to them: if they go to a conference winners only model.  

Stubborn is one word for it, I call it arrogance. 

[dgambill]

7 hours ago, HoosierDom said:

I think the real answer is stubbornness. They like to think of themselves as special and there is nothing more special than being the only power football program in the country that isn't a part of a conference. As soon as they join a conference, they are just like everyone else. Their alumni were up in arms when the prospect was discussed a while back. I think the only thing that will ever get them in a conference is if the football playoff is definitively shut off to them: if they go to a conference winners only model.  

I agree...also look at their schedule next year....almost no true road games to speak. They play in NFL stadiums or other venues so they don’t have to play true road games as much. They love to feel special...when in reality they are a just another good but not great football program. They are the same as Michigan....great uniforms...historic stadium....iconic fight song...meh product on the field.

[dbmhoosier]

9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I agree...also look at their schedule next year....almost no true road games to speak. They play in NFL stadiums or other venues so they don’t have to play true road games as much. They love to feel special...when in reality they are a just another good but not great football program. They are the same as Michigan....great uniforms...historic stadium....iconic fight song...meh product on the field.

They don’t want to play a real schedule IMO.  The SEC teams will play 3-4 elite teams almost every year.  B1G schedules are close to that. ND maybe plays 1 plus a bunch of mediocre teams.