Billingsley99 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 50 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: All this complaining about our shooting is just BS, total BS I tell you. Our guys are great at shooting the ball. Excellent at shooting it making it is our only issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said: Shooting - yes Hitting - not so much..... 1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said: Excellent at shooting it making it is our only issue Our fearless leader begs to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 20 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Our fearless leader begs to differ. At the end of the day his is all that matters I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said: I've wondered the same thing. If they're lousy shooters in practice it would make the failure to bring in good shooters even more perplexing. My guess is that they are much better in practice. Gee, we miss so many close-in shots or layups that it's hard to believe we don't make them in practice. Going back to last season you have a guy (Fitzner) who had a history of making three's and was said to be quite accurate in practice, but was not a factor in game action. Some players may just have "stage fright", IDK. Damezi had 4 open threes last night, and at least one was wide open. He seemed confident shooting them, and he missed all four. Even a bad shooter can make 1 out of 4. And yeah, his form is a little weird, but Brian Evans had a weird shot, too. Rob had a wide open shot from about 12 feet, and missed. At one point, we were 0-13 from 3, and I'd say at least half of those were open shots. It's just bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: Damezi had 4 open threes last night, and at least one was wide open. He seemed confident shooting them, and he missed all four. Even a bad shooter can make 1 out of 4. And yeah, his form is a little weird, but Brian Evans had a weird shot, too. Rob had a wide open shot from about 12 feet, and missed. At one point, we were 0-13 from 3, and I'd say at least half of those were open shots. It's just bizarre. I think we are getting good open looks for the most part but just don't have the confidence or the ability to hit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierinbham Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 Really wanted that open look in the corner to fall for Jerome. You just get this feeling that once a couple fall, he's going to really get going. Maybe that's just optimism, but he and Franklin both have good looking shots. Hopefully it's just a matter of confidence. Not sure what to think about Damezi. His defense and effort have been much better this year, but his shot is flat and very quirky. I remember a stretch where Kyle Hornsby was struggling to hit shots, but you knew with his stroke, it was just a matter of time. I don't get that same feeling with Damezi's form. Hopefully he becomes a good shooter with an ugly shot like Wayne Turner from UK back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy1987 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I think we are getting good open looks for the most part but just don't have the confidence or the ability to hit them. The guards absolutely get open looks. They did last year as well. The offensive system works but not having a guard that can throw it in the ocean kills us. If I was a top high school guard I'd be jumping at the chance to play in that offense. I'm baffled why CAM can't land one. Go Hoosiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Zuckerkorn said: IMO, you've identified a major part of our problem (guard play). Fixing it would be the challenge. My answer is mostly NO this season. Too many data points to believe our shooting ability or poor decision making can be improved. In fact, I'm not confident any current players can develop into great shooters. The younger guys can improve their playmaking and defense. But dramatic improvement in shooting ability is not something to expect. Going forward I'd like to see Archie turn Jerome loose on offense - encourage him to drive and shoot. While his shot hasn't been falling thus far, he's allegedly got/had the ability. Try to get his confidence up - the other shooting options have had two seasons to get their act together and haven't - Hunter missing shots is no worse than Al, Rob, Damezi, Green, et al doing so. Beyond this season we really need to get an infusion of shooting. With only one scholarship open it needs to be filled with a difference maker. I'm still mostly in the pro-CAM camp, but his failure to bring in multiple quality offensive players (scorers) is confounding. i don't agree with Hunter missing 3s is any worse than Green, Durham, and Rob missing 3s. he is 4-30. Anderson is 8-42. at least the other 3 are shooting over 35%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: i don't agree with Hunter missing 3s is any worse than Green, Durham, and Rob missing 3s. he is 4-30. Anderson is 8-42. at least the other 3 are shooting over 35%. True, his % is worse (among bad), but Al & Rob have had multiple seasons to shine. Same with Damezi. Jerome can slash & drive. Open things up for him and try to get him going - if he doesn't rise to the challenge, reduce his minutes and opportunities. My point is that we need to have a scorer outside the paint. My impatience is behind the thought ("the definition of insanity" line). Whatever or if there's a cure to our scoring woes, it doesn't feel like the status quo is the solution. IDK. CAM is being paid handsomly and certainly knows more than I. I suppose our misleading (IMO) record prevents him from making a dramatic change. Again, IDK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 36 minutes ago, Indy1987 said: The guards absolutely get open looks. They did last year as well. The offensive system works but not having a guard that can throw it in the ocean kills us. If I was a top