Jump to content

Guard Play...is it fixable?


Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I agree with you on the shooting but last night if we did not turn the ball over 16 times and got to the line our normal amount we still probably win the game.  I thought the crucial part last night was when we got up 22-1 and held Rutgers scoreless for the next 4 or 5 possessions but we turned the ball over 4 times.  If we could have scored 4 or 6 point sin that span that game might have been different.  also in the half court our defense was very good but we gave up to many fast break points off of turnovers.

True 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 188
  • Created
  • Last Reply
2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I disagree because I see most of the 3's as good shots off of our offense.  The only bad ones are the ones that DG takes when he tries those step back 3's.

Ok now that I totally agree with ( which he does with frequency ) and you cannot lump smith in as a guard but he doesn’t mind doing it either from any area of the floor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I disagree because I see most of the 3's as good shots off of our offense.  The only bad ones are the ones that DG takes when he tries those step back 3's.

Disagree with your disagreement.  We get terrible shots in our half court sets.  Normally, 2-3 good looks are passed up and then the shot clock runs down and a bad one is forced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, rico said:

I think our guards are good but they lack two important things.  1) Confidence and 2) Good decision making skills.  And with those 2 lacking comes a multitude of other things that add fuel to the fire.  

Totally agree.....I saw Justin Smith pass up 2 or three, three point looks from behind the arch as well as a few missed opportunities of just taking it to the hole inside the paint. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, rico said:

CAM is/has got them...they just aren't hitting at this level.  

Not really.  CAM's missed on several highly rated guards that would have been starting day one.  Rob is the only one of CAM's guard recruits that has proven his worth.  Damezi and Armaan wouldn't see the floor at any other Power 5 school.  Maybe by year 3 or 4 they end up as solid backups but both have a lot of work to do. 

Go Hoosiers!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, rico said:

Disagree with your disagreement.  We get terrible shots in our half court sets.  Normally, 2-3 good looks are passed up and then the shot clock runs down and a bad one is forced.

Like you said the players passed them up but the offense got those good looks to pass up.  I think it has more to do with the confidence of the players for the miss shots than I do the offense in general.  You know I don't really like the style of offense that is ran in college ball today but everyone runs pretty much the same thing.  The teams I see shoot well have players who will step into their shots and are ready to shoot when they get the ball and that is do to confidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

Not really.  CAM's missed on several highly rated guards that would have been starting day one.  Rob is the only one of CAM's guard recruits that has proven his worth.  Damezi and Armaan wouldn't see the floor at any other Power 5 school.  Maybe by year 3 or 4 they end up as solid backups but both have a lot of work to do. 

Go Hoosiers!!!

I think he was talking about quality shots and not recruits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, dgambill said:

Do we need a sports psychologist??

Another question for the board which I might have asked before are shooters made or born?  I think you can make bad shooters descent and average shooter to be good but I don't think you can make pure shooters.  I think you are born with the god given talent of touch and rhythm of your shot and to me you don't see many pure shooters nay longer.  I know Alford worked hard but to me no matter how hard you work if you weren't given that talent you won't ever be great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

Not really.  CAM's missed on several highly rated guards that would have been starting day one.  Rob is the only one of CAM's guard recruits that has proven his worth.  Damezi and Armaan wouldn't see the floor at any other Power 5 school.  Maybe by year 3 or 4 they end up as solid backups but both have a lot of work to do. 

Go Hoosiers!!!

And KBJ says hello........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Like you said the players passed them up but the offense got those good looks to pass up.  I think it has more to do with the confidence of the players for the miss shots than I do the offense in general.  You know I don't really like the style of offense that is ran in college ball today but everyone runs pretty much the same thing.  The teams I see shoot well have players who will step into their shots and are ready to shoot when they get the ball and that is do to confidence.

As I said earlier...confidence and decision making.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I thought you were saying we were not getting good looks because of the offense

This what I said...

Disagree with your disagreement.  We get terrible shots in our half court sets.  Normally, 2-3 good looks are passed up and then the shot clock runs down and a bad one is forced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Another question for the board which I might have asked before are shooters made or born?  I think you can make bad shooters descent and average shooter to be good but I don't think you can make pure shooters.  I think you are born with the god given talent of touch and rhythm of your shot and to me you don't see many pure shooters nay longer.  I know Alford worked hard but to me no matter how hard you work if you weren't given that talent you won't ever be great.