high school guard I'd be jumping at the chance to play in that offense. I'm baffled why CAM can't land one. Go Hoosiers!!! CAM is/has got them...they just aren't hitting at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 To answer the original question: is our guard play fixable? ...No. I just don't see a scenario where we all of the sudden our shooting percentage jumps up 10 points. Possible? Yes. Realistic? No. This season we are going to have to grind it out on defense every night, hustle and get to the line. Some nights we'll shoot really bad and lose. Some nights we'll just shoot moderately bad and find a way to win. At this point, I think that is our only recipe for success. I hate to be pessimistic, but there's not one person on the team I could count on to hit a wide open 3. Not one. I was listening to Assembly Call last night and Ryan Phillips brought up a sobering point. Our 3pt fg % has decreased every year. Not only has CAM not recruited shooters (which he admitted has been a mistake which I will give him credit for), but he hasn't developed shooters. It's becoming that time for him to look in the mirror and find a way to fix this. I don't know if it's bringing in a new assistant ro what, but this has to change. You don't win in college without shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 14 hours ago, Hoosier987 said: Would be fixed if we were able to get Lander...but that’s a big if. Not only is it a big if ...but are we sure another hyper athletic pg who is an explosive scorer is significantly different than our current situation ? I think he’s a fantastic player but I’m not sure he created for others any better than rob did his junior year of HS ...disclaimer: I say that having seen each player play only 2 or 3 competitive games ....do you get to see lander regularly ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 14 hours ago, Hoosier987 said: If our guards could only knock down 2-3 more 3s in a game...would make all the difference. Right but that’s the games we win ...and when they don’t ...we get last night ...our guards are athletic enough that if they aren’t hitting shots we should still be able to win games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: To answer the original question: is our guard play fixable? ...No. I just don't see a scenario where we all of the sudden our shooting percentage jumps up 10 points. Possible? Yes. Realistic? No. This season we are going to have to grind it out on defense every night, hustle and get to the line. Some nights we'll shoot really bad and lose. Some nights we'll just shoot moderately bad and find a way to win. At this point, I think that is our only recipe for success. I hate to be pessimistic, but there's not one person on the team I could count on to hit a wide open 3. Not one. I was listening to Assembly Call last night and Ryan Phillips brought up a sobering point. Our 3pt fg % has decreased every year. Not only has CAM not recruited shooters (which he admitted has been a mistake which I will give him credit for), but he hasn't developed shooters. It's becoming that time for him to look in the mirror and find a way to fix this. I don't know if it's bringing in a new assistant ro what, but this has to change. You don't win in college without shooters. Also have to look at ball handling when it comes to guard play and that is an area where when can get better and hopefully that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 13 hours ago, dgambill said: We just need someone that can knock down a couple 3s or even just a few buckets a game...someone to stem the tide when we are on these 0-12 1-10 shooting sprees. I guess at this point I’d rather dump it into Brunk and Trayce for 30 shots a game even if they are forced up contested shots because that’s still a better percentage shot then a wide open jumper from our guards. I honestly think they could shoot with their off hand and shoot as good a percentage. Problem is we CANt get them the ball ...literally ...I’ve never seen players or a scheme that has so much difficulty making an interior pass from the perimeter ...go back and watch the first half last night and when the announcer complained about it for the 500th time in the last 5-6 minutes they started hitting post players but tjd and brunk Had to extend well beyond fifteen feet ( sometimes almost to the top of the key ) before we could separate enough to give it to them ....if they catch the ball more than 15 feet out now they aren’t post players they are just guards who handle the ball more poorly than our current back court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 13 hours ago, FWIUFan said: Screw the infatuation with the latest "shiny new 5*." Take an unused scholly and use it on a cocky cold blooded sniper with high BB IQ from Indiana. I’m resisting the urge ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 13 hours ago, Hoosier83 said: Or a guard that can beat their man one on one. None of our guards are quick imo Even if not quick it just seems like no one other than rob dribbles with a purpose ...feels like al and green put their head down and have no clue what they are going to do if they do get a step on their guy then we see turnovers or forced shots . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 5 hours ago, rico said: I think our guards are good but they lack two important things. 1) Confidence and 2) Good decision making skills. And with those 2 lacking comes a multitude of other things that add fuel to the fire. Two specifically ...couldn’t agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Zuckerkorn said: IMO, you've identified a major part of our problem (guard play). Fixing it would be the challenge. My answer is mostly NO this season. Too many data points to believe our shooting ability or poor decision making can be improved. In fact, I'm not confident any current players can develop into great shooters. The younger guys can improve their playmaking and defense. But dramatic improvement in shooting ability is not something to expect. Going forward I'd like to see Archie turn Jerome loose on offense - encourage him to drive and shoot. While his shot hasn't been falling thus far, he's allegedly got/had the ability. Try to get his confidence up - the other shooting options have had two seasons to get their act together and haven't - Hunter missing shots is no worse than Al, Rob, Damezi, Green, et al doing so. Beyond this season we really need to get an infusion of shooting. With only one scholarship open it needs to be filled with a difference maker. I'm still mostly in the pro-CAM camp, but his failure to bring in multiple quality offensive players (scorers) is confounding. Right and I’m not side for the group he has was a poor choice from jump street or just hasn’t panned out the way he expected but shooting and IQ is gonna have to be put on the same pedestal as Athleticism if he wants a dependable back court ....when you watched Rutgers point guard you could absolutely see the difference within a couple possessions of what we have and what we need. You could literally see the kids wheels turning to create shots and every place he took the ball was with pace and purpose....scrappy kid ...gamer. Only time I’ll see him play this year and it just jumps off the screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Also have to look at ball handling when it comes to guard play and that is an area where when can get better and hopefully that happens. I'll give you that, but I'm more generally looking at the big picture. However, all our problems see to stem from a lack shooting. A) If our guards can't shoot, our big men suffer. B) If our guards can't shoot, we have trouble getting it into the post. C) If our guards can't shoot driving lanes don't open up. Heck, if our guards can't shoot a result of A,B and C leads to more turnovers and sloppy ball handling because we're always trying to thread needles and/or dribble into tight spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, AxnJxn said: I'd say this is clearly mental. You don't miss that many open shots, and some of those 3s last night were absolutely wide open, without it being something in the head. I guess the question would be are these guys hitting these shots in practice? They likely are hitting them in practice but practice and game competition are two pretty different animals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: I think we are getting good open looks for the most part but just don't have the confidence or the ability to hit them. Most of our open looks come from transition , offensive rebounds, or when we ALMOST turn the ball over and recover while the defense is scrambling for a possible turnover ...I feel like we don’t often get open looks from our sets maybe I’m just being cynical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: I'll give you that, but I'm more generally looking at the big picture. However, all our problems see to stem from a lack shooting. A) If our guards can't shoot, our big men suffer. B) If our guards can't shoot, we have trouble getting it into the post. C) If our guards can't shoot driving lanes don't open up. Heck, if our guards can't shoot a result of A,B and C leads to more turnovers and sloppy ball handling because we're always trying to thread needles and/or dribble into tight spaces. I agree with you on the shooting but last night if we did not turn the ball over 16 times and got to the line our normal amount we still probably win the game. I thought the crucial part last night was when we got up 22-1 and held Rutgers scoreless for the next 4 or 5 possessions but we turned the ball over 4 times. If we could have scored 4 or 6 point sin that span that game might have been different. also in the half court our defense was very good but we gave up to many fast break points off of turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, IU/Butler/Notre Dame said: Most of our open looks come from transition , offensive rebounds, or when we ALMOST turn the ball over and recover while the defense is scrambling for a possible turnover ...I feel like we don’t often get open looks from our sets maybe I’m just being cynical I disagree because I see most of the 3's as good shots off of our offense. The only bad ones are the ones that DG takes when he tries those step back 3's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 27 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: To answer the original question: is our guard play fixable? ...No. I just don't see a scenario where we all of the sudden our shooting percentage jumps up 10 points. Possible? Yes. Realistic? No. This season we are going to have to grind it out on defense every night, hustle and get to the line. Some nights we'll shoot really bad and lose. Some nights we'll just shoot moderately bad and find a way to win. At this point, I think that is our only recipe for success. I hate to be pessimistic, but there's not one person on the team I could count on to hit a wide open 3. Not one. I was listening to Assembly Call last night and Ryan Phillips brought up a sobering point. Our 3pt fg % has decreased every year. Not only has CAM not recruited shooters (which he admitted has been a mistake which I will give him credit for), but he hasn't developed shooters. It's becoming that time for him to look in the mirror and find a way to fix this. I don't know if it's bringing in a new assistant ro what, but this has to change. You don't win in college without shooters. Exactly correct prototype has to change and in the meantime we need to be able to be competitive and win games when we aren’t shooting well and that’s going to require a much higher assist rate and much higher percentage of shots in the paint to go with taking care of the ball and intensity the whole game on the defensive end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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