It isn't born...its honed. Don't get me wrong..you have to have some coordination but lets be real..touch and rhythm are about repetition. A person has have the mentality and coordination to sustain it but shooting is about doing it so often and so much in the same manner that literally your brain does it without you even thinking. Our guys are thinking...thinking WAAYY too much. Probably why they shoot well in practice so much better than a game. They look so tight in the game. It's also why they turn the ball over so much. They are thinking instead of playing on instinct...by the time they make a decision to enter the ball into the post and hesitate the angle is gone...the back door is past....the driving lane has shut down. Now....back to touch and rhythm...my opinion is that the best shooters not only practice their stroke often...but that it is an easily repeatable/duplicated motion. A short succinct motion with few extra movements and where the shooter has learned to square his shoulders/body to the basket. Do we recruit players with those skills already or do we take guys with gaps in their game and think we can improve them. I am with you on the second part...it's very hard to "reteach" shooting imo. To rewire the kids brains when 10-12 years of repetition is being decoded and replaced. It can't be done in season that is for sure...and I am under the belief even in one offseason....takes years. Time we just don't have unfortunately....which brings us to confidence. I've seen plenty of ugly shots but the kid has confidence because of the repetition he has had over the years (results) that I would never change at the college level due to time restraints of school, practice time, shortened season etc. Guys like Damezi, Jerome, even Romeo last year etc...they can shoot well enough to be effective at the college level. Their shots might not be text book but they have the results to show they are good shooters. At this point it's more mental....and IMO CAN be improved....now how we go about growing confidence to me is kind of the core of my question...how do we fix that....sports therapist....coach changing (encouraging shooting quicker/not passing up shots)...more shootarounds....different drills?? I do think there is a combination of confidence...and yes SOME of these kids weren't good enough shooters before they got here to expect the results we need. I am so interested in everyone's opinions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I said this in the game thread, and I'll say it again here.  Pick one of our assistants (not Roberts), get rid of him, and bring back the shot doctor, Tim Buckley.  I can't remember which one, but I saw a former player raving on twitter about how working with Buckley improved his shooting over the course of his time at IU.  Other former players liked the tweet so I assume they had similar experiences.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Parakeet Jones said:

I said this in the game thread, and I'll say it again here.  Pick one of our assistants (not Roberts), get rid of him, and bring back the shot doctor, Tim Buckley.  I can't remember which one, but I saw a former player raving on twitter about how working with Buckley improved his shooting over the course of his time at IU.  Other former players liked the tweet so I assume they had similar experiences.  

Heck, I don't see why we couldn't use part of that huge recruiting budget to bring him on as a consultant.  He (or anyone else) wouldn't recruit, sit on the bench or anything else within the scope of an assistant coach.  I admit I don't have any idea what the rules would be, but if it's an available avenue it's worth pursuing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Indy1987 said:

The guards absolutely get open looks.  They did last year as well.  The offensive system works but not having a guard that can throw it in the ocean kills us.  If I was a top high school guard I'd be jumping at the chance to play in that offense.   I'm baffled why CAM can't land one.

Go Hoosiers!!!

 

1 hour ago, rico said:

CAM is/had got them...they just aren't hitting at this level.

 

44 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think he was talking about quality shots and not recruits.

Looks like recruits to me. 

Go Hoosiers!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll weigh in and say good shooting is like just about any other area of development -- it's both a natural talent and developed through practice. Body type, muscle structure/development, hand size, arm and hand length, etc. all play a factor in shooting, along with practice, repetition, and the player's confidence (just as at the free throw line).

You can have a guy like, say, Vince Carter, who came in the NBA as a monster leaper / dunker, wasn't a shooter, but after his knee injuries took away that extreme athleticism, he turned himself into a solid-to-good shooter. That's an extreme example. There are plenty of guys who just aren't going to be good shooters no matter how much time you put in (e.g., Shaq, etc.). Most are somewhere in the middle -- I could spend my life working on my shot, I'll never be a shooter like Reggie Miller. Lol.

And to the extent we're talking college kids, guys who developed their games up to college as slashers and dunkers, and not shooters, can develop shooting, but it's the rare guy who can re-craft his game into a good shooter from a slashing dunker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can tell you what I think lies at the heart of two of our players (Smith and Hunter) shooting problems right now...

They're both falling backward (slightly) when they shoot...

I've haven't  seen too many good long range shooters with that technique (Rick Mount being one exception and he didn't consistently shoot it that way)...they're either straight up or leaning slightly forward...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

 

 

Looks like recruits to me. 

Go Hoosiers!!!

Sometimes guys struggle going to the next level...it isn't rocket science.  Highly recruited guys fail even when they are the pick of the litter.  Seems like some blame it on recruiting, but in fact the recruits are fine, they just aren't living up to expectations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, IUFLA said:

I can tell you what I think lies at the heart of two of our players (Smith and Hunter) shooting problems right now...

They're both falling backward (slightly) when they shoot...

I've haven't  seen too many good long range shooters with that technique (Rick Mount being one exception and he didn't consistently shoot it that way)...they're either straight up or leaning slightly forward...

Smith is not and has never been an outside shooter. It is not his game. Hunter can shoot, has proven it over years, but he hasn't gotten to the point, yet, where he's shooting within the speed of the college game with confidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Do we need a sports psychologist??

I'd go for it. A witch doctor perhaps. Yoga. Go to Japan in the off-season to study Zen and meditate on the top of Mt. Fuji.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. That said, I don't have any inside knowledge if CAM is or isn't trying different things; I just read that in a fortune cookie last night. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Smith is not and has never been an outside shooter. It is not his game. Hunter can shoot, has proven it over years, but he hasn't gotten to the point, yet, where he's shooting within the speed of the college game with confidence.

Your comment on Smith is more about shot selection, but whether Justin is an outside shooter are not, he's still taking them...and if he's going to take them mine was just a commentary on what I see as a basic flaw in technique.

I do agree that with Hunter there's an experience/confidence piece that will help. 

I remember reading an article about a great shooter (Ray Allen maybe?) that said he was in a slump. Turned out to be his off hand placement was a little off and it was skewing his shot. One little adjustment made a world of difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, rico said:

Disagree with your disagreement.  We get terrible shots in our half court sets.  Normally, 2-3 good looks are passed up and then the shot clock runs down and a bad one is forced.

If you count from the first half I lost track at 5 possession where we shot an outside contested shot with 5 or less seconds ...those are only a slight step above a turnover 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